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Lebrun doesn't think Gauthier will be back as GM

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Old
02-21-2012, 09:55 AM
  #151
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
He said if it was him he'd have fired him after the Kaberle trade.
Logic, logic, logic. The Molsons were aware that the Habs had an ineffective power play and they must have heard of Kaberle's reputation as a power play specialist. Assuming they wanted the Habs to make the playoffs because of the financial rewards, wouldn't they want Kaberle instead of Spacek, who was doing nothing to help the power play?

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02-21-2012, 09:55 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
I actually thought that Andre Savard started to turn this organization around in his time here as GM, Gainey did a good job continuing that however slowly after the lockout Gainey just kept getting worse.
Ironic that Savard was pushed aside to make room for Gainey, then pushed out of the organization to make room for Gauthier. And here we are.

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02-21-2012, 10:00 AM
  #153
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People complains about PG not telling to which team Gill/spacek were traded.
You just dont want to have PG anymore. you are finding reason to kick him out.

Even if we get Stamkos for a 2nd round pick, people will complain


the last trade hurt the haters so they found a detail to feed themselves

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02-21-2012, 10:02 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Ironic that Savard was pushed aside to make room for Gainey, then pushed out of the organization to make room for Gauthier. And here we are.
I doubt that Gainey was pushed out. If so, why is he still hanging around? Your endless speculations about Gauthier are tiresome. Get yourself a reliable source instead of confusing your subjective musings with fact. You belie your screen name. When it comes to Gauthier, you're not an uncertain agnostic, you're a self-convinced atheist.

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02-21-2012, 10:05 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
People complains about PG not telling to which team Gill/spacek were traded.
You just dont want to have PG anymore. you are finding reason to kick him out.

Even if we get Stamkos for a 2nd round pick, people will complain
Do you believe this?

Fans have been fairly unanimous that trading Gill for the return received was fair value and good for the team in the long run.

When Gauthier is fired the discussion won't be about 2nd round picks, Markov, Kaberle or Kostitsyn, it will be about the big picture - poor results, lack of vision, leadership weaknesses.

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02-21-2012, 10:15 AM
  #156
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Keeping Price over Halak was a huge decision to make, and he made it at the right time.

Awesome return for Gill.
Awesome signing in Cole.
Brought us Emelin, Diaz in here.
Resigned Gorges long term.

Bad move with Kaberle... but I'd let him his chance this summer to see what he can pull out with Gomez and Kaberle.

But seriously, all around, is he that bad, or are we just trying to find a reason for all the bad results?

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02-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by DohDog View Post
Keeping Price over Halak was a huge decision to make, and he made it at the right time.

Awesome return for Gill.
Awesome signing in Cole.
Brought us Emelin, Diaz in here.
Resigned Gorges long term.

Bad move with Kaberle... but I'd let him his chance this summer to see what he can pull out with Gomez and Kaberle.

But seriously, all around, is he that bad, or are we just trying to find a reason for all the bad results?
exactly
as a habs hater, PG was behind all the BAD trades that BG made

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02-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DohDog View Post
Keeping Price over Halak was a huge decision to make, and he made it at the right time.

Awesome return for Gill.
Awesome signing in Cole.
Brought us Emelin, Diaz in here.
Resigned Gorges long term.

Bad move with Kaberle... but I'd let him his chance this summer to see what he can pull out with Gomez and Kaberle.

But seriously, all around, is he that bad, or are we just trying to find a reason for all the bad results?
That's the way I see it DohDog, but some people just focus on the negatives. I mean, he didn't win us a cup after all. He must be a terrible GM? *shrug*

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02-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I doubt that Gainey was pushed out. If so, why is he still hanging around? Your endless speculations about Gauthier are tiresome. Get yourself a reliable source instead of confusing your subjective musings with fact. You belie your screen name. When it comes to Gauthier, you're not an uncertain agnostic, you're a self-convinced atheist.
I said Savard was pushed out, not Gainey.

