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Old
02-20-2012, 05:33 PM
  #51
NFITO
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
I personally would say that. But I haven't really watched him this year. Has he dropped? Because based on previous years, I would definitely put Malhotra ahead of Moen in terms of defensive/depth options.

Anyhow, my point was that I personally would have Moen higher than Lapierre on my team's depth chart, based on having watched both play a lot, and not only during their respective Habs' stint.
it's not that clear cut though.

How much *more* do you value Moen over Lapierre? We already have Lapierre. We don't need to give up assets to get him.

So, if your team already had Malhotra and Lapierre on the 4th line, with Bitz/Weise taking the 12th/13th spots, would you give up a 2nd+ to upgrade that spot to Moen?

It's not just adding Moen to this team... it's the price it would take to get him, and whether that's justified. It's not like we have an unlimited supply of 2nd round picks or prospects like Sauve either... if we move that to upgrade to Moen on the 4th line, that's an asset we lose to be able to upgrade an actual hole we have in the lineup - like defense.

Again, Moen is a very nice player, and if I could add him to our lineup at a cheap cost - ie, assets we don't need to use anywhere else to improve our team, sure... he's a tougher player than Malhotra or Lapierre, and we could use a big grinding body in the bottom-6.

However, our 4th line already has 2 quality PKers in Malhotra (one of the best in the game on the PK) and Lapierre... these guys have chemistry and fit on this team and in the locker room. They are versatile players - especially Lapierre, who's done a fantastic job of moving up to the 3rd line and playing in different positions and still playing a big role on the team. The need to upgrade that 4th line with a player like Moen (at the cost that he'd demand according to Habs fans) just isn't worth it for this team, regardless of him being a solid player that would improve our lineup... just doesn't improve it enough to justify giving up the few tradeable assets this team has, when there are other holes left to fill.

Btw.. as far as Malhotra's play this year, yes, it has dropped after his eye injury. He's still fantastic on the draws and on the PK, and still has a big impact off the ice (according to everyone on the team), but his 5 on 5 play has dropped from past years. On the flip side, Lapierre is a much better player right now than he's been in the past... his 5 on 5 play has significantly improved overall and he's become a key part of this team's bottom-6. He's just one of those players that never stops working, plays physical and does whatever the team asks. By far this team's best 4th line player this season.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:34 PM
  #52
Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by SelKesler17 View Post
Overpayment. Most I'd offer for Moen is 2nd and that's only if Raymond is traded for a dman. Moen would be fighting for the last wing spot on the 4th line along with Bitz and Weise. I'd probably offer 3rd + "meh" prospect (ie. Oreskovich).
Off the top of my head i don't know the Nucks 3rd and 4th lines...but Moen would absolutely not be "fighting" Bitz and Weise for a roster spot. Moen is head and shoulders above those two.

My first choice is to see the Habs re-sign Moen. But if that's not going to happen i put his value at a 2nd in 2012 with the possibility to get a bit more out of a team if there are multiple clubs showing interest.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:36 PM
  #53
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Moen might not even be worth the second, let alone a future top four defenseman in Sauve.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Let's just say that a SCF against the Bruins is a war that you win with players like Moen and lose with Lapierres.
HATE posts like this.

Lappierre had a game winner in the finals that gave his team 2 cracks at the cup.

He was a forechecking beast.

The Canucks did not lose because of a supposed lack of toughness.

They lost because Tim Thomas let in 8 goals in 7 games.

Moen to the best of my knowledge is no offensive juggernaut that you hitch your stanley cup wagon too, and hope he drags your there.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:39 PM
  #55
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Vancouver needs another Top 4 defenseman, not another forward.

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02-20-2012, 05:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Off the top of my head i don't know the Nucks 3rd and 4th lines...but Moen would absolutely not be "fighting" Bitz and Weise for a roster spot. Moen is head and shoulders above those two.

My first choice is to see the Habs re-sign Moen. But if that's not going to happen i put his value at a 2nd in 2012 with the possibility to get a bit more out of a team if there are multiple clubs showing interest.
Yeah, Moen would be a huge upgrade on Weise and Bitz. I don't think there's any question about that. He'd be a real asset in the playoffs and would improve any team. If the price was right I'd be real happy if we managed to get him. I get the feeling though that he may be in high demand by a lot of teams and that the price might be too high.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Off the top of my head i don't know the Nucks 3rd and 4th lines...but Moen would absolutely not be "fighting" Bitz and Weise for a roster spot. Moen is head and shoulders above those two.

My first choice is to see the Habs re-sign Moen. But if that's not going to happen i put his value at a 2nd in 2012 with the possibility to get a bit more out of a team if there are multiple clubs showing interest.
you're right... he wouldn't be fighting for a 4th line spot... he's clearly ahead of Bitz/Weise.

