HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Paul Martin for another struggling defender

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-20-2012, 02:32 AM
  #26
Jules Winnfield
I gives no ****s!!!
 
Jules Winnfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,852
vCash: 500
Martin was excellent last year. He and Michalek were a phenomenal pairing that would just eat up minutes.

This year, Martin seems like he's not playing as aggressive as he did last year, especially with his signature surgeon like takeaway stick on puck skills. He seems very apprehensive so far, not challenging, which has been leading him to be burned or screening the goaltender.

The truth of the matter is, because Martin is paid what he's paid, he's never going to please a lot of Pens fans. Martin has zero power on his shot and is just a playmaker on the PP when he gets a chance. We went from paying that type of money for Gonchar's bombs and PP capability to a solid two way defender with Martin that doesn't QB a PP.

I have no doubt he'll get back on track. Other than today's game with the entire team ******** the bed, he's looked much better the last 2 weeks.

I still would like to see him dealt regardless if he regains his form or not. I'd like to see at least one of Despres/Morrow in the lineup next year and I'd rather keep Niskanen if he'll stay at a lower cap hit since this will help the team with Neal's increase.

Jules Winnfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:33 AM
  #27
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,669
vCash: 515
It would have to be one of the teams on Martin's limited NTC so that would be important to know also. Cannot see him getting moved when his value is this low anyway, but Martin does control some of his fate which is probably important to remember.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:37 AM
  #28
DoctrSteveBrule
BrooksOrpeck
 
DoctrSteveBrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,945
vCash: 500
Paul Martin is judged by the number of turnover each fan can remember. He is by no means bad. He's had a subpar season but the "eye test" seldom works on judging defensemen and this is yet another case of people pointing out his mistakes and not recognizing his strengths. He's a GREAT puck mover. He skates the puck with authority. He uses his stick well in the defensive zone. His weaknesses are that he doesnt not bring any form of physicality and his shot is below average.

It's funny how people can attribute any struggles to a single player without first looking at system flaws, other teams performing well. or lack of chemistry for mismatched pairings. I'm clearly in the minority here, but i like Paul Martin and I like what he can bring to the table. He isnt playing well. He has improved but people need to stop acting like Paul Martin is the reason the penguins aren't 59-0-0 right now.

DoctrSteveBrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:38 AM
  #29
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Martin was excellent last year. He and Michalek were a phenomenal pairing that would just eat up minutes.

This year, Martin seems like he's not playing as aggressive as he did last year, especially with his signature surgeon like takeaway stick on puck skills. He seems very apprehensive so far, not challenging, which has been leading him to be burned or screening the goaltender.

The truth of the matter is, because Martin is paid what he's paid, he's never going to please a lot of Pens fans. Martin has zero power on his shot and is just a playmaker on the PP when he gets a chance. We went from paying that type of money for Gonchar's bombs and PP capability to a solid two way defender with Martin that doesn't QB a PP.

I have no doubt he'll get back on track. Other than today's game with the entire team ******** the bed, he's looked much better the last 2 weeks.

I still would like to see him dealt regardless if he regains his form or not. I'd like to see at least one of Despres/Morrow in the lineup next year and I'd rather keep Niskanen if he'll stay at a lower cap hit since this will help the team with Neal's increase.
Good post, agreed fully. I hope Martin can rebound and I thought he was playing a lot better since the all star break. The games where people really blame him, most of the defense and the over all team defense usually were at fault as well, hardly the one to single out in those games (like today's for example, like you said, the whole team was just crap defensively, no one seemed to care).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
It would have to be one of the teams on Martin's limited NTC so that would be important to know also. Cannot see him getting moved when his value is this low anyway, but Martin does control some of his fate which is probably important to remember.
His value isn't as low as people think it is. It's the constant whining some people in our fan base do about the guy that makes people think he's worse than he is. Everyone has zeroed in on him as their whipping boy (I too am guilty of that for 2-3 games this year but to be fair, he was really bad in those games, glaring mistakes that led to goals).

