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Lebrun doesn't think Gauthier will be back as GM

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:57 PM
  #26
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
If those were the only gaffes he made I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, Gauthier has made many gaffes. And you have the audacity to call people clueless.

The Gauthier sympathizers are just like the Gainey ones. Completely delusional.
Which ones? Cmon lets here the treasure trove of mistakes he has made. I have heard you whine about the same sad little points over and over. "He fired martin in a weird way" or "cammalleri trade was strange" . You have nothing on him but do keep trying it makes me laugh.

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02-20-2012, 11:03 PM
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All that matters is we're 1 point out of LAST in the Eastern conference. Someone needs to answer to that.

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02-20-2012, 11:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The clueless can keep babbling on about such strawmen as "the kaberle trade" and "the Markov deal" as if they can see past their bias. It is hilarious how two things that have had such a little impact can be brought up by the mindless masses countless times in a vain attempt to slander the man.

Gauthier just keeps making smart moves and maximizing value while the little dogs like this lebrun goof yap away.
Fact remains though...Habs are 1 point from being 3rd last in the NHL and the 8th worst pt% in Habs history since expansion. Who is the GM of that team and what exactly has he shown that he can improve it?

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02-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I would think ownership has already made their decision (one way or the other) and in the off-season we'll find out what it is.
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
I don't see why he should be given to chance to do so. He was part of the brain trust who made all those moves to put the team in this situation. Plus it's not his first rodeo. He has a poor track record dating back 15 years.
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
If he's not coming back, he's out the moment the season finishes for the Habs. It'd make no sense to put a GM in after an offseason of moves.
I don't think they've made their decision or found a successor even if they have. There's nothing wrong with having a side you're leaning on and seeing how Gauthier handles himself. I don't think there's enough reason to fire him at this point. I don't like him, but i'm calling it for what it is, he may be on the "not sure if we're gonna keep" list, but I highly doubt it's a final decision. However, I do see the habs, if they are gonna fire him, doing it before the draft. If not, I assume he has another year.

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02-20-2012, 11:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Those wouldn't be the reasons I would send him packing.

To me there was no big picture, no clear goal, no path or a reason for almost all of the things that happened. Too helter-skelter for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
With Gauthier it's not JUST about the trades. The management needs to be removed. The culture needs to change. We need a leader as a GM with new ideas. A proactive GM. Gauthier is not that guy.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
If those were the only gaffes he made I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, Gauthier has made many gaffes. And you have the audacity to call people clueless.

The Gauthier sympathizers are just like the Gainey ones. Completely delusional.
Quoted as truth. For these reasons I think Lebrun is correct.

But remember Gauthier did manage to worm his way into the GM's job after some of the most spectacular blunders in the history of pro scouting. His ability to pull the wool over some eyes is impressive, and I never underestimate a snake oil salesman.

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02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
Pierre Lebrun was on L'antichambre and said he doesn't see Gauthier returning in his position next season. He said the Markov and Kaberle deals made him look really bad.

My reaction:
Fully agree with LeBrun.

This doesn't mean that everything Pierre "Game Day" Gauthier did was bad, but those are two absolutely ridiculous moves.

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02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
Pierre Lebrun was on L'antichambre and said he doesn't see Gauthier returning in his position next season. He said the Markov and Kaberle deals made him look really bad.

My reaction:
Can't say I am a big Gauthier fan, but if he's sent packing it shouldn't be because of Markov.

It was a calculated risk, you don't judge those by the outcome. You judge them by the odds of success and the expected reward. We don't know what was the medical staff report so we can't judge on the odds but the rewards would have been one of the best D-man in the league at a very reasonable price tag. Assuming the report was something like 80% of full recovery by the first few weeks of the season, you just have to take that bet.

When you play Hold'em and you have pocket aces, you always bet them before the flop. Always. Sometime they'll break, you can't win them all, but if you don't bet them pre-flop you are an idiot and if someone sees you lose a big chunk of chip on such a decision and says you shouldn't have bet them, then he's an idiot (and you should play poker with him more).

