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Rangers interested in Nash: Part III

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Old
02-20-2012, 11:02 PM
  #801
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The Kreider gushing is so annoying. The kid who has never burned you, never gone pointless for even one game as a Ranger, never taken a bad penalty, slacked off on a backcheck. Classic case of the unknown being brighter than the known.

And I am 100% anti-Nash so I aint saying to trade Kreider. People's comments about him w/o any basis just irk me.

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02-20-2012, 11:03 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by StaporNY View Post
I think we should wait it out until the off-season and see what happens.
Our record this season is something special. This does'nt happen every year. We need as much firepower for a serious run leading up to and in the playoffs.

Now is the time to make a play for the cup.

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02-20-2012, 11:04 PM
  #803
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Richards has always been the type of point man that carries it into the zone and distributes the puck. He's never had a bomb from the point to begin with.
Yes he has.

Just watch any highlight reel of Richards. His one timer is very strong. He just won't use it.

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02-20-2012, 11:04 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
We should be comparing the 7.8 to whatever goes the other way (most likely Dubinsky). 7.8 compared to 4.2 is 3.6 million. Yes you're getting a better player in Nash, but that's also 3.6 million less you have to spend to resign Stepan, MDZ, McDonagh, Anisimov, or Sauer (if he's healthy).

Someone really needs to do some Cap analysis on this, citing comparable RFA deals as a basis for the kinds of raises the Rangers should expect to give to their RFAs.

Would you do a deal like:

Nash for Dubinsky, Stepan, JT Miller, McIlrith, and a 1st?

It's a lot easier to say yes to the above deal without Stepan but that's too short-sighted IMO.
If you're Sather, you hang up the phone and go back to your cigar if Stepan is brought up in a trade.

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02-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I'm starting to come around on him.

I friggin' love Nash - if we can get him for Dubinsky + prospects/picks, it's extremely difficult to say no. This is a 6'4 30+ goal scoring PF. He could put up closer to 35-40 here.

If management thinks they can work out the cap, I trust them. If this were 2006, I'd question it - but with people like Gorton and Clark in the organization, I trust mgmt more than ever.
This is where I - and I think most fans who've been in favor of the deal - have stood all along.

It's so funny. Both sides are setting up straw men. The majority of the anti-Nash contingent are arguing against a perceived deal that would involve some variety of Stepan/MDZ/McD plus other assets. The majority of the pro-Nash contingent are arguing in favor of a deal that is Dubi + picks & prospects only (and in many cases - such as my own - not including Kreider). Essentially we're coming out to very close positions... and yet arguing vociferously against each other.

I would be very curious to see the results of a poll that showed the following choices:

- 1) "Give what Howson's asking: 2 of MDZ/McD/Stepan plus picks and prospects - we need him at any cost!"
- 2) "Give Dubi plus any 3 prospects/picks he asks for - we need to pay up to get him, just so long as we don't give up more than one player from the current squad."
- 3) "Give Dubi plus one of McI/Erixon/Sauer, one of Thomas/Miller and a first - he'd put us over the top, but it's only worth it at a very evenly measured cost."
- 4) "Give Dubi plus any two prospects/picks not named Kreider - we can use him and we're willing to give value, but we're in the position of power here."
- 5) "Give MZA, Wolski, two mid-tier prospects and a 3rd - we'll take him, but only if it's 3 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel for a dollar."
- 6) "Don't acquire him even for a 7th round pick - that cap hit is going to screw us forever."

I'd wager the vast majority (like 80%+) would be voting 3 or 4.

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02-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
We should be comparing the 7.8 to whatever goes the other way (most likely Dubinsky). 7.8 compared to 4.2 is 3.6 million. Yes you're getting a better player in Nash, but that's also 3.6 million less you have to spend to resign Stepan, MDZ, McDonagh, Anisimov, or Sauer (if he's healthy).

Someone really needs to do some Cap analysis on this, citing comparable RFA deals as a basis for the kinds of raises the Rangers should expect to give to their RFAs.

Would you do a deal like:

Nash for Dubinsky, Stepan, JT Miller, McIlrith, and a 1st?

It's a lot easier to say yes to the above deal without Stepan but that's too short-sighted IMO.

