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Lebrun doesn't think Gauthier will be back as GM

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Old
02-21-2012, 01:34 AM
  #76
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Spacek was a +20 during his time in Montreal. Yes, he was solid defensively, and looks like Scott Stevens next to Kaberle. And Kaberle is known for not shooting. Even when he was having his best seasons with the Leafs his biggest criticism was not shooting enough. Do you watch hockey at all?
I guess it shouldn't shock me that you have no concept of sarcasm. Keep whining about his shot, i'm sure that is why Gauthier traded for him. Spacek was as solid as a newborns first bowel movement, I care not for your +/-


What does him not beign our biggest problem have to do with anything? His salary is a PROBLEM. A Problem your GM created. His salary is a problem? Go find me the average salary of a 40 point dman, and we will see how much kaberle is overpaid by.



Cancer, huh? I thought you didn't pay attention to rumors and hearsay. 37 goals in a year and a half is worthless, huh? Pierre, is that you? Are you still going on about some 3rd liner who can't even look impressive on a offensivly dead team? Cmon quit scraping the bottom of the barrel, gimme something worth my time.
Sadly I know you guys have nothing so i'm off to bed.

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02-21-2012, 01:34 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Singing Markov was a great move. Cannot wait til he's back and bringing us back to reality. If his injury cost us the playoffs this season, fine, whatever, I think we got a lot better by the end and next year will prove to be a huge resurgence. Yes, I think he's coming back and will be just as good. Not signing Markov would have been the stupidest thing ever. Like I said, it's been too long for most to remember what Markov can do (spare me the "pts in the playoffs", he's one of the best D in the league, period).

I don't think PG has done a bad job. Injuries have really made him look bad. He hasn't f'd the franchise over bigtime. Believe it or not, that's actually pretty easy to do. He's also been reactive and has us going in the right direction. I don't mind another year with him to see where this goes. If only we could get those prospects sooner that later.

I'm seriously expecting a Cup (as much as one can) in the next 5 years and a lot of it will be due to PG's moves. If nothing else, thank you for Eller, but also a ton of things people forget about.

That said, Lebrun might be right just cuz the public's opinion of him is so bad due to the reasons I think are overhyped.
The team was expected to compete for a top 4 spot. 2 head coaches, a few new asst. coaches, a language debate, and a bunch of trades later they will finish in the bottom 5. Someone needs to be held accountable for that. The players and coaches are always held accountable, but never the management. Hell, even Gauthier said injuries were not an excuse.

Head coach got canned. Assistant coach got canned. Star player traded....I mean...

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02-21-2012, 01:35 AM
  #78
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All I gotta say is PG isn't as bad as make him seem. I have no problem if we replace him with someone better, but I don't want him gone for the sake of just firing the guy. Guys from the media hate in him because he doesn't give them much access to the team. In regards to his moves, I don't see any big errors, the Skost one but he had his hands tied on that one. The Kaberle deal too isnt as bad as ppl make it seem, only makes 4.25M, 2 years left, 45 point d-men, with Gomez gone next year we have so much cap room even after resigning our key guys, heck you can trade Kaberle for a better return than Spacek, if the rumours are correct Zidlicky can be traded (1 more year at 4M, a lot worse than Kaberle) so can Kaberle.

Also PG has done other things, like changed the scouting staff, it might be too early to tell but they seem to be doing a good job, ex Gallagher, trade for Bournival, even traded for Kaberle as soon as his game was picking up compared to the way he was playing for the Canes.

One more than, if we're going to blame PG for scouting Gomez. Do we give him credit for scouting Gorges?

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02-21-2012, 01:36 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Sadly I know you guys have nothing so i'm off to bed.
Watch the games, then get back to me. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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02-21-2012, 01:37 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Watch the games, then get back to me. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Keep crying, i'm sure gauthier cares deeply for your issues.

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02-21-2012, 01:40 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Keep crying, i'm sure gauthier cares deeply for your issues.
Apparently he does. He apologized about a choice he made because he offended people.

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02-21-2012, 01:41 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Either you have me confused with someone else or you're a bold faced liar.