That being said, it's time for new blood.


Last edited by VL55: 02-20-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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02-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #33
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Lebrun is a very well informed guy. He usually knows what he's talking about.

He's shown nothing but disdain for Gauthier lately, excluding the Gill deal, and I think he's smart enough to form his own opinions based on facts. I'm guessing Gauthier doesn't have a great rep around the league, he's been a little unconventional at times (Pern firing, Cammalleri trade) and he seems somewhat arrogant. I'm sure Pierre Lebrun thinks Gauthier's gone because that's the feeling other NHL execs get.

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02-20-2012, 11:15 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Which ones? Cmon lets here the treasure trove of mistakes he has made. I have heard you whine about the same sad little points over and over. "He fired martin in a weird way" or "cammalleri trade was strange" . You have nothing on him but do keep trying it makes me laugh.
Either you have me confused with someone else or you're a bold faced liar.

I was FOR the Martin firing, smart guy

When did I say the Cam trade was strange? I said it was a nonsensical trade.

And then you have the audacity to put these things in quotes as if they have been said? LOL

But lets look at a few things.

The Kaberle deal was the worst deal this year. The Cammy deal is a "meh" deal.

The Lapierre deal last year was nonsensical given that in a lesser role just weeks later, he was traded for a better pick. Not to mention Lapierre is a guy we could use on this team.

Signing Campoli right before the season started and giving him a RAISE was another dumb move, that covered up his blunder with Markov...then that blunder was covered up by the Kaberle trade. Great GM, huh

Going into the season with the entire team's fortunes riding on Markov (a guy who has been injured for 2 seasons and coming off an injury) was STUPID! Even WITH Markov, the D corp looked weak.

Realizing in the middle of the season that we needed to get bigger when everyone and their mother knew this a couple years earlier.

His inability to put together a legitmate 4th line...we've had 4-5 4th line centermen since he's been here.

Handling any kind of volatility by firing or trade.

Firing Pern (very well liked) for really no reason.

Firing Martin right before a game and adding a guy who has 0 coaching experience in Carriere.

Hiring a new coach, then telling the media/fans that he's interim and will not be back next year. Then APOLOGIZING.

Last year at the deadline when Halpern (4th line center) was playing on the 1st line he thought the better solution was to trade picks for dmen who are no longer playing in the league. He then makes up some stupid story about a roof, a hole and a vacation.

He is a reactive GM who has a checkered history everywhere he's gone. Under Gauthier's watch the team has basically become a laughing stock

and you want to bring this clown back? Every GM makes poor trades, the problem with Gauthier is the BAD outweighs the good and it's not JUST about trades. The perception of Gauthier very low. The perception of the Habs organization is not a good one.

Oh, and how can we forget the great players we got under his watch as head of pro scouting. Get this clown far away from this team.


Last edited by hockeyfan2k11: 02-20-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old
02-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by VL55 View Post
Can't say I am a big Gauthier fan, but if he's sent packing it shouldn't be because of Markov.

It was a calculated risk, you don't judge those by the outcome. You judge them by the odds of success and the expected reward. We don't know what was the medical staff report so we can't judge on the odds but the rewards would have been one of the best D-man in the league at a very reasonable price tag. Assuming the report was something like 80% of full recovery by the first few weeks of the season, you just have to take that bet.

When you play Hold'em and you have pocket aces, you always bet them before the flop. Always. Sometime they'll break, you can't win them all, but if you don't bet them pre-flop you are an idiot and if someone sees you lose a big chunk of chip on such a decision and says you shouldn't have bet them, then he's an idiot (and you should play poker with him more).

That being said, it's time for new blood.
So lets say he was told Markov would play opening day and would play 82 reg. season games.

