Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
I'd rather they drafted Grigorenko as the big #2c, and looked to move a young player like Gagner or Pajaarvi (or Omark, or Hemsky, etc.) for an actual NHL defenseman.
Gilbert, Smid, and Petry can play. Sutton's been remarkably good (as a 5-6,) and is signed for 2 more years. Whitney, when not injured (which has been rare) has been good to great. Barker is a train wreck (Minny fans can attest,) and is only playing for the tank.
Edmonton has fringe NHL'ers like Peckham, Tuebert, and Plante, and players like Klefbom, Musil, Marincin, and Gernat in the system. No more prospects/suspects, please.
This is a "lite" parallel to my proposal.
But you get what you pay for.
A lesser F will get you a lesser return, and a lesser D.
Make it Hall for Girardi +.
With Grigorenko you don't feel it as a loss, (you don't have added production, but you do have great D + other benefits)
with Girardi + you enjoy greatly improved D available IMMEDIATELY not a few years down the road.
Well Murray is 3rd on a ton of list and must be 2nd on some list also.
We will just have to wait and see then but IMO where would Grigorenko fit in your lineup. You have Nugent Hopkins as the first and Gagner is looking like the perfect second line center for you. Murray would be your best dman prospect by a mile and with the way your team like playing youngsters would play right away.
Drafting BPA is good but when your team has big holes it's not a good option.
I'd be pissed if we drafted a dman this year (trouba Dumba Reinhart) because we are lacking elite talent on the offense and Grigorenko Forsberg galchenyuk are looking like elite talent.
I wouldn't be surprised tough Timmins sure loves american dman.
I had a hard time seing Couturier slip off the top 3 last year and looked what happened. I don't see any team taking Grigorenko except the sabres and the habs in the top 5. I might be wrong but that's my opinion.
Lines are built on pairs and then you just have to plug someone in.
???-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Grigorenko-???
The blank spots can be filled by Hemsky, Gagner, Smyth, MPS, Omark etc
Gagner is too small to be a perfect 2nd line center if RNH is the first line center, trade him while his value has never been higher.
Its funny you can only see 2 teams drafting him. You would think after getting RNH and literally having everyone said oilers have big holes and should have taken Larsson. I dont think you can find a single oiler fan or someone in managment who would not want RNH now. You go for the elite pick because if it pans out its better then a 2nd pairing dman (which is what bob mckenzie has murray at)
This doesn't make any sense at all because there is no Malkin or Crosby or Ovechkin type player available in this year's draft - not even close, especially at the #2 spot. There are huge question marks surrounding Grigorenko and he's not even a concensus #2 pick.
What would you rather have :
Grigorenko or
Galchenyuk and Beaulieu
It's a toss up among scouts as to who has the best potential between the two Gs. And Beaulieu might be a top 5 pick if he was available in this draft. It makes no sense at all to give him up to move 3 spots.
On top of that, I'd bet some bucks that the Oilers don't take Grigorenko. Murray is exactly what they need at #2.
Heard it with Hall, heard it with RNH. It seems like every draft the oilers have a chance at a first none of the players are anything special
As it currently stands, Montreal is set to pick 5th in this year's draft and Edmonton is in 2nd position. It has been widely speculated that after having drafted Eberle, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins in recent years the Oilers' greatest organizational need is on defense. For decades the Habs' greatest organizational need has been a big superstar center. With Grigorenko set to go 2nd overall and a stable of good defense prospects like Trouba, Murray, Dumba and Ceci set to be available at Montreal's position, what would it take for these two teams to swap 1st round picks? From the Habs' perspective, I would be willing to offer Beaulieu/Tinordi and a 2nd round pick.
three recent top pick trades:
2006:
#16 MtL for #20SJ and Sj 2nd #53
2007:
Stl #9 for Sj 313 and 2nd #44
2008:
NYI #5 (schenn ) to toronto for #7, #37, #68
Clear as the pick is higher the return is greater. Jumping two spots in the 5-10 range took a 2nd and a third.
to jump from #5 to #2 is three spots in the top 5. #2 pick value requires greater return. plus the three slot jump. History tells us that a pick based trade would be the equivalent of two moves from 7 to 5.
Edm #2 (2012) for Mtl's #5 (2012), Mtl 2nd (2012), Nsh 2nd (2012)(from Hall gill trade), Mtl 3rd in (2012), Mtl third (2103)
The facts and history are there.