I was FOR the Martin firing, smart guy

When did I say the Cam trade was strange? I said it was a nonsensical trade.

And then you have the audacity to put these things in quotes as if they have been said? LOL

But lets look at a few things.

The Kaberle deal was the worst deal this year. The Cammy deal is a "meh" deal.

The Lapierre deal last year was nonsensical given that in a lesser role just weeks later, he was traded for a better pick. Not to mention Lapierre is a guy we could use on this team. nice story distortion, he asked to play more or to be traded, he played really bad, he was traded, he is still a scrub in the last news


Signing Campoli right before the season started and giving him a RAISE was another dumb move, that covered up his blunder with Markov...then that blunder was covered up by the Kaberle trade. Great GM, huh So, trusting doctors is a bad move, after all they are a bunch of cash angry rippers that only wanna fool the good ol GMs... No, Markov had a setback, a unpredictable setback in his recovery that pushed his returned until now, but hey, we should have sticked with the mighty Hamrlik and Wiznewski who are currently combining for barely more points and an equal +/- and their teams are not even good for the both of them.

Going into the season with the entire team's fortunes riding on Markov (a guy who has been injured for 2 seasons and coming off an injury) was STUPID! Even WITH Markov, the D corp looked weak. The same D corp that almost had the cup champions beat, only adding Gorges and Markov, only the 2 most important D's this franchise had in the last 6 years you are right, its horrible

Realizing in the middle of the season that we needed to get bigger when everyone and their mother knew this a couple years earlier.
Got eller and shultz last year, drafted Tinordi, Beaulieu, signed Cole, got blunden, hung on AK, Are you even trying? the guy's been there for 2 years, you should play less NHL 2012, seriously

His inability to put together a legitmate 4th line...we've had 4-5 4th line centermen since he's been here. You seem to forget that this is the reality of 75%+ of the teams of the league

Handling any kind of volatility by firing or trade.
Like all Gms do

Firing Pern (very well liked) for really no reason.
The coaching needed to change, and the randys were a very good coaching tandem to bring up

Firing Martin right before a game and adding a guy who has 0 coaching experience in Carriere. Gms fire coachs all the time, it happened everywhere theres nothing to whine about that

Hiring a new coach, then telling the media/fans that he's interim and will not be back next year. Then APOLOGIZING. This is a symptom that is way more about the insane triangle between the habs, the media and the coach, the media backlash was so hard after the cunneyworth hiring that there was no other way any other Gm could have handled it, but your bad faith is funny

Last year at the deadline when Halpern (4th line center) was playing on the 1st line he thought the better solution was to trade picks for dmen who are no longer playing in the league. He then makes up some stupid story about a roof, a hole and a vacation. Defense wins championships, and sopel could have been a great move for us if he did not hurt himself... And Mara was big and tough too, but guess what? got injured too, there's a limit to what a GM can do to react to injuries, but still we still almost beat the bruins

He is a reactive GM who has a checkered history everywhere he's gone. Under Gauthier's watch the team has basically become a laughing stock Tangible proofs of that please? We made some good trades with some respected GMs of the league recently (maloney in phoenix, Poile in Nashville, Feaster and his cup in CGY)


and you want to bring this clown back? Every GM makes poor trades, the problem with Gauthier is the BAD outweighs the good and it's not JUST about trades. The perception of Gauthier very low. The perception of the Habs organization is not a good one.
Yet he got us the best ufa of last summer, he began his selling job really well, and he got us rid of a very bad contract for a lighter one and even proceded to give us 2 interesting prospects/young players with size while doing so... what could he do more? get you the moon?

Oh, and how can we forget the great players we got under his watch as head of pro scouting. Get this clown far away from this team.

The scouts are only there to quantify the skills of the players, no matter what you think happens in your imaginary land, the GM is the one pulling the plug after what the scout said, and in the end, we don't know what was said behind closed doors before the trades went on
Are you even trying?

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Old
02-21-2012, 01:41 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You're happy with invisible Bourque for another 4 years? The fact that the guy didn't even shop Cammy makes me sick to my stomach. I would have kept him...but I guess adding Kaberle made Cammy expendable
And you're happy with Cammy at 6.5M? We traded a problem for another problem (for half the price).