Markov - Gorges
PK - Spacek
Emelin - Gill
Weber/Diaz

That's one soft lineup. I just don't get signing the guy to 3 years at that much money. I would have told him to kick rocks and I'm a big Markov fan.

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02-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #36
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Wait a sec, Pierre Lebrun speaks french? I thought he just had a french name and was english. Maybe i'm confusing him with someone else.

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02-20-2012, 11:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The clueless can keep babbling on about such strawmen as "the kaberle trade" and "the Markov deal" as if they can see past their bias. It is hilarious how two things that have had such a little impact can be brought up by the mindless masses countless times in a vain attempt to slander the man.

Gauthier just keeps making smart moves and maximizing value while the little dogs like this lebrun goof yap away.
I do agree with you that the Kaberle trade is like a strawman........exactly how Kaberle plays, soft like a strawman.

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02-20-2012, 11:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Those wouldn't be the reasons I would send him packing.

To me there was no big picture, no clear goal, no path or a reason for almost all of the things that happened. Too helter-skelter for me.
This.

I won't be surprised if he's back with us but you've hit the nail on the head here. When you look at his moves on the whole, there's no longterm plan. It's just a series of reactive moves and that's why he should be shown the door.

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02-20-2012, 11:27 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Gauthier's job will depends on how he retools and ends the season. The pick, getting a #1 center, trading gomez or kaberle. I'll give him a chance, but I want to see something good by end of year. Something that will make us think "this guy left his mark(in a positive way)".
I absolutely cannot wait for another one of those vaunted retools the habs are famous for. Who's the next Gomez, Gionta and Cammy ?

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02-20-2012, 11:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Either you have me confused with someone else or you're a bold faced liar.

I was FOR the Martin firing, smart guy

When did I say the Cam trade was strange? I said it was a nonsensical trade.

And then you have the audacity to put these things in quotes as if they have been said? LOL

But lets look at a few things.

The Kaberle deal was the worst deal this year. The Cammy deal is a "meh" deal.

The Lapierre deal last year was nonsensical given that in a lesser role just weeks later, he was traded for a better pick. Not to mention Lapierre is a guy we could use on this team.

Signing Campoli right before the season started and giving him a RAISE was another dumb move, that covered up his blunder with Markov...then that blunder was covered up by the Kaberle trade. Great GM, huh

Going into the season with the entire team's fortunes riding on Markov (a guy who has been injured for 2 seasons and coming off an injury) was STUPID! Even WITH Markov, the D corp looked weak.

Realizing in the middle of the season that we needed to get bigger when everyone and their mother knew this a couple years earlier.

His inability to put together a legitmate 4th line...we've had 4-5 4th line centermen since he's been here.

Handling any kind of volatility by firing or trade.

Firing Pern (very well liked) for really no reason.

Firing Martin right before a game and adding a guy who has 0 coaching experience in Carriere.

Hiring a new coach, then telling the media/fans that he's interim and will not be back next year. Then APOLOGIZING.

Last year at the deadline when Halpern (4th line center) was playing on the 4th line he thought the better solution was to trade picks for dmen who are no longer playing in the league. He then makes up some stupid story about a roof, a hole and a vacation.

He is a reactive GM who has a checkered history everywhere he's gone. Under Gauthier's watch the team has basically become a laughing stock

and you want to bring this clown back? Every GM makes poor trades, the problem with Gauthier is the BAD outweighs the good and it's not JUST about trades. The perception of Gauthier very low. The perception of the Habs organization is not a good one.

Oh, and how can we forget the great players we got under his watch as head of pro scouting. Get this clown far away from this team.
Damned GREAT post.

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02-20-2012, 11:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The clueless can keep babbling on about such strawmen as "the kaberle trade" and "the Markov deal" as if they can see past their bias. It is hilarious how two things that have had such a little impact can be brought up by the mindless masses countless times in a vain attempt to slander the man.

