The difference between Kesler and Raymond? One of them plays on the PP. Can't believe people will ***** about Raymond and not mention the shin pad sniper.
I think Kesler's game was starting to look better before Raymond got put on his line, honestly. He hasn't been great, but he still wins draws, plays better defense than Raymond (who is no slouch), and can do something on the PP. Raymond has never done anything on the PP except when it was driven by Ehrhoff and Kesler on the 2nd unit two years ago.
I dunno. Raymond is just a zero-brain player out there at the offensive end.
Raymond would make a decent 3rd line LW that we use to back-check and kill penalties.
Problem? We have him on the 2nd line RW...
Issue: He kills all plays in the offensive zone.
IMO biggest need at the deadline is an offensive RWer for the 2nd line. 3rd line/4th lines are fine. 1st line is good enough in the playoffs. Probably need a depth D too.
You must mean the skate, circle back, skate, circle, skate, circle and then A: shoot off stick into crowd B: pass back to Dmen C: never pass to Kesler D: fall down.
The potential is there but he is clearly not meeting it right now
A minute per game as per my calculation. Where are you getting your info from?
He had a stint on the point and he had a stint on the 2nd unit, but he hasn't been on it for quite a while now.
2nd unit forwards with more ice-time on PP than Raymond: Higgins, Booth, Hodgson, and Burrows. What's next, you're going to say Rome is a regular part of the PP with his 0:42?
He had a stint on the point and he had a stint on the 2nd unit, but he hasn't been on it for quite a while now.
I can see why you wouldn't notice him on the ice during the power play, he hasn't scored a single point in a minute a game of PP time. Not even a 2nd assist. He hasn't even been able to bounce one in off someone for an assist. He hasn't even been able to muster a cheap second assist by just passing it off to our point-men and having them blast away.
Raymond's too skinny. He needs to beef up, otherwise he's okay. He's good defensively, and good at gaining the offensive zone; but, he gets knocked off the puck a little too easily.
Kesler was miserable at ES to start the year, but I've been mostly okay with his game once Booth started to perform, and especially after Booth came back from injury. I'd like more from Kesler.
I'd like anything from Raymond. 8 points in 28 games, puck dies on his stick. I don't know -- he seems like the most natural spot to upgrade on the team.
At this point, if the Canucks could get Moen, I'd be okay with Raymond being shuffled to the 4th line with Malhotra and Lapierre. He can carry the puck for them.
Kesler was miserable at ES to start the year, but I've been mostly okay with his game once Booth started to perform, and especially after Booth came back from injury. I'd like more from Kesler.
I'd like anything from Raymond. 8 points in 28 games, puck dies on his stick. I don't know -- he seems like the most natural spot to upgrade on the team.
You can upgrade on his position, but I highly doubt that he is traded at the TDL. No matter how bad he's been. He will be allowed the opportunity to bounce back next year. That is, of course, if MG doesn't package him in a trade for a better player in the offseason.
Kesler was miserable at ES to start the year, but I've been mostly okay with his game once Booth started to perform, and especially after Booth came back from injury. I'd like more from Kesler.
I'd like anything from Raymond. 8 points in 28 games, puck dies on his stick. I don't know -- he seems like the most natural spot to upgrade on the team.
Problem is they could move Higgins back up and move Raymond down to play with Hodgson and Hansen, but then the 3rd line is awfully frail + if Higgins gets hurt or infected... or has to be put in a bubble again the Nucks need to rely on Raymond for offense, which i'm very worried about going into the playoffs.
Offensive RW. Target a Purcell, maybe Ott... I don't know. Go crazy and go for a Carter or Nash. Don't think a 2nd line with Raymond can provide proper 2nd unit support come post-season.
LOL, Blake Price suggesting sneaking Raymond through waivers for cap space at the TDL... What a maroon. Absolute brain dead comment.
and I thought it was funny when he suggested trading him for a 2nd last week. Getting dumber by the minute apparently. Raymond is struggling but let's use our heads a bit here.