We also got a second rounder.

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02-21-2012, 01:43 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Apparently he does. He apologized about a choice he made because he offended people.
Only person to blame for that is Molson, after PG said French is something that can be learnt, owner and his partners come out with a statement saying that the coach is only an interim coach.

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02-21-2012, 01:44 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You're happy with invisible Bourque for another 4 years? The fact that the guy didn't even shop Cammy makes me sick to my stomach. I would have kept him...but I guess adding Kaberle made Cammy expendable
You are truly clueless if you think that Cammi was not shopped

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02-21-2012, 01:46 AM
  #86
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And you're happy with Cammy at 6.5M? We traded a problem for another problem (for half the price).

We also got a second rounder.
Cammy at 6 and Cammy destroyed the playoffs for us. yah, he sucked this year and pushed his way out, but still not a 'problem' during his duration here.

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02-21-2012, 01:48 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Cammy at 6 and Cammy destroyed the playoffs for us. yah, he sucked this year and pushed his way out, but still not a 'problem' during his duration here.
he also sucked last year, mind you

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02-21-2012, 01:49 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
And you're happy with Cammy at 6.5M? We traded a problem for another problem (for half the price).

We also got a second rounder.
Yeah I was happy with a player who had 16 goals 29 pts and over the last 2 playoffs. I'm less happy with a big stiff who was criticized on national TV for being soft and indifferent.

And Cammy makes 6m a year.

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02-21-2012, 01:52 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
he also sucked last year, mind you
1.43PPG when it counts the most last year.

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02-21-2012, 01:53 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The team was expected to compete for a top 4 spot. 2 head coaches, a few new asst. coaches, a language debate, and a bunch of trades later they will finish in the bottom 5. Someone needs to be held accountable for that. The players and coaches are always held accountable, but never the management. Hell, even Gauthier said injuries were not an excuse.

Head coach got canned. Assistant coach got canned. Star player traded....I mean...

- Markov wasn't cleared to play. It happens. It's sports, and we will still have him. Still a good decision IMO
- Expectations being that high are not his fault. Look at how tight the league is. We could have been 4th (btw with a decent PP, we WOULD be) or where we are, depends on performing, which was out of his hands
- Language debate is not his fault. He made it worse by bending over, but he made the right move IMO.
- The trades have been good. The Kaberle one is easily fixable IF it's deemed to go sour.
- You can't/shouldn't just hold someone accountable for the misfortunes that occur. His decision making was sound. The outcome has not been great.
- If the constant ******** on management isn't being held accountable, I don't know what is. You don't think he is scared of losing his job? I actually like that he's handling the pressure rather well and that he is not prone to doing something stupid. He's made logical moves, not reactionary ones.
- One can say injuries are not an excuse, but at some point, they really are. We haven't had a high draft pick in (well it's quite well documented this season). This makes the performances even more crucial. We have guys that can underperform and there isn't the safety net of Stamkos scoring 40 goals. So injuries + bad performances (they affect one another) are definitely a REASON. Don't call it an excuse if you don't want to, but those are the reasons. I'd say the performance side of things has gotten better since RC.
- Cammy might have been a star, but to identify him as NOT in fact being one and to try to rebuild all around is a good strategy by PG. It will pay off.

Like many people have said, PG's work is not that clearly seen yet. Hold him accountable and fire him, but give him some more time and it really could turn things around. It's just common opinion that he's a bad GM and people start to believe it more than they should. If we go back and track every one of his moves and what his options are, I think we'll see he's done a good job managing this team. Again, it's as ridiculous as the shooutout perhaps deciding our season. Yes, we'd like not to blow all those leads (what is it, 21, 23?), but the defence is learning and tbh there has been some ridiculous bad luck that even performance can't account for.

I think we'll be fine going forward and it's (accountability) thanks to PG.