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:41 AM
  #30
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by millzee53 View Post
Paul Martin is judged by the number of turnover each fan can remember. He is by no means bad. He's had a subpar season but the "eye test" seldom works on judging defensemen and this is yet another case of people pointing out his mistakes and not recognizing his strengths. He's a GREAT puck mover. He skates the puck with authority. He uses his stick well in the defensive zone. His weaknesses are that he doesnt not bring any form of physicality and his shot is below average.

It's funny how people can attribute any struggles to a single player without first looking at system flaws, other teams performing well. or lack of chemistry for mismatched pairings. I'm clearly in the minority here, but i like Paul Martin and I like what he can bring to the table. He isnt playing well. He has improved but people need to stop acting like Paul Martin is the reason the penguins aren't 59-0-0 right now.
It is funny how people act like Paul is a turnover machine. I mean if you were to look at the guys that turn over the puck the most on the Pens blueline (and then look at the take aways, some make up for it and negate their GVA with almost an even number of TKA's).



Look at the #'s above. Michalek has been worse, yet he some how escapes the wrath that Martin seems to endure from our fan base.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:45 AM
  #31
AugustBurnsRed*
Invisible Calls
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 'Peg
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,503
vCash: 500
More Martin mistakes have lead directly to goals, and Martin makes more money, and Martin was put on the PP and made everybody pull their hair out. That's why Michalek is not judged as hard as Martin.

AugustBurnsRed* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:48 AM
  #32
Jules Winnfield
I gives no ****s!!!
 
Jules Winnfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
It is funny how people act like Paul is a turnover machine. I mean if you were to look at the guys that turn over the puck the most on the Pens blueline (and then look at the take aways, some make up for it and negate their GVA with almost an even number of TKA's).



Look at the #'s above. Michalek has been worse, yet he some how escapes the wrath that Martin seems to endure from our fan base.
Expectations.

The expectation was set by Shero and Byslma when they signed Martin that he would replace Gonchar. Fans only get that Martin and Gonchar are relatively making the same salary and Gonchar wasn't re-signed, and Martin was brought in with verbiage that he would play on the PP.

A lot of fans just stare at production as the only means for a player's worth. Since he doesn't score goals and he makes $5m per year, he must suck...yet last year, he was probably one of the most steady d-men I've seen in a long time for the Pens and a master at stealing the puck away.

Michalek on the other hand was brought in with the expectation he was a defensive specialist. Not much was expected with him on the score sheet. Like offensive lineman in football, as long as they do their job, they ride under the radar.

People expected Martin to get 10 goals a year here. Definitely not going to happen, especially with the Pens always playing 4 forwards on the PP unit.

Jules Winnfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:50 AM
  #33
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
More Martin mistakes have lead directly to goals, and Martin makes more money, and Martin was put on the PP and made everybody pull their hair out. That's why Michalek is not judged as hard as Martin.
Most of what you are saying could also be blamed on the coaching. Martin & Michalek aren't the duo that looked damn solid last year, they don't work together well at all anymore it seems.

I'm all for blaming a player if he deserves it, Martin included, but a lot of the complaints about Martin are misguided.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 02:57 AM
  #34
AugustBurnsRed*
Invisible Calls
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 'Peg
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Most of what you are saying could also be blamed on the coaching. Martin & Michalek aren't the duo that looked damn solid last year, they don't work together well at all anymore it seems.

I'm all for blaming a player if he deserves it, Martin included, but a lot of the complaints about Martin are misguided.
I'm not saying all the hate is logical.. just giving you some reasons, haha.

I agree that Martin-Michalek was awesome last year.. and it pisses me off to no end that they suck so bad this year. Even if they don't suck they're not really dependable. Last year I remember specifically giving pluses to Michalek and I would actually rave about Martin and defend his contract even then. I've never really had a dislike for the guy until a couple months ago when his mediocre play moved on from a "slow-start" to "awful season".

AugustBurnsRed* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:08 AM
  #35
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 4,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
Paul Martin is terrible and for 3 more years at 5 mill... I wouldn't even give Komisarek.

you may be able to get Wade Redden
lol, and Maple Leafs fans are wondering why they have a bad reputation.