To me way to much for Grigarenko instead of Galchenyuk
But hey I would be ok with:
Galchenyuk
Gordon
Severson
Fournier
?????????2013
Montreal 1st + 2nd +conditional third for Oilers 1st + Horcoff
Am I really the first person to reply to this or am I just missing the sarcasm here? I'm an Oiler's fan and even I know that Gauthier would laugh at this proposal. Imagine two of the worst contracts in the league, in Horcoff and Gomez, on the same team.
Gauthier would not only be fired but would be chased out of Montreal if he made this deal.
Am I really the first person to reply to this or am I just missing the sarcasm here? I'm an Oiler's fan and even I know that Gauthier would laugh at this proposal. Imagine two of the worst contracts in the league, in Horcoff and Gomez, on the same team.
Gauthier would not only be fired but would be chased out of Montreal if he made this deal.
In all fairness, Gomez will likely be in the AHL where his contract does no damage next season. And Horcoff IS better than Gomez at this point. YAY FOR UPGRADES!
This is a "lite" parallel to my proposal.
But you get what you pay for.
A lesser F will get you a lesser return, and a lesser D.
Make it Hall for Girardi +.
With Grigorenko you don't feel it as a loss, (you don't have added production, but you do have great D + other benefits)
with Girardi + you enjoy greatly improved D available IMMEDIATELY not a few years down the road.
Wow the crack in your neighbourhood is insane. You are talking About Taylor Hall here right?
Girardi would be the salary dump in a Hall deal my friend. If your talking actual value, there is nothing on the Rangers roster that works for the oilers enough to move Hall. Go look at Rick Nash again and see who you would like better? Hall with 28 goals in his rookie season and on pace for a similar number year 2 at 3 million or Nash and his $7.8 million dollar 30 goal seasons? They would both take similar returns to get in my opinion.
Wow the crack in your neighbourhood is insane. You are talking About Taylor Hall here right?
Girardi would be the salary dump in a Hall deal my friend. If your talking actual value, there is nothing on the Rangers roster that works for the oilers enough to move Hall. Go look at Rick Nash again and see who you would like better? Hall with 28 goals in his rookie season and on pace for a similar number year 2 at 3 million or Nash and his $7.8 million dollar 30 goal seasons? They would both take similar returns to get in my opinion.
please note my post at #62, better, so you won't make the mistake of overlooking it I'll repeat it:
The Oilers should trade Hall to the Rangers for large overpayment including Girardi +.
Then Oilers take Grigorenko 2nd overall.
It's a win-win, if NY-Edmonton can agree on exactly what that overpayment is, which should be the case.
Rangers get sniper they need at LW, plan on Staal returning + upcoming D to handle loss of Girardi.
Oilers keep same offense, but improve on D with All Star who contributes now AND get a lot of extras to accelerate development.
At first glance, this does not seem possible. Trade Hall? Would the Red Sox trade Ted Williams?
The answer should be yes, if the return was good enough, i.e., Mantle AND Ford; or to Cleveland for Bob Feller + Larry Doby +.
Oilers should not take less at #2 than the most valuable pick there, but then use their surplus to address needs at D and G +.
Oh yeah, the above makes the premise of the OP moot.
It's a good question to raise; but Edmonton better served by this^^."
I agree we have to agree what that large overpayment is, but the core of it is served by Girardi.
Again, it's inconceivable Ted Williams would be traded, but for a Hall of Fame pitcher, it would be worth it.
Girardi may be just below the elite D of the league like Weber, Chara, etc., but he is a real shut down D master.
Denying Oilers are served by acquiring such D+ is to deny the truth.
The core of my proposal is sound, the only ? is the details of the +.
please note my post at #62, better, so you won't make the mistake of overlooking it I'll repeat it:
The Oilers should trade Hall to the Rangers for large overpayment including Girardi +.
Then Oilers take Grigorenko 2nd overall.
It's a win-win, if NY-Edmonton can agree on exactly what that overpayment is, which should be the case.
Rangers get sniper they need at LW, plan on Staal returning + upcoming D to handle loss of Girardi.
Oilers keep same offense, but improve on D with All Star who contributes now AND get a lot of extras to accelerate development.
At first glance, this does not seem possible. Trade Hall? Would the Red Sox trade Ted Williams?
The answer should be yes, if the return was good enough, i.e., Mantle AND Ford; or to Cleveland for Bob Feller + Larry Doby +.
