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Sweet young package for 2nd overall

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:55 PM
  #76
Seachd
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
What a terrible analogy. I could say you don't buy gold bars when you need steel to finish constructing your machine.

Let's be real here. If you guys drafted the last 12 top forwards of the last 12 drafts you would still want Grigorenko. Being exposed to so many high draft picks you guys have stars in your eyes. I've seen you guys talk about potentially even drafting Mackinnon or Barkov next year. It's all about compiling stars because MAYBE just maybe, everyone is going to love your team like the Gretzky heyday. I mean. Who knows where Mackinnon and Barkov will be ranked next year? You really don't know. But you gotta have the stars...you gotta have em. Monopolize the draft. The more stars you have the more attention you get. Profit. It's all fun and games until you notice how bad your defense is. None of this is bashing, but I think Edmonton fans are the only fanbase who would be confident in a Whitney, Sutton, Petry, Marincin, Klefbom, Teubert, Gernat etc. Blueline. I personally would be terrified for my team's future. I'm already uneasy with our group of Fowler, Beauchemin, Sbisa, Vatanen, Schultz, Clark, Guenin, Brookbank. I'm hoping for a guy like Trouba, Reinhart, or Ceci to round it out. But you guys can make all the excuses you want. It's not going to be a fun decade coming up for you. Unless you're organization suddenly develops some Free Agency skills.
Uh... huh?

You realize there are more ways to acquire players than just the draft, right?

I don't think it's up to you to tell Oiler fans how fun the next decade is going to be because they take a potential franchise forward instead of a d-man.

I'm looking forward to the next decade with this team. "Fun" sounds like the exact word to describe it.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:55 PM
  #77
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is edmonton afraid of drafting a russian?

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Old
02-21-2012, 01:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
About 6 months difference, big deal.
It is a big difference when you are talking about development years.

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02-21-2012, 01:11 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Why do you care so much about what the Oilers do? You do this in every Oilers related thread regarding the draft. I don't get it.
I honestly don't know myself. Probably all the time I spent criticizing the LA Kings with their re-build strategy. I mean. There's a perfect example. They even focused on defense. It didn't do them any good. They're just not lottery diving anymore.

And maybe because I actually care about what happens to guys I've been researching in recent drafts (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Klefbom) I really don't like any team to be mediocre for so long. In a way, my crazy concern can be interpreted as me pulling for you to finally turn this **** around. I honestly feel bad for the fanbase. I know I'd be miserable to have to wait so long for things to get better...and I did. As a fan of the Ducks since 1997 I know what it's like. And I'm giving my opinions based on personal experience. The Ducks couldn't win a cup without a solid line-up and a great blueline and goaltender. They didn't have any superstars other than Selanne. McDonald was having a career year I suppose, Getzlaf and Perry were still developing. They couldn't have won without Niedermayer and Pronger. Or Giguere. Or the shut-down line of Pahlsson, Moen, and Niedermayer. They didn't win on the back of a stockpile of offensive stars.

And I don't see the Oilers ever going far until they balance out their roster. I don't see Bunz or Perhonen being quality starting goalies. I barely see John Gibson as an improvement over our situation in Anaheim and he's one of the OHL's top goaltenders.

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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
Uh... huh?

You realize there are more ways to acquire players than just the draft, right?

I don't think it's up to you to tell Oiler fans how fun the next decade is going to be because they take a potential franchise forward instead of a d-man.

I'm looking forward to the next decade with this team. "Fun" sounds like the exact word to describe it.
I'm very well aware. What was your last major acquisition through trade? Ryan Whitney? You gave up last year's top producing defenseman to get it. I don't care how you rationalize it, that was a downgrade and Ducks fans are forever grateful for that one. It doesn't really seem like the phones are going off the hooks in Edmonton. And UFAs don't want to go there. No one wants to pull a sinking ship out of the sea. Respect to the few that do.


Last edited by DuckJet: 02-21-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old
02-21-2012, 01:19 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ArrogantOwl View Post
I'd do JVR and a 1st from the Flyer's perspective.
Respectfully declined. JVR isn't enough to move up ~20 spots, especially to #2

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02-21-2012, 01:23 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I honestly don't know myself. Probably all the time I spent criticizing the LA Kings with their re-build strategy. I mean. There's a perfect example. They even focused on defense. It didn't do them any good. They're just not lottery diving anymore.