We're going to have a little over $20 mil (not accounting for a cap increase) to sign Stepan, McD, Hagelin, Sauer, and Anisimov.

Now remember, if you need to you could always move Gaborik. He's on the last year of he's deal and teams would be lining up to take him. But I don't think it would come down to that.

And Nash for Stepan, Miller, McIlrath, and a 1st? No. Take Stepan out.

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02-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by GamerZX101 View Post
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

There will be absolutely no problems unless Sather gives out a dumb contract this offseason that interferes with the 2013 offseason where we need to sign a few RFAs. But besides that, we're actually in a very good position.
Not sure how you think the Rangers are in a very good position in 2013. If you subtract Duby and add Nash the Rangers have $20.68 million free with only 9 players under contract. Not sure what MDZ gets this offseason but its probably gonna be around $2 million/per subtract that number and you're at $18.68 million left. Still gotta sign McD, Stepan, Sauer, Hagelin, AA, a back up goalie and another 7 players to round out the roster. Not sure I would say thats a very good position

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02-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
The Kreider gushing is so annoying. The kid who has never burned you, never gone pointless for even one game as a Ranger, never taken a bad penalty, slacked off on a backcheck. Classic case of the unknown being brighter than the known.

And I am 100% anti-Nash so I aint saying to trade Kreider. People's comments about him w/o any basis just irk me.
Are you against Nash because of his contract, what you're afraid we'll have to give up, or the type of player he is?

Last time I checked, he does jump into the boards after scoring a goal. (I'm sorry I had to, I mean that in all good fun ).

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02-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #809
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Because our powerplay is so great right now. And adding him for free isn't exactly messing up team chemistry. Also he's played for team canada and has scored 50 points in 47 games or something. That's a heck of a lot more coverage than NY. Also the fact that he plays on Columbus for a horrendous team with limited talent is actually a plus for us. I can't believe I had to respond to this. He's a great player. There's no denying that. It's what we are actually going to have to give up that would be the reason not to do it.
Sure he has played for team Canada in small spurts, but I am talking about the day in and and day out pressures of playing for the Rangers. The kind of pressures that last from October through the playoffs. Not everyone can handle that. Nash has always been EXTREMELY talented, but he is the kind of player that doesn't always bring it to the table. He has had an inconsistent NHL career. The only reason he is a star at all is because of his ridiculous talent. Overall, considering his skill set, he has had a disappointing career. It's yet to be seen how he would mesh with anyone on the Rangers! By for "free" I meant no assets, just to clear that up, and that is because of his cap hit. Obviously for less money I would be game. The 7.8 for 6 is what kills it for me.

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02-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #810
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People say "Stay the course"

Guess what? We did that, and now it is the CORRECT time to go in "win now" mode, because we actually can win now. This is NOT like previous "win now" moves the Rangers have made that had ill-advised timing.

Basically that means pretty much all our prospects are on the table plus some roster players. I'm coming around to Nash coming to NYR, because that's a move that a serious contender makes. We are just that. Besides, it's looking pretty imminent at this point.

We can only hope and pray that Kreider is somehow spared. If there's anyone that can do that though, it's Sather. Dubinsky is 100% a goner though. Nothing happens without him moving. It's sad, I love him as a Ranger, and we all know he loves playing in a Rangers sweater. I really wish he took less money, because that's pretty much the biggest reason NYR is going to send him away. Simply a casualty of the cap.

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02-20-2012, 11:07 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
If you're Sather, you hang up the phone and go back to your cigar if Stepan is brought up in a trade.
What's the difference between including him in the trade or losing him to an offer sheet because we have too much money tied up in Lundqvist Gaborik Richards & Nash?

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02-20-2012, 11:07 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
This is where I - and I think most fans who've been in favor of the deal - have stood all along.

It's so funny. Both sides are setting up straw men. The majority of the anti-Nash contingent are arguing against a perceived deal that would involve some variety of Stepan/MDZ/McD plus other assets. The majority of the pro-Nash contingent are arguing in favor of a deal that is Dubi + picks & prospects only (and in many cases - such as my own - not including Kreider). Essentially we're coming out to very close positions... and yet arguing vociferously against each other.