Am I speculating about Gauthier any more than anyone else who is reading this thread, or Pierre Lebrun? Lebrun is credible and connected, he's predicting the GM's demise and this is the topic at hand.

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02-21-2012, 10:25 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I said Savard was pushed out, not Gainey.

Am I speculating about Gauthier any more than anyone else who is reading this thread, or Pierre Lebrun? Lebrun is credible and connected, he's predicting the GM's demise and this is the topic at hand.
I do believe PG will not be back with the team next season.

I believe its for the bad reasons though. He is not an atrocious GM,
He made many good trades and some bad

Lebrun is credible and its more probable to see PG fired than back next season

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02-21-2012, 11:02 AM
  #161
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I really can't get all the Gauthier hate. His job is to get us the best players available, how they will perform is out of his reach. As far as i'm concerned, he has maximised his assets in every trade he has made. Kaberle for Spacek ? Yes the contract is bad, but that was out of his control.
Kaberle is slow, so is Spacek. Kaberle is soft, so is Spacek. Kaberle is a liability, so is Spacek. Kaberle can QB a powerplay, so can...oh wait..

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02-21-2012, 11:05 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
I really can't get all the Gauthier hate. His job is to get us the best players available, how they will perform is out of his reach. As far as i'm concerned, he has maximised his assets in every trade he has made. Kaberle for Spacek ? Yes the contract is bad, but that was out of his control.
Kaberle is slow, so is Spacek. Kaberle is soft, so is Spacek. Kaberle is a liability, so is Spacek. Kaberle can QB a powerplay, so can...oh wait..
That makes no sense.

When you trade for a bad contract, it's out of your control?

And Spacek can actually play defense, unlike Kaberle. How you try to make it seem like Spacek is all-around terrible when he was a rock for us in the playoffs and always had a good +/- on the team is truely a great example of Habs brass nuthugging.

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02-21-2012, 11:13 AM
  #163
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I cannot understand how people "don't get the hate for PG" when we have one of the worst records in the league and it's his responsibility for the product on the ice.

What am I missing?

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02-21-2012, 11:15 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
I can't believe some people are approving of Kaberle's trade. Spacek, a better defensive D with no more years left, for Kaberle, two years left, can only pass on the PP, sucks in our own end...

Yes, our PP went from 30th in the league to 29th! We still suck.
Actually, it's tied at 27th now

To be fair though, our PP improved since Kaberle joined. Maybe statistically, not a whole lot. But I don't think people really remember just how bad it was earlier. We couldn't even get into the opponent's zone, it truly was pathetic. At least since he joined we can settle in the zone and get some chances.

The trade isn't the best, but it isn't the ''OH MY GOD!!!'' insanely bad one as most like to pretend too. Give Kaberle a good lefty shot and our PP could flourish. I've been waiting for them to put Emelin there all year, still hasn't been done other than a couple tries. I blame the coaching staff for our poor PP more so than our group of players.

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02-21-2012, 11:17 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
I cannot understand how people "don't get the hate for PG" when we have one of the worst records in the league and it's his responsibility for the product on the ice.

What am I missing?
He is responsible for what he brought to the team, not what was there when he took over. The only player i can blame him for is Campoli. But he was still a back-up for a plan A that backfired ( Markov, which you can blame the doctors for, not PG ). Campoli wasn't supposed to play if Markov was healthy. So one plan that backfired, caused the other to backfire as well.

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02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Ask Boston if they wanted to keep him despite winning the cup with him? Nope.

We need a physical top 4 D. Not Kaberle. That's why we suck. We had Subban, Weber, Diaz, Spacek as guys who can move the puck well. Now...we have kaberle. I think we even lost more after getting kaberle. He's a good offensive d-man but we have guys already and if PG felt markov would've been back soon(before set back), why do we need an inferior player in kaberle?
Um, well Chiarelli tried to negotiate a new contract with him up to the point he signed in Carolina, so that would indicate they did want him back.