And maybe because I actually care about what happens to guys I've been researching in recent drafts (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Klefbom) I really don't like any team to be mediocre for so long. In a way, my crazy concern can be interpreted as me pulling for you to finally turn this **** around. I honestly feel bad for the fanbase. I know I'd be miserable to have to wait so long for things to get better...and I did. As a fan of the Ducks since 1997 I know what it's like. And I'm giving my opinions based on personal experience. The Ducks couldn't win a cup without a solid line-up and a great blueline and goaltender. They didn't have any superstars other than Selanne. McDonald was having a career year I suppose, Getzlaf and Perry were still developing. They couldn't have won without Niedermayer and Pronger. Or Giguere. Or the shut-down line of Pahlsson, Moen, and Niedermayer. They didn't win on the back of a stockpile of offensive stars. And I don't see the Oilers ever going far until they balance out their roster.
Understood but there are other ways to bring in defensemen outside of the draft.
If Grigorenko is the best player on the board at #2 which it appears he is then the Oilers would be stupid to not draft him or at the very least trade down a few spots and gain some assets. When you're talking about Top 3 in the draft, BPA is generally the smart way to go then worry about picking up defensemen later in the draft or through trade or free agency.

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02-21-2012, 01:27 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by oilWILDcountry View Post
Respectfully declined. JVR isn't enough to move up ~20 spots, especially to #2
Lol if it's not Pacioretty being overrated, it's JVR. I would do JVR for Grigorenko in a heart-beat. I would do Ryan for Grigorenko in a heartbeat.

Sure he's not a sure thing, but even if he shows signs of busting, you move him while he still has value. Especially if you're Philly. You have so much forward talent there, JVR is very much expendable, and teams will pay a considerable amount to get Mikhail as a reclamation project. You can't really lose there.

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02-21-2012, 01:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Understood but there are other ways to bring in defensemen outside of the draft.
If Grigorenko is the best player on the board at #2 which it appears he is then the Oilers would be stupid to not draft him or at the very least trade down a few spots and gain some assets. When you're talking about Top 3 in the draft, BPA is generally the smart way to go then worry about picking up defensemen later in the draft or through trade or free agency.
I agree. And I did say that drafting Mikhail and then trading assets for another top 10 pick would be the best way to go. If you guys can nab a guy like Trouba, Dumba, or Reinhart, it would go a long way in making the team better long term.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
MPS-Grigorenko-Hemsky

Whitney-Petry
Trouba/Dumba/Reinhart-Klefbom (I'm a firm believer that you have the best success when you have one physical D and one offensive D on a pairing, and this pair would be awesome)

I really only get irritated at the fans who are hoping for Mackinnon, Monahan, or Barkov next year, and can't wait until a 2014 front-runner emerges so they can photo-shop them into an Oilers jersey. There are those of you who can't wait for the re-build to end, and think rationally when they say BPA no matter what. And then there are those who just want to stockpile as many big names as possible and will just imitate the rational arguments to justify their mania. I saw the same thing with LA Kings fans only worse. They would talk about trading away all their pieces just to move up one spot and draft Stamkos. Same thing with Kane (they really got screwed by the lottery system). And they haven't changed since then. Every time a big name comes up in the trade market, they pray to the hockey gods that Lombardi trades for them. Another part of my concern is that I don't want to see another fanbase become so starstruck like that. It's annoying enough from them. Every single year they talk about how they need to trade the players they literally just acquired. It's like they're all playing NHL 12. I have respect for this team, it's history, and the patience of it's fanbase. I don't want to see them get involved in that star mania NHL 12 mind set.

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Old
02-21-2012, 01:40 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I agree. And I did say that drafting Mikhail and then trading assets for another top 10 pick would be the best way to go. If you guys can nab a guy like Trouba, Dumba, or Reinhart, it would go a long way in making the team better long term.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
MPS-Grigorenko-Hemsky

Whitney-Petry
Trouba/Dumba/Reinhart-Klefbom (I'm a firm believer that you have the best success when you have one physical D and one offensive D on a pairing, and this pair would be awesome)

I really only get irritated at the fans who are hoping for Mackinnon, Monahan, or Barkov next year, and can't wait until a 2014 front-runner emerges so they can photo-shop them into an Oilers jersey. There are those of you who can't wait for the re-build to end, and think rationally when they say BPA no matter what. And then there are those who just want to stockpile as many big names as possible and will just imitate the rational arguments to justify their mania. I saw the same thing with LA Kings fans only worse. They would talk about trading away all their pieces just to move up one spot and draft Stamkos. Same thing with Kane (they really got screwed by the lottery system). And they haven't changed since then. Every time a big name comes up in the trade market, they pray to the hockey gods that Lombardi trades for them. Another part of my concern is that I don't want to see another fanbase become so starstruck like that. It's annoying enough from them. Every single year they talk about how they need to trade the players they literally just acquired. It's like they're all playing NHL 12. I have respect for this team, it's history, and the patience of it's fanbase. I don't want to see them get involved in that star mania NHL 12 mind set.
We've already lost a few to this unfortunately.

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Old
02-21-2012, 01:41 PM
  #85
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Value-wise: of course patches + 1st is fair. For the habsthough , they'd have to think about it long and hard
Which year? To move up 3 spots??? Come on.