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:11 AM
  #36
northernKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Maybe Martin to EDM for Hemsky? If Crosby can't return than Hemsky adds offense and Martin gives EDM a much needed vet to stabilize the D?

I remember LA being interested in him as an UFA so maybe Martin for Scuderi? Other LA fans may complain but IMO Scuderi has not been the same player this season and of course PITT is very familiar with his game. I would like a bigger deal bringing back Tangradi as well but not sure what PITTs long term needs are.

northernKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:17 AM
  #37
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 4,737
vCash: 500
I don't think Shero will trade Martin now at the deadline, but what would Sabres fans think about a trade around Martin and Leopold?

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:20 AM
  #38
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
I can't look at Leopold without picturing Sutton absolutely demolishing him.









Yup, still can't.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:23 AM
  #39
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 4,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I can't look at Leopold without picturing Sutton absolutely demolishing him. Yup, still can't.
and this is relevant because?

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:37 AM
  #40
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 9,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
and this is relevant because?
Leopold was ok the first time around, not sure I would want him back for Martin. To me, Martin is an off season move if Shero deems it necessary and in that case, it wouldn't be to get back another defenseman, but to re-sign someone we already have and let the others battle it out in camp. The return for Martin, at least for what I would hope in the off season, again if Shero feels he needs to move him, would be to get either a solid 2nd line player or a pick and prospect.

Also, if Shero is looking to add a defenseman, it'd be a crease clearer or a physical type, something this team is lacking in a big way. Not another swift skating defenseman. Leopold is a slightly more physical version of Martin, well also a better shot as well.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 03:40 AM
  #41
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 4,737
vCash: 500
sure, but Leopold is signed only for one more season, plus he has a nice shot and would do good for our PP. but again, I agree, if Martin is moved it's going to be in the off-season.

edit: to answer my own question, this type of trades almost never happens. Martin is the better defender, but he has three more years of contract after Leopold's one expires. how exactly do you balance this trade?

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 04:40 AM
  #42
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,459
vCash: 500
I agree that Ballard instantly comes to mind. Both players could arguably use a change of scenery.

Martin has been more bad than good, but some of the bashing is overkill because he's the Pens newest whipping boy. Staal used to be, but he's played lights out this season and shut people up. Now they complain about Martin instead. It's to be expected when you have a down year and make so much money though.

Captain Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 04:49 AM
  #43
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
 
Man Bear Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 8,921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
lol, and Maple Leafs fans are wondering why they have a bad reputation.
Martin is signed longer to more money. Komisarek becomes movable after this season when his actual salary drops to $3.5 over the next two seasons. Bad reputation or not, you'd rather have the cheaper, shorter contract not that I want either guy at those prices.

Man Bear Pig is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:20 AM
  #44
SIDGENO8771
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 View Post
Straight up for Joe Corvo.
I'd do it in a split second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Jan Hejda, who also has three years left on his contract, is a -19 playing for the Colorado Avalanche this season. The next worst +/- defenseman on the Avalanche is Erik Johnson (-6).
Could he be sent to the minors? If yes, then sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
The problem is he has no business being on the Penguins. He is a fraud. He is a product of the trap and our aggressive system makes him look like a fringe AHLer.

He could thrive in a trap-related system like Tampa.....

Paul Martin for Ryan Malone? Please?
I'd do it, but im pretty sure we have to add

Quote:
Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Maybe Martin to EDM for Hemsky? If Crosby can't return than Hemsky adds offense and Martin gives EDM a much needed vet to stabilize the D?
I think its good for both sides. Gives Hemsky a new start, and EDM a top 4 d-man.