Gauthier just keeps making smart moves and maximizing value while the little dogs like this lebrun goof yap away.
I don't get you man. You crucified Gainey while he was in the big chair but you fight tooth and nail for PG. What's up with that? Seriously man, PG hasn't been good so I'm not sure why you get so defensive whenever he's criticized. Esp when you consider how much you trashed Gainey on here.

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02-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't think they've made their decision or found a successor even if they have. There's nothing wrong with having a side you're leaning on and seeing how Gauthier handles himself. I don't think there's enough reason to fire him at this point. I don't like him, but i'm calling it for what it is, he may be on the "not sure if we're gonna keep" list, but I highly doubt it's a final decision. However, I do see the habs, if they are gonna fire him, doing it before the draft. If not, I assume he has another year.
I'm not sure if ownership ever really wanted him as gm. Also, maybe they never had a reason until this year to fire him or if they ever really thought about the gm position until things became unglued earlier this season.

If he stays, Gauthier has to rethink and redo the way he handles PR, I don't see the Molson's living with the status quo.

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02-20-2012, 11:34 PM
  #43
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I'm not sure if ownership ever really wanted him as gm. Also, maybe they never had a reason until this year to fire him or if they ever really thought about the gm position until things became unglued earlier this season.

If he stays, Gauthier has to rethink and redo the way he handles PR, I don't see the Molson's living with the status quo.
Which is why I don't get why you bring him back and give him another chance to screw up.

Get rid of him now....Gainey needs to either be moved into a different department where he has 0 influence or he needs to go too.

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02-20-2012, 11:36 PM
  #44
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Wait a sec, Pierre Lebrun speaks french? I thought he just had a french name and was english. Maybe i'm confusing him with someone else.
seriously, does he?

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02-20-2012, 11:37 PM
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I think he's done a reasonable job overall.

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02-20-2012, 11:39 PM
  #46
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I'm not sure if ownership ever really wanted him as gm. Also, maybe they never had a reason until this year to fire him or if they ever really thought about the gm position until things became unglued earlier this season.

If he stays, Gauthier has to rethink and redo the way he handles PR, I don't see the Molson's living with the status quo.
Problem is Gauthier is too tied to this version of the team.

I don't know that a blow-up is in the making here, but a full top-to-bottom assessment has to be made of this organization and team.

Can Gauthier be trusted to make frank assessments of players like Bourque, Kaberle, Gomez, and other players he had a hand in bringing in? I'd prefer a fresh set of eyes.

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02-20-2012, 11:42 PM
  #47
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Fact remains though...Habs are 1 point from being 3rd last in the NHL and the 8th worst pt% in Habs history since expansion. Who is the GM of that team and what exactly has he shown that he can improve it?
Yes those are some lovely facts you have there that mean almost nothing. Gauthier has entirely inherited this mess and is cleaning it up but I am sure you are the kind of person who blames the janitor when he cleans up someone elses puke. Perfect reasoning.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Either you have me confused with someone else or you're a bold faced liar.

I was FOR the Martin firing, smart guy

When did I say the Cam trade was strange? I said it was a nonsensical trade. Nonsensical? A player that was massivly overpaid and getting worse was moved, makes perfect sense. Cammy was a cancer and didn't want to be here, good riddance.

And then you have the audacity to put these things in quotes as if they have been said? LOL You have the audacity to whine about every move, non-move and rumor involving Gauthier and then claim you don't, what's the problem?

But lets look at a few things.

The Kaberle deal was the worst deal this year. The Cammy deal is a "meh" deal. On pace for about 40 points on a team with absolutly no shot from the point. Geez I wish every trade was the "worst 1 evar omgwtfbbq!!1!/1?!"

The Lapierre deal last year was nonsensical given that in a lesser role just weeks later, he was traded for a better pick. Not to mention Lapierre is a guy we could use on this team. God if only we had that 3rd/4th liner who never backed up his mouth, good lord we miss him.