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02-21-2012, 01:52 PM
  #86
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Worst title ever.

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02-21-2012, 01:56 PM
  #87
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Which year? To move up 3 spots??? Come on.
Agreed. Plus the Oilers are better off with
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Grigorenko-Gagner

over

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Pacioretty-Gagner-?

and a second pairing defenseman(no one in this draft is a lock for 1/2 duties)

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02-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Worst title ever.
Thanks for being the first one to point that out dude.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Understood but there are other ways to bring in defensemen outside of the draft.
If Grigorenko is the best player on the board at #2 which it appears he is then the Oilers would be stupid to not draft him or at the very least trade down a few spots and gain some assets. When you're talking about Top 3 in the draft, BPA is generally the smart way to go then worry about picking up defensemen later in the draft or through trade or free agency.

Agreed. Just because D is their main concern doesn't mean EDM shouldn't take Grigorenko. A drafted BPA at #2 can amount to huge value in a trade.

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02-21-2012, 02:09 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Agreed. Plus the Oilers are better off with
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Grigorenko-Gagner

over

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Pacioretty-Gagner-?

and a second pairing defenseman(no one in this draft is a lock for 1/2 duties)
Ryan Murray is as close to a lock for a future first pair d-man as it gets.

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02-21-2012, 02:15 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Ryan Murray is as close to a lock for a future first pair d-man as it gets.
You can add Dumba, Trouba, Rielly, and Reinhart as strong candidates as well.

And who knows who comes out of nowhere from rounds 3-6?

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02-21-2012, 02:15 PM
  #91
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Schneider, Tanev, our 1st for 2nd overall.

Not suggesting just wondering value wise.

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02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Schneider, Tanev, our 1st for 2nd overall.

Not suggesting just wondering value wise.
Well, it solves Edmonton's goalie issue. I'm not sure if that's worth the 2nd overall though.

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02-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #93
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Wayne Gretzky had 50 goals in 39 games. Take those away and he's essentially Scott Gomez.
.
Whats with these retarded posts? Sam Gagner had a good 4 game stretch with 8 ****ing points in one game. Something that came out of nowhere. And then you get the WELL GRETZKY SCORED 50 IN 39 GAMES HURR DURR. Here I will spell it out for the people that are having a rough time with my statement. Sam Gagner has yet to show hes a number 1center or even close to it. His stats are inflated due in most part to one game. He had like 2 pts in 8 games, he got 8 in 1 so now hes a consistent ppg player? No. I hope that made it through to your brain. I understand you can't just take away a game, but like Lebrun said, the scouts have watched all the games before that and know what type of player he is.

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02-21-2012, 02:46 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
You wouldn't do patches for a future elite center?
There are a lot of question marks on Grigorenko, no guarantee hes an elite center in the future. What Max is though, is a potential 30+ goal scorer, as he is already at 25 so far this season in his first full season. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the number 2 pick.

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Old
02-21-2012, 02:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
It is a big difference when you are talking about development years.
Sure, but I tend to think you're trying to find excuses for him. The fact he's a July-born won't justify his lacklustre production for long..

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02-21-2012, 03:06 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Ryan Murray is as close to a lock for a future first pair d-man as it gets.
Not according to Bob MacKenzies latest rankings and poll of scouts. Second pairing(and I read this after my previous comment)

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02-21-2012, 03:16 PM
  #97
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Not according to Bob MacKenzies latest rankings and poll of scouts. Second pairing(and I read this after my previous comment)
Don't buy into that. McKegg is just trying to protect his rep in case the prospects don't meet their actual expectations. If you lower your professional expectations of a prospect, you don't look dumb if they fall short of the actual expectations, and you're reputation isn't harmed. If they exceed your published expectations, it won't hurt your reputation, it will just make it seem like the prospect exceeded expectations. I see right through it. If you're going to cite that list and that scout, I might as well bring up that Grigorenko (according to him) is a second line center, whose drive and determination make a top 6 role questionable. You picked the wrong source to make that claim.

I mean. If we're going off of McKegg's advice...I'd take a guaranteed top four defenseman over a guy who's drive makes a top 6 role questionable any day of the week.

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Old
02-21-2012, 03:24 PM
  #98
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Fail for Nail edm

Hall - RNH - Yakupov
Paajarvi - Gagner - Eberle

Done deal.

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02-21-2012, 03:54 PM
  #99
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Bernier
Johnson
LA 1st

for

2nd Overall


? lol I have no idea

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02-21-2012, 04:07 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Not according to Bob MacKenzies latest rankings and poll of scouts. Second pairing(and I read this after my previous comment)
He would be ranked a lot lower than 3rd in that case, and I'm sure he wouldn't be the top ranked d-man.

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