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02-21-2012, 01:54 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
1.43PPG when it counts the most last year.
you need to have some kind of success in the season for that to happen, For what we know, Devan Dubnyk could be the best playoffs goalie the earth has ever bore, but we won't know until he actually stops enough pucks to actually get there

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02-21-2012, 01:56 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Why is kaberle a terrible move exactly?
Dude, do you watch hockey?

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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Upgraded the defense, took on a semi ok contract that is only for 2 years, when this team is back on track, a proven D like Kaberle can truly make the difference between 1 round of playoffs and 2 or 3. And, 4 millions is peanuts and will likeably be absorbed in the process of the next cap raise
Why are we investing in a player who is a shadow of his former self and paying him big dollars when he can only play on the PP? The playoffs were already not looking good when we picked him up and we could've cashed in Spacek for a prospect or pick. So not only do we stick ourselves with a one dimensional older player with a bad contract but we miss out on stocking up on more prospects and picks.

And we did this in a misguided attempt to get the last playoff spot this year.


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And yet, if he keeps selling and that somehow we continue winning, and end up just out of a playoffs spot, you'll be the first on your soapbox to criticize Gauthier for selling
Why the hell would I criticize Gauthier for selling? How many years have you been on these boards?
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
its the ol' haters rope-a-dope
The only rope a dope here is coming from you and it's not working dude.

Nobody hates PG. We hate the lack of direction he's shown. I couldn't care less about the man except that he's driving my team into the ground with his stupid moves. I only care about seeing us win a cup again. That's it. And while PG has made some interesting moves that I think he should be given credit for (including keeping Carey Price) by and large he hasn't been good and this year has been a disaster.

I could easily overlook our place in the standings if we were trading for the longterm and he had a plan. But he doesn't have a plan. It's all reactionary and despite his efforts (and squandering of tradeable assets) we still find ourselves fighting for last place.

Sorry but I think he should be accountable for this. He inherited a bad situation? Okay, I understand that. But he's made a bad situation worse and he doesn't deserve forgiveness for it.
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You are truly clueless if you think that Cammi was not shopped


Yeah, the guy gets traded in the middle of a game less than 24 hours after his comments. But folks are clueless for believing it was a knee jerk reactive trade.



Again, our boards are no different than the Leaf boards. We defend the hell out of our management no matter what they do. Please don't criticize them for being blind because you are no better than those guys are. We consistently overrate our club and talk like we're one piece away from a cup. The only difference is that we've been better at getting 8th place than they have (although that may change this year.)

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02-21-2012, 01:58 AM
  #93
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you need to have some kind of success in the season for that to happen, For what we know, Devan Dubnyk could be the best playoffs goalie the earth has ever bore, but we won't know until he actually stops enough pucks to actually get there
Okay, so let's figure it out. In cammalleri's total GP and points in first 2 years, he has:

158GP 61G 65A 126PTS

So essentially, he was pretty much a 30 goal, 30 assist guy in our defensive system over 80GP.

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02-21-2012, 02:03 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Okay, so let's figure it out. In cammalleri's total GP and points in first 2 years, he has:

158GP 61G 65A 126PTS

So essentially, he was pretty much a 30 goal, 30 assist guy in our defensive system over 80GP.
IMO one of Gionta or Cammy had to go, trading Cammy was the right choice, using the first two years Gio scored 69 goals in 169 games, and IMO i think we got a good return for Cammy.

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02-21-2012, 02:05 AM
  #95
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IMO one of Gionta or Cammy had to go, trading Cammy was the right choice, using the first two years Gio scored 69 goals in 169 games, and IMO i think we got a good return for Cammy.
I don't disagree with that at all. I just disagree with the notion cammalleri didn't help us in first two years. He did, he and gionta were only ones scoring during playoffs.

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02-21-2012, 02:09 AM
  #96
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I don't disagree with that at all. I just disagree with the notion cammalleri didn't help us in first two years. He did, he and gionta were only ones scoring during playoffs.
Cammy was great in his first year and in the playoffs, but this season and most of last season he wasn't great, out of those goals, 39 came in the first year.