Oilers should not take less at #2 than the most valuable pick there, but then use their surplus to address needs at D and G +.
Oh yeah, the above makes the premise of the OP moot.
It's a good question to raise; but Edmonton better served by this^^."
I agree we have to agree what that large overpayment is, but the core of it is served by Girardi.
Again, it's inconceivable Ted Williams would be traded, but for a Hall of Fame pitcher, it would be worth it.
Girardi may be just below the elite D of the league like Weber, Chara, etc., but he is a real shut down D master.
Denying Oilers are served by acquiring such D+ is to deny the truth.
The core of my proposal is sound, the only ? is the details of the +.
WTF?????
OK Riddle me this.....who plays LW for the Oilers since Smyth isnt getting any younger, and the jury is still out on Paajarvi.
WTF?????
OK Riddle me this.....who plays LW for the Oilers since Smyth isnt getting any younger, and the jury is still out on Paajarvi.
There are options: one possibility is a larger deal giving you Dubi + X for MPS + Y. While Pajaarvi theoretically has more physical upside, it is not confirmed he will definitely meet that potential. But as a part and parcel of that X which goes with Girardi for Hall, something like this can work.
But this is not your key ?
You're getting a stud F at #2 who's gonna be a great sniper.
You've gotta admit you need help at D + G.
Sure don't give Hall away for nothing.
But my overall is Girardi +.
I have ideas as to what that + can/should be.
I just want to see if we can first agree on the 2 principle parts:
a pre-elite potential F with certain sniper ability
for an All Star D with shutdown defense ability.
I agree Rangers have to add enough to = overpayment, provided we can agree on how massive that can/should be so as to be good enough for EO to accept but not too much Rangers can't afford because it guts team.
I believe that exists.
Just work with me and see if we can agree on a basis, and build on that foundation.
Lines are built on pairs and then you just have to plug someone in.
???-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Grigorenko-???
The blank spots can be filled by Hemsky, Gagner, Smyth, MPS, Omark etc
Gagner is too small to be a perfect 2nd line center if RNH is the first line center, trade him while his value has never been higher.
Its funny you can only see 2 teams drafting him. You would think after getting RNH and literally having everyone said oilers have big holes and should have taken Larsson. I dont think you can find a single oiler fan or someone in managment who would not want RNH now. You go for the elite pick because if it pans out its better then a 2nd pairing dman (which is what bob mckenzie has murray at)
I don't think the oilers are in the same position as last year they didn't have a first line center because Hall Eberle and Paajarvi are wingers and Gagner seemed like he couldn't handle first line duties.
You already have an elite center in RNH and talking about the size of Grigorenko is not a good point he is being accused of not using it the way he should, he is not physical. Second center is important but not as much as a top pairing two way dman. Guy can contribute on the pp two way.
We will just have to wait and see but like i said Grigorenko's stock is not so high anymore and player like galchenyuk Murray Dumba could be drafted in front of him.
I think he is a great fit in mtl for a lot of reason Patrick Roy would probably want to follow him we have russian veterans in the team so he would not be alone, he would fit the need of a potential elite player.
Murray is a perfect fit in edmonton two way playing probably right away and being better than at leats 3 of your dman.
I'm pretty sure Murray will go 2nd overall and Grigorenko will drop to 4-5th.
Your team is surely going in the right direction with the draft but you need elite talent on the dzone and the goalies IMO.
Am I really the first person to reply to this or am I just missing the sarcasm here? I'm an Oiler's fan and even I know that Gauthier would laugh at this proposal. Imagine two of the worst contracts in the league, in Horcoff and Gomez, on the same team.
Gauthier would not only be fired but would be chased out of Montreal if he made this deal.
I'd make this deal Gomez is as good as gone next year and Horcoff could fit a need on the pk.
But hell not to adding Subban beaulieu or Tinordi we are talking about our future top 3 dman he and it will be scary.
I'd make this deal Gomez is as good as gone next year and Horcoff could fit a need on the pk.
But hell not to adding Subban beaulieu or Tinordi we are talking about our future top 3 dman he and it will be scary.
Forget that, just look at the picks. Why would MTL give up a second, or... hell... ANYTHING to get EDM's first on top of theirs since they can very well end up picking before them? Even though I think the lowest we will draft is 3rd right above edmonton and columbus, you can't bank on probabilities with 20 games to go. And then still, the top 5 is delicious this year no need to move up in the draft especially considering the lottery probabilities.