Signing Campoli right before the season started and giving him a RAISE was another dumb move, that covered up his blunder with Markov...then that blunder was covered up by the Kaberle trade. Great GM, huh A temp player who had to fill a bigger role than he was intended to, is this all you have? Hardly PG's fault that RC uses a 7th dman too much but I am sure common sense wont end your river of tears.

Going into the season with the entire team's fortunes riding on Markov (a guy who has been injured for 2 seasons and coming off an injury) was STUPID! Even WITH Markov, the D corp looked weak. A top 3 of Subban, Markov and Gorges is weak? Add in a player like Emelin who is very experienced mind you. It might not be the best in the world but had Subban not slumped offensivly we would be in the playoffs with a above average powerplay, this is a weak excuse to attack the man at best.

Realizing in the middle of the season that we needed to get bigger when everyone and their mother knew this a couple years earlier. Yes that is when the rebuild really started, you see having a handful of old and small players who eat up the majority of your cap makes it a little hard to make moves. You see timmy when a team does bad you have the opportunity to "rebuild". Had we been in 7th place would you have expected PG to just say "time to rebuild" LOL

His inability to put together a legitmate 4th line...we've had 4-5 4th line centermen since he's been here. This story is called "Bigger Fish to Fry" or "Who gives a ****?"

Handling any kind of volatility by firing or trade. Everyone who needed to be fired was fired and we are working through the trades, personally I think they waited too long. Martin should have been fired at the beginning of this year, what a waste of skin.

Firing Pern (very well liked) for really no reason. He sucked and wasn't doing his job, buh-bye

Firing Martin right before a game and adding a guy who has 0 coaching experience in Carriere. Here come the tears They are waiting to hire someone right for the job, no reason to rush out and grab whatever rotten fruit is sitting on the shelf

Hiring a new coach, then telling the media/fans that he's interim and will not be back next year. Then APOLOGIZING. He wont, RC will likely be the assistant and with good reason judging on his many rookie mistakes.

Last year at the deadline when Halpern (4th line center) was playing on the 4th line he thought the better solution was to trade picks for dmen who are no longer playing in the league. He then makes up some stupid story about a roof, a hole and a vacation. This was such a big deal I have no recollection what you are talking about.

He is a reactive GM who has a checkered history everywhere he's gone. Under Gauthier's watch the team has basically become a laughing stock Nah but these weak attempts to slander him are pretty funny.

and you want to bring this clown back? Every GM makes poor trades, the problem with Gauthier is the BAD outweighs the good and it's not JUST about trades. You have nothing, you don't like him and it is painfully obvious. "Oh Gauthier wore a blue tie and I don't like blue because my ex-girlfriend had a blue car and she dumped me!!!! "

Oh, and how can we forget the great players we got under his watch as head of pro scouting. Get this clown far away from this team.I know, those 5 players in the world juniors are obviously garbage. Seriously do you follow this team or just Gauthier?

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02-20-2012, 11:47 PM
  #48
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Yes those are some lovely facts you have there that mean almost nothing. Gauthier has entirely inherited this mess and is cleaning it up but I am sure you are the kind of person who blames the janitor when he cleans up someone elses puke. Perfect reasoning.
Pierre Gauthier helped Gainey build the team. While Gainey was the GM, removing Gauthier of any responsibility then bashing Gainey is short sighted. He was his right hand man, his next in line. He had a lot to do with acquiring the players he did.

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02-20-2012, 11:51 PM
  #49
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All that matters is we're 1 point out of LAST in the Eastern conference. Someone needs to answer to that.
Bottom line here.

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02-20-2012, 11:52 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
....
Reading your response, I find it odd that you used to bash Gainey. I mean, the way you've defended some of Gauthier's moves reminds me of the dolts who defended Gainey's moves. The way you've defended the Kaberle, Campoli moves are akin to those who defended the Gomez trade. What in the hell do junior prospects have to do with PRO scouting?

If you're going to be condescending, at least know wtf you're talking about.

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