That makes him the #12 forward on the Canucks... their current bottom-6 is:

Higgins-Hodgson-Hansen
Malhotra-Lapierre-Bitz
Weise

Can't see Gillis giving up a 2nd round pick to upgrade his #12 forward spot. Moen might be worth that to other teams, that's just too high a price to add a rental to improve your #12 forward spot though.

Bitz and Weise have also both been pretty solid for the Canucks this year (Bitz's injuries not withstanding).... there's little need to upgrade this area of the roster for the Canucks.

Their priorities - and any trade assets they have available - should be in play right now to improve the defensive depth... this team needs a bottom-pairing guy to push Rome to the #7 spot, and adding insurance for Salo's inevitable injuries (we know there's another one coming soon). If we can add a player like Aucoin (who does both of that), we're set going into the playoffs. This is a *MUCH* bigger area of concern than improving on Bitz and Weise.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
HATE posts like this.

Lappierre had a game winner in the finals that gave his team 2 cracks at the cup.

He was a forechecking beast.

The Canucks did not lose because of a supposed lack of toughness.

They lost because Tim Thomas let in 8 goals in 7 games.

Moen to the best of my knowledge is no offensive juggernaut that you hitch your stanley cup wagon too, and hope he drags your there.
I think Habs fans just remember Lapierre from his days with the Habs, and refuse to believe he can be any different of a player now.

I can't think of a single Canucks fan I've talked to that is at all disappointed with Lapierre's performance as a Canuck. I think he's exceeded *everyone's* expectations from when we first got him.

Lapierre is easily this team's best 4th line player and was a huge asset in the playoffs, stepping into the 3rd line center role (a key role in the playoffs) due to Manny's injury, and again exceeded everyone's expectations in that role. He was solid in the playoffs and a huge asset for this team... Habs fans can't get over his level of play when he was there in the past... he's been an entirely different player as a Canuck.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #59
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GM's overpay at the deadline for players with Stanley Cup rings. Don't know why this would be an exception.

He's just as valuable as Hal Gill for me. In fact he was a driving force with Plekanec on the first PK wave before his injury and we all know how decent that PK is.

2nd round pick (if it's a later pick) and a long term prospect is not out of the question in my mind.

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #60
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rather keep Moen. elite PKer and tough...we have 2, 2nds in next two drafts. sign him Gauthier

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #61
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So, how about next year's 2nd and this year's Isles 4th?

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Old
02-20-2012, 05:53 PM
  #62
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
GM's overpay at the deadline for players with Stanley Cup rings. Don't know why this would be an exception.

He's just as valuable as Hal Gill for me. In fact he was a driving force with Plekanec on the first PK wave before his injury and we all know how decent that PK is.

2nd round pick (if it's a later pick) and a long term prospect is not out of the question in my mind.
You could well be right as he would be great to have for the playoffs. If that's the case then I could see one of the other contenders trading for him. Vancouver has other areas where they should be spending those assets.

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02-20-2012, 05:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SuperSwede21 View Post
Vancouver needs another Top 4 defenseman, not another forward.
Canucks top 4 defenseman is pretty solid. The only way adding anyone is an upgrade is by getting an elite defenseman like Shea Weber, Zdeno Chara or Nicklas Lidstrom, and that's not likely to happen any time soon.

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02-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #64
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NYI 4th and our 4th pick.

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02-20-2012, 05:58 PM
  #65
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Moen will get a 2nd round pick. Thats the going rate for bottom 6 players.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #66
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You could well be right as he would be great to have for the playoffs. If that's the case then I could see one of the other contenders trading for him. Vancouver has other areas where they should be spending those assets.
Most likely going to re-sign since he's the type of players this team seems to be getting and keeping. It appears like Montreal is going to be a crash and bang, cycle team going forward and he fits the bill for that.

However a 3rd line of Moen-Malhotra-Higgins would be a pretty darn good shut down line in the playoffs.

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02-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #67
NFITO
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
So, how about next year's 2nd and this year's Isles 4th?
as a last minute deal on deadline day if nothing else comes up, especially the much needed defense help, then I'd do it.

I like Moen and would love to see him on this team for a playoff run. But the Canucks have limited available assets overall, and a pretty poor farm system as well. The few assets they have of any value, I'd rather use to a) fill holes, b) upgrade more impact positions, and then finally c) upgrade depth positions. Moen fills the smallest need for the Canucks right now.