I would be very curious to see the results of a poll that showed the following choices:

- 1) "Give what Howson's asking: 2 of MDZ/McD/Stepan plus picks and prospects - we need him at any cost!"
- 2) "Give Dubi plus any 3 prospects/picks he asks for - we need to pay up to get him, just so long as we don't give up more than one player from the current squad."
- 3) "Give Dubi plus one of McI/Erixon/Sauer, one of Thomas/Miller and a first - he'd put us over the top, but it's only worth it at a very evenly measured cost."
- 4) "Give Dubi plus any two prospects/picks not named Kreider - we can use him and we're willing to give value, but we're in the position of power here."
- 5) "Give MZA, Wolski, two mid-tier prospects and a 3rd - we'll take him, but only if it's 3 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel for a dollar."
- 6) "Don't acquire him even for a 7th round pick - that cap hit is going to screw us forever."

I'd wager the vast majority (like 80%+) would be voting 3 or 4.
I'll take option three for three hundred Alex.

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02-20-2012, 11:08 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by GamerZX101 View Post
We're going to have a little over $20 mil (not accounting for a cap increase) to sign Stepan, McD, Hagelin, Sauer, and Anisimov.

Now remember, if you need to you could always move Gaborik. He's on the last year of he's deal and teams would be lining up to take him. But I don't think it would come down to that.

And Nash for Stepan, Miller, McIlrath, and a 1st? No. Take Stepan out.
Plus 6 other guys. We're going to have no depth in 2013 if we're not careful.

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02-20-2012, 11:08 PM
  #814
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Yes he has.

Just watch any highlight reel of Richards. His one timer is very strong. He just won't use it.
I can only remember him scoring once on a one timer, and that was in the 2-0 game vs. Philly where he barely got anything on it and Cally was screening the goalie.

Although I would really like him to shoot more. He's got a very underrated shot, but was always looking to pass on that 5-3 PP abomination against CBus.

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02-20-2012, 11:11 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
It would help if somebody did a cap analysis like we had hundreds of with BR.

100% yes to Nash, but i'm at like 50% when it comes to accepting his contract.
Sigh. I did one last thread - I must be on your ignore list.

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02-20-2012, 11:12 PM
  #816
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I can honestly say I do not know what hockey site are reliable or what sources are reliable, but I just got a tweet back from Dennis Bernstein from The Fourth Period, and he just told me he is hearing and believes the Rangers are out on Nash.

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02-20-2012, 11:14 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by GamerZX101 View Post
We're going to have a little over $20 mil (not accounting for a cap increase) to sign Stepan, McD, Hagelin, Sauer, and Anisimov.

Now remember, if you need to you could always move Gaborik. He's on the last year of he's deal and teams would be lining up to take him. But I don't think it would come down to that.

And Nash for Stepan, Miller, McIlrath, and a 1st? No. Take Stepan out.
They have $20 million to sign those guy plus the OTHER 9 that fills out the roster. Did you forget about that?

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02-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #818
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We did stay the course and we're a great team because of it right now. The rebuilding phrase is over. It's time to win.

We're in a unique situation here. We have a surplus of young talent and we have a chance to acquire an elite scorer. All of this young talent isn't going to be able to stick. Look at Mats Zuccarello. Good player and all, but we just didn't have a spot for him. Obviously players like Kreider and the Miller most likely would have a long-term future here, but who knows if guys like Thomas, Borque, or Yogan can stick. If you can get Rick Nash, you try your best within reason to get him.

And we can afford to trade a defenseman right now. Staal, Girardi, McD, Sauer, and MDZ are all long-term pieces here. Losing McIlrath or especially Erixon isn't the end of the world. I like Stralman too and I think he could play a role here.

Look, I love Kreider and all of the prospects more than anyone. I don't want to lose any of them. But if we get eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round, we're going to lock back on not trading for Nash and regret it.

My first choice is to wait it out for Parise, but there's no guarantee he'll come here. If you can get Nash now without destroying our core or mortgaging our future, I say do it.
EXACTLY. I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

This isn't "should Sean Avery be demoted or not?" - we don't have to take absolute positions. There are very reasonable spots in the middle ground.