Every time I watch Raymond enter the zone, it's dead obvious what he does. If there is someone in his way, he circles back and looks to either pass back to the blueline or dumps it in. He'll hardly ever drive to the net, he's a perimeter player. Definitely not someone we need on Kesler's wing. Not the right player for the Canucks top 6, definitely the area that MG needs to upgrade.
Raymond has the unique ability to make his linemates look like lesser versions of themselves. I hate to bash the whipping boy of this team, but we need to see some offensive production from him. One mere assist in 5 games isn't going to cut it, especially playing as a second line winger on a cup contending team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hekla
We're not getting much offense from Kesler but I'd like to see that line with Higgins on it. If that doesn't work switch Kesler with Hodgson.
Hodgson has been producing even less than kesler has lately with only one assist in 5 games (Same as raymond). Not a wise decision to promote him, even if kesler continues to struggle.
Last edited by Sayonara77: 02-21-2012 at 11:41 PM.
If Raymond were a bit bigger and grittier he'd be a perfect third liner. If his hands we're in the same league as his feet he could be an incredible top six forward. If he we're European we'd probably have given up on him by now. (I have absolutely nothing to base that last statement on... just a hunch)
If Raymond were a bit bigger and grittier he'd be a perfect third liner. If his hands we're in the same league as his feet he could be an incredible top six forward. If he we're European we'd probably have given up on him by now. (I have absolutely nothing to base that last statement on... just a hunch)
If Raymond were bigger and grittier - he'd be Booth, but with better puck skills. As is, he's a struggling top6 forward.
I don't think people (not you) are evaluating just how difficult it is for a top6 player to get to 40+ points without PP time/conversion. Raymond is struggling, no doubt. But his point production over the larger sample size indicates a top6 rate. He's not a 3rd liner.
Oh, and Kesler isn't helping things any. He's decided to go into a funk at ES at the same time. I've never trusted his production at ES, and it's happening again. If he's going to be considered an elite player across the league, he's got to lead that line offensively - and that means making plays and working with his linemates. Right now, he is doing neither.
Raymond is incredibly frustrating to watch. We really need to get the Kesler line going and he just doesn't make the line better. I'd like to see Higgins back up there and just go with three straight ahead skaters who bang and crash and create chances that way. Kesler needs to be the go to guy on that line and have the puck.
Raymond is a useful player. He just looks like he has absolutely no confidence right now and we really need to have a second line that is going.
offense practically dies on mason raymond's stick. kesler decided to go solo last yr on route to 41 goals. 2nd line needs a passer. too many "shoot first guys"
People seem to be complaining about Kesler at even strength, but he seemed to be rolling pretty well until he was saddled with 140lbs of dead weight on his wing.
If Bitz is healthy, is Raymond even in the lineup right now? He seems to our 13th best forward right now with the fourth line playing so well.
People seem to be complaining about Kesler at even strength, but he seemed to be rolling pretty well until he was saddled with 140lbs of dead weight on his wing.
If Bitz is healthy, is Raymond even in the lineup right now? He seems to our 13th best forward right now with the fourth line playing so well.
totally agree... I think AV is the only person who thinks that Raymond is a 2nd liner. I think it is really bringing Kesler down.
If Raymond were bigger and grittier - he'd be Booth, but with better puck skills. As is, he's a struggling top6 forward.
I don't think people (not you) are evaluating just how difficult it is for a top6 player to get to 40+ points without PP time/conversion. Raymond is struggling, no doubt. But his point production over the larger sample size indicates a top6 rate. He's not a 3rd liner.
Oh, and Kesler isn't helping things any. He's decided to go into a funk at ES at the same time. I've never trusted his production at ES, and it's happening again. If he's going to be considered an elite player across the league, he's got to lead that line offensively - and that means making plays and working with his linemates. Right now, he is doing neither.
I'd have a much easier time accepting this argument if he had been able to do anything with the time he receives on the PP. In a minute a game on the PP, he doesn't have a single point. Thats beyond bad luck.
and I thought it was funny when he suggested trading him for a 2nd last week. Getting dumber by the minute apparently. Raymond is struggling but let's use our heads a bit here.