Moen will have more value to a team who's top priority is filling their bottom-6 spots. A team like perhaps Chicago, who have more tradeable assets, and a bigger need to fill the type of spot Moen can fill. I doubt the Canucks could out-bid them for Moen's services. For the Canucks, I'd try and improve the team's defense first. Too bad Gorges re-signed with you guys ... he'd be the perfect trade deadline pickup for the Canucks (other than the left hand shot). BC boy as well.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:19 PM
  #68
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Overpayment for an over 30 4th line forward. The Canucks got Chris Higgins, Max Lapierre and Andrew Alberts for essentially 3rd round picks. Can't see the Gillis giving up more than a 4th for Moen.
Moen is 29 and because of his defensive game he is clearly a third liner. Hell he was a third liner in a cup winning team.

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02-20-2012, 06:24 PM
  #69
NFITO
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Canucks top 4 defenseman is pretty solid. The only way adding anyone is an upgrade is by getting an elite defenseman like Shea Weber, Zdeno Chara or Nicklas Lidstrom, and that's not likely to happen any time soon.
Canucks top-4 is solid when healthy... but you can't bank on Salo at all to stay healthy.

The Canucks need a 2nd pairing right side guy... someone who plays on the 3rd pairing regularly, and jumps in for Salo when he gets hurt - and we all know he'll get hurt at some point again (likely multiple times if we go through a long playoff run).

Tanev is a solid #6 guy now, but he's not ready to jump into the top-4, especially in the playoffs. He's likely Salo's replacement as early as next season though.

I'd love to add a dman like Aucoin... he's basically a more durable Salo. That's the last piece this team needs to add for a long playoff run IMO. Though knowing Gillis, he'll target someone younger who he can re-sign past this season.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:25 PM
  #70
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Most likely going to re-sign since he's the type of players this team seems to be getting and keeping. It appears like Montreal is going to be a crash and bang, cycle team going forward and he fits the bill for that.

However a 3rd line of Moen-Malhotra-Higgins would be a pretty darn good shut down line in the playoffs.
I think we'll probably have Malhotra on the fourth. He appears to have lost some of his offensive skill and five on five shutdown play since the eye injury. I also suspect we'll see Higgins up with Booth and Kesler as that line was playing well before Higgins has had some pretty serious issues with staph infections. That's probably a hybrid shutdown/offensive line. Kesler usually gets the top guy on the other team to cover.
Our third line really a bit of a hybrid too with a good shutdown player in Hansen, a young offensive player in Hodgson and either Raymond or Higgins rounding out the third spot.
I'd guess that Moen would rotate between the fourth and third line depending on who we're playing ie if we need a shutdown third line we'd move him up.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:28 PM
  #71
Zack Kassian
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No thank you.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:29 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I think we'll probably have Malhotra on the fourth. He appears to have lost some of his offensive skill and five on five shutdown play since the eye injury. I also suspect we'll see Higgins up with Booth and Kesler as that line was playing well before Higgins has had some pretty serious issues with staph infections. That's probably a hybrid shutdown/offensive line. Kesler usually gets the top guy on the other team to cover.
Our third line really a bit of a hybrid too with a good shutdown player in Hansen, a young offensive player in Hodgson and either Raymond or Higgins rounding out the third spot.
I'd guess that Moen would rotate between the fourth and third line depending on who we're playing ie if we need a shutdown third line we'd move him up.
I guess you've missed the last few games.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:34 PM
  #73
vanwest
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Originally Posted by LorenzoVonMatterhorn View Post
I guess you've missed the last few games.
No. He's looked better on the offensive side. He hasn't yet returned to the form he showed last year where he was a shutdown third line center. Still a very valuable player. Maybe we'll see him continue to improve. That was a pretty serious injury.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:40 PM
  #74
Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
you're right... he wouldn't be fighting for a 4th line spot... he's clearly ahead of Bitz/Weise.

That makes him the #12 forward on the Canucks... their current bottom-6 is:

Higgins-Hodgson-Hansen
Malhotra-Lapierre-Bitz
Weise

Can't see Gillis giving up a 2nd round pick to upgrade his #12 forward spot. Moen might be worth that to other teams, that's just too high a price to add a rental to improve your #12 forward spot though.

Bitz and Weise have also both been pretty solid for the Canucks this year (Bitz's injuries not withstanding).... there's little need to upgrade this area of the roster for the Canucks.

Their priorities - and any trade assets they have available - should be in play right now to improve the defensive depth... this team needs a bottom-pairing guy to push Rome to the #7 spot, and adding insurance for Salo's inevitable injuries (we know there's another one coming soon). If we can add a player like Aucoin (who does both of that), we're set going into the playoffs. This is a *MUCH* bigger area of concern than improving on Bitz and Weise.
Can't disagree with anything you just said there.

Assuming Bob McKenzie's got good info (which im sure he does) looks like the Habs are going to look to keep and re-sign Moen which IMO is the right play for them.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:42 PM
  #75
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To Vancouver: Travis Moen

To Montreal: 2012 second rounder, prospect Yann Sauve.

Close?
Maybe add on Tanev

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