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02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
  #819
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Sure he has played for team Canada in small spurts, but I am talking about the day in and and day out pressures of playing for the Rangers. The kind of pressures that last from October through the playoffs. Not everyone can handle that. Nash has always been EXTREMELY talented, but he is the kind of player that doesn't always bring it to the table. He has had an inconsistent NHL career. The only reason he is a star at all is because of his ridiculous talent. Overall, considering his skill set, he has had a disappointing career. It's yet to be seen how he would mesh with anyone on the Rangers! By for "free" I meant no assets, just to clear that up, and that is because of his cap hit. Obviously for less money I would be game. The 7.8 for 6 is what kills it for me.
1. Nothing to show that he can't play under pressure.
2. Nash is extremely talented, and has never been surrounded by any talent.
3. He's scored 30 goals in 6 of 8 NHL years. (17 his rookie year, and 27 in '07)
4. Obviously, because he hasn't PLAYED here
5. His cap hit is large, but we can afford to have him and sign our developing players. We just can't sign Parise in the offseason.

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02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
  #820
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Not sure how you think the Rangers are in a very good position in 2013. If you subtract Duby and add Nash the Rangers have $20.68 million free with only 9 players under contract. Not sure what MDZ gets this offseason but its probably gonna be around $2 million/per subtract that number and you're at $18.68 million left. Still gotta sign McD, Stepan, Sauer, Hagelin, AA, a back up goalie and another 7 players to round out the roster. Not sure I would say thats a very good position
We'll have 9 forwards under contract (not counting any rookies like Kreider, Thomas, or anyone else coming up) and at least 4 defenseman (5-7 if you count a combo Stralman, Erixon, and McIlrath)

You're going to have a lot of young players making less than or about $1. There will be room.

Then the next offseason Gaborik's deal expires and you have all the room you need.

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02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
What's the difference between including him in the trade or losing him to an offer sheet because we have too much money tied up in Lundqvist Gaborik Richards & Nash?
He'll be one of the first players Sather gives an offer sheet to. Losing Dubi plus gaining Nash = adding 3.6 to the cap hit. Wolski being gone this summer subtracts 3.8, so you're left with an extra 200K. So you're almost back to where you started.

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02-20-2012, 11:16 PM
  #822
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While Nash would help, I would like to acknowledge that our 5 on 5 offense is probably the most underrated in the league....thank you

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02-20-2012, 11:17 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
He'll be one of the first players Sather gives an offer sheet to. Losing Dubi plus gaining Nash = adding 3.6 to the cap hit. Wolski being gone this summer subtracts 3.8, so you're left with an extra 200K. So you're almost back to where you started.
So what money comes off the books to give raises to all the RFAs?

Call me a worry wart but I don't think it's prudent to have $28.85 million in cap space occupied by 4 players (Lundqvist Nash Gaborik Richards)

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02-20-2012, 11:19 PM
  #824
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So what money comes off the books to give raises to all the RFAs?
Really don't feel like doing math right now, but here is our current situation:
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

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02-20-2012, 11:19 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
This is where I - and I think most fans who've been in favor of the deal - have stood all along.

It's so funny. Both sides are setting up straw men. The majority of the anti-Nash contingent are arguing against a perceived deal that would involve some variety of Stepan/MDZ/McD plus other assets. The majority of the pro-Nash contingent are arguing in favor of a deal that is Dubi + picks & prospects only (and in many cases - such as my own - not including Kreider). Essentially we're coming out to very close positions... and yet arguing vociferously against each other.

I would be very curious to see the results of a poll that showed the following choices:

- 1) "Give what Howson's asking: 2 of MDZ/McD/Stepan plus picks and prospects - we need him at any cost!"
- 2) "Give Dubi plus any 3 prospects/picks he asks for - we need to pay up to get him, just so long as we don't give up more than one player from the current squad."
- 3) "Give Dubi plus one of McI/Erixon/Sauer, one of Thomas/Miller and a first - he'd put us over the top, but it's only worth it at a very evenly measured cost."
- 4) "Give Dubi plus any two prospects/picks not named Kreider - we can use him and we're willing to give value, but we're in the position of power here."
- 5) "Give MZA, Wolski, two mid-tier prospects and a 3rd - we'll take him, but only if it's 3 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel for a dollar."
- 6) "Don't acquire him even for a 7th round pick - that cap hit is going to screw us forever."

I'd wager the vast majority (like 80%+) would be voting 3 or 4.
i err on the side of not getting Nash. and if we did, it would be choice 3.

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