I remember LA being interested in him as an UFA so maybe Martin for Scuderi? Other LA fans may complain but IMO Scuderi has not been the same player this season and of course PITT is very familiar with his game. I would like a bigger deal bringing back Tangradi as well but not sure what PITTs long term needs are.
Im all for it.
Martin + Tangradi + 2012 3rd/2012 2nd

for

Scuderi + 2012 1st

SIDGENO8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:27 AM
  #45
desmond
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,076
vCash: 500
Would pens amnesty him if possible?

desmond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:35 AM
  #46
Saints11
Registered User
 
Saints11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 172
vCash: 500
Martin's name comes up more because of his contract than anything else. Though his play hasn't been great, I think the primary reason people seek to move him in deals is because it frees up cap space to deal with the scoring wing issue. This you hear....Martin to Columbus for Umberger; Martin to St. Louis for Stewart, to Dallas for Morrow...etc. Has Martin's play been erratic, yes, but no more than others. The Pens because of their attack, attack, nature tend to expose their defensemen, who also often times get caught out of position; thus, the root of Martin's problems. Pittsburgh is not New Jersey!

Saints11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:47 AM
  #47
insomniac34
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
Martin's name comes up more because of his contract than anything else. Though his play hasn't been great, I think the primary reason people seek to move him in deals is because it frees up cap space to deal with the scoring wing issue. This you hear....Martin to Columbus for Umberger; Martin to St. Louis for Stewart, to Dallas for Morrow...etc. Has Martin's play been erratic, yes, but no more than others. The Pens because of their attack, attack, nature tend to expose their defensemen, who also often times get caught out of position; thus, the root of Martin's problems. Pittsburgh is not New Jersey!
dat font

insomniac34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:54 AM
  #48
RMBoner Stabone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Downtown Trenton
Country: Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
Too funny regarding the few Penguins fans blaming or saying that Paul Martin was a product of the Devils system. According to your house organ:

Ever since then, the 28-year-old blueliner had developed within New Jersey’s stingy defensive-minded system that made the neutral zone trap famous, meaning he had to adjust to Pittsburgh’s much more aggressive style of playing defense upon his arrival.

But Martin made the adjustment look seamless, thriving in a system much more suited to his style of play.

“I like it better than always being on the defensive side in Jersey,” Martin said of the Penguins’ defensive mindset. “(The Devils) have had success with that. But for me being there and now coming here, I definitely like the way that we play (in Pittsburgh).”



Paul Martin als frustrated the Devils fans, but it was funny to read how pundits said his career numbers would take off once he left a stifling Devils system for an aggressive one.

Devils trap, other teams just play responsible defense. Narrative since 1995 and it's funny to hear pundits spin what their flavor is different or similar to the rant.

RMBoner Stabone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:56 AM
  #49
Pens1566
Registered User
 
Pens1566's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: WV
Country: United States
Posts: 11,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No sense in making a move like that. Martin has played like a top pairing guy every year since the lockout except this one.

If he could be dealt for a good top 6 wing option before the playoffs or a good forward prospect over the summer, then that's an option that should be explored because Martin's skillset is redundant in Pittsburgh and there are a ton of good blueliners coming up through the system.

Unfortunately, the HF flea brains have trouble differentiating between an expendable asset with value and a salary dump. The idea of moving him for a different defenseman is just stupid.
There's too much sanity and logic in this post for it to get any notice here at HF.

Pens1566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2012, 08:58 AM
  #50
GM17*
ALL HAIL LORD FISH
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMBoner Stabone View Post
Too funny regarding the few Penguins fans blaming or saying that Paul Martin was a product of the Devils system. According to your house organ:

Ever since then, the 28-year-old blueliner had developed within New Jersey’s stingy defensive-minded system that made the neutral zone trap famous, meaning he had to adjust to Pittsburgh’s much more aggressive style of playing defense upon his arrival.

But Martin made the adjustment look seamless, thriving in a system much more suited to his style of play.

“I like it better than always being on the defensive side in Jersey,” Martin said of the Penguins’ defensive mindset. “(The Devils) have had success with that. But for me being there and now coming here, I definitely like the way that we play (in Pittsburgh).”



Paul Martin als frustrated the Devils fans, but it was funny to read how pundits said his career numbers would take off once he left a stifling Devils system for an aggressive one.

Devils trap, other teams just play responsible defense. Narrative since 1995 and it's funny to hear pundits spin what their flavor is different or similar to the rant.
Hey, it worked for Gomez Holik Gionta and MacLean

GM17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.