Of course this is considering we make this deal happen now and not at the draft when everything is set in stone.
I don't think the oilers are in the same position as last year they didn't have a first line center because Hall Eberle and Paajarvi are wingers and Gagner seemed like he couldn't handle first line duties.
You already have an elite center in RNH and talking about the size of Grigorenko is not a good point he is being accused of not using it the way he should, he is not physical. Second center is important but not as much as a top pairing two way dman. Guy can contribute on the pp two way.
We will just have to wait and see but like i said Grigorenko's stock is not so high anymore and player like galchenyuk Murray Dumba could be drafted in front of him.
I think he is a great fit in mtl for a lot of reason Patrick Roy would probably want to follow him we have russian veterans in the team so he would not be alone, he would fit the need of a potential elite player.
Murray is a perfect fit in edmonton two way playing probably right away and being better than at leats 3 of your dman.
I'm pretty sure Murray will go 2nd overall and Grigorenko will drop to 4-5th.
Your team is surely going in the right direction with the draft but you need elite talent on the dzone and the goalies IMO.
Its still early in the season so I havent done any research yet only going by bob Mckenzie. He has Murray as a 2-3dman, that doesnt scream elite to me and the oilers already have that in Whitney, Smid and Gilbert except they dont cost us 2nd overall and 5 years to develop. If he was a sure number 1 dman I probably still wouldnt do it. Centers are impossible to trade for because every team that has one keeps them. All the recent cup winning teams have had 2 very good centers.
IMO having two first line centers locked up for the next decade probably beats a dman that may or may not be as good in several years. Forwards develop faster and playing with RNH, Hall and Eberle will help that.
There are lots of options for 3rd and 4th line in the oilers farm system. As long as one of the half dozen dmen the Oilers have drafted in the last 2 years work out the lack of depth on the backend isnt as bad as to be believed.
Don't really know why the Habs need to swap the pick with the Oilers. If we pick around 5th, we certainly will get one of Grigorenko/Galchenyuk/Forsberg. This is good enough for me. Why give anything to the Oilers to get the 2nd pick?
Don't really know why the Habs need to swap the pick with the Oilers. If we pick around 5th, we certainly will get one of Grigorenko/Galchenyuk/Forsberg. This is good enough for me. Why give anything to the Oilers to get the 2nd pick?
I'm not really sure why Grigorenko would be lumped in there as though he hasn't clearly established himself as the consensus #2? Bobby Mac said Yakupov had 9/10 1st place votes, with Grigorenko getting the other. ISS rankings for Nov/Dec/Jan had Grigs #1, #2 for Nov and Feb. CSB has him at #2. Sounds to me like most scouts have him a notch below Yakupov and a notch above the rest.
So a better question might be "why give the #2 pick to Montreal for lesser pieces?"
I'm not really sure why Grigorenko would be lumped in there as though he hasn't clearly established himself as the consensus #2? Bobby Mac said Yakupov had 9/10 1st place votes, with Grigorenko getting the other. ISS rankings for Nov/Dec/Jan had Grigs #1, #2 for Nov and Feb. CSB has him at #2. Sounds to me like most scouts have him a notch below Yakupov and a notch above the rest.
So a better question might be "why give the #2 pick to Montreal for lesser pieces?"
Do not like what I see from him recently. Really worry about his consistencies. Let the Oilers pick him up and the Habs should get either Gelchenyuk or Forsberg.
Am I really the first person to reply to this or am I just missing the sarcasm here? I'm an Oiler's fan and even I know that Gauthier would laugh at this proposal. Imagine two of the worst contracts in the league, in Horcoff and Gomez, on the same team.
Gauthier would not only be fired but would be chased out of Montreal if he made this deal.
Honestly, mate. If this was something Edmonton would do, it's worth considering. We bury Gomez or just ride him out one more season while the kids develop, finish low again and bury him then. Either way, we are more than capable of absorbing the horrendous cap and in this scenario do not lose one of our highly ranked prospects.
In any event, I suspect this deal would come after Edmonton already drafted Grigorenko. If Murray or Dumba then fell to fifth for Montreal to grab, a trade could be discussed. If not I doubt Edmonton minds keeping Grigorenko.
It's a sound proposal, based around actual team needs, with past precedent for teams in the top five dropping down a few spots in exchange for a sweetener. Good post, OP. Fans can thrash about ideas about how strong the sweetener should be, but as the basis for a deal, it's solid.