I actually think the emergence of the Patches DD Cole line kinda screwed PG plan and in havin Atleast 1 PWF on each line, that patches dd cole line forced us to use a line with Cammy Plek and Gio, one of the had to go and Cammy waste right choice to let go IMO.

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02-21-2012, 02:13 AM
  #97
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Dude, do you watch hockey?

I do and I still can't understand why a short, tradeable contract gets so much bad rap, the team that will have the guns to shelter him and give him an experienced Defensive partner will be an happy one, no matter the usual whining inevitably associated with the hiring of a 30+ years old player

Why are we investing in a player who is a shadow of his former self and paying him big dollars when he can only play on the PP? The playoffs were already not looking good when we picked him up and we could've cashed in Spacek for a prospect or pick. So not only do we stick ourselves with a one dimensional older player with a bad contract but we miss out on stocking up on more prospects and picks.

Again the good ol' hf systematical disdain of 30+ years old player who strikes again!

And we did this in a misguided attempt to get the last playoff spot this year. Or to righten the ship when playoffs were still a possibility and the season still relatively young



Why the hell would I criticize Gauthier for selling? How many years have you been on these boards? 4 years and counting, and considering the crap gainey still gets for trading Souray, I fail to see why it would be different if we would end up 9th, or 10th

The only rope a dope here is coming from you and it's not working dude. I don't systematically change my coat's side whenever management takes a decision in order to bash it, so no, i'm not doing any rope a dope, im just going against the flow of the torrent of nonsensical half digested hypocritical ******** that comes out of the majority of the management bashers around here

Nobody hates PG. We hate the lack of direction he's shown. I couldn't care less about the man except that he's driving my team into the ground with his stupid moves. I only care about seeing us win a cup again. That's it. And while PG has made some interesting moves that I think he should be given credit for (including keeping Carey Price) by and large he hasn't been good and this year has been a disaster. Define lack of direction, since he took over, the moves he made have in a major way contributed to build a bigger up front and and balanced between size and skill in the backend team and all his moves are consequent to it

I could easily overlook our place in the standings if we were trading for the longterm and he had a plan. But he doesn't have a plan. It's all reactionary and despite his efforts (and squandering of tradeable assets) we still find ourselves fighting for last place. And yet, the next 2 summers, we'll have the biggest number of 2nd round picks we ever had since a long time, and, next year, we probably won't have enough spots in hamilton to stash the next core defenseman

Sorry but I think he should be accountable for this. He inherited a bad situation? Okay, I understand that. But he's made a bad situation worse and he doesn't deserve forgiveness for it. His tenure is 2 years, and 3 drafts, which means that next year will be the first year the prospects he drafted will graduate, I think you are being premature in this judgement



Yeah, the guy gets traded in the middle of a game less than 24 hours after his comments. But folks are clueless for believing it was a knee jerk reactive trade.

So the declaration overrides in your eyes the fact that he flat out sucked the whole year and that he looked like he didn't even tried anymore?



Again, our boards are no different than the Leaf boards. We defend the hell out of our management no matter what they do. Please don't criticize them for being blind because you are no better than those guys are. We consistently overrate our club and talk like we're one piece away from a cup. I never said anything like that, I just say that this teams had horrible luck all year long and that a fire everyone movement is really premature The only difference is that we've been better at getting 8th place than they have (although that may change this year.)
Anything else?

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02-21-2012, 02:14 AM
  #98
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Cammy was great in his first year and in the playoffs, but this season and most of last season he wasn't great, out of those goals, 39 came in the first year.
69 points in 84GP 0.82PPG

57 Points in 74GP 0.77PPG

Still good IMO.

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02-21-2012, 02:16 AM
  #99
Iwishihadacup
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69 points in 84GP 0.82PPG

57 Points in 74GP 0.77PPG

Still good IMO.
still not worth 6.5 and his bad defensive play

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02-21-2012, 02:18 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
69 points in 84GP 0.82PPG

57 Points in 74GP 0.77PPG

Still good IMO.
Sorry I edited my post, trying to show why I think one of him or Gio had to go, it's not that Cammy was a bad player, but he was expected to score goals and he slowly has declined in doing that the past 2 seasons.

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