They didn't want him for the price and term that he was able to negotiate from another team (Chiarelli particuarly noting the term as a stumbling block), but that's not exactly the same thing.

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02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
He is responsible for what he brought to the team, not what was there when he took over. The only player i can blame him for is Campoli. But he was still a back-up for a plan A that backfired ( Markov, which you can blame the doctors for, not PG ). Campoli wasn't supposed to play if Markov was healthy. So one plan that backfired, caused the other to backfire as well.
Sure he is responsible for what he took over. If they aren't working - change them. Plus his hands are all over a bunch of Gainey's moves. It's been proven.

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02-21-2012, 11:24 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Sure he is responsible for what he took over. If they aren't working - change them. Plus his hands are all over a bunch of Gainey's moves. It's been proven.
I guess i'll have to explain more. New manager X is not reponsible for the transactions that manager Y before him did. Yes his job is to change whatever isn't functioning but it's easier said than done. Some players can not be moved because of no interest, it happens. Some players have no trade clauses, it happens too. So please tell me, what is it that isn't working that he should move that he actually can move ?

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02-21-2012, 11:31 AM
  #169
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I honestly don't think the Kaberle trade is that bad. The guy is producing and his salary&contract, while bad, isn't an anchor like Gomez. Four or five years ago this contract would have been horrible but the cap has gone up by a lot since then, he's paid a lot less less than 10% of the cap. Furthermore he has bounced back since he left Carolina, at least offensively, and that has brought his value up. There is still hope he gets better and if we don't want to keep him I'm sure we can get more for him now than a Spacek.

Carolina basically gave him to us so all the better if we can turn him into something useful.

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02-21-2012, 11:39 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I honestly don't think the Kaberle trade is that bad. The guy is producing and his salary&contract, while bad, isn't an anchor like Gomez. Four or five years ago this contract would have been horrible but the cap has gone up by a lot since then, he's paid a lot less less than 10% of the cap. Furthermore he has bounced back since he left Carolina, at least offensively, and that has brought his value up. There is still hope he gets better and if we don't want to keep him I'm sure we can get more for him now than a Spacek.

Carolina basically gave him to us so all the better if we can turn him into something useful.
I think we'd need to get him to start using a grown up's stick

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02-21-2012, 11:45 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I honestly don't think the Kaberle trade is that bad. The guy is producing and his salary&contract, while bad, isn't an anchor like Gomez. Four or five years ago this contract would have been horrible but the cap has gone up by a lot since then, he's paid a lot less less than 10% of the cap. Furthermore he has bounced back since he left Carolina, at least offensively, and that has brought his value up. There is still hope he gets better and if we don't want to keep him I'm sure we can get more for him now than a Spacek.

Carolina basically gave him to us so all the better if we can turn him into something useful.
If, let's say, Carolina turns Spacek into a draft pick in the next week, does the trade look any different?

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02-21-2012, 11:51 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
FWIW

Last year everyone had wilson from ottawa pegged as a goner
fast forward to this year and he's still around and the team is in the hunt for a play-off spot. Who woulda thunk it?
hopefully the old stringbean is gone after this season and any one who misses him badly just follow him to his mysterious island retreat!!

i get a good laugh when some get all antsy when there is rumours of goat being axed!! LOl- you gotta be kidding!! LOL

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02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Sure he is responsible for what he took over. If they aren't working - change them. Plus his hands are all over a bunch of Gainey's moves. It's been proven.
It's actually never been proven. But it doesn't matter anyways as he had a different role and nobody here has an idea of how things went down behind closed doors.

You keep coming back to this year and how we're so bad. Well even if it were true, you don't fire someone because of one year.
You're better off questioning the handling of Lappy, SK, Pouliot, D'Ago, etc..

A fan can sit behind his cpu screen and criticize on how bad it was to re-sign Markov, like many have. But behind closed doors, if he gets a report from the medical staff saying Markov is doing well and on pace to start the year, and I'm sure the owner knows it as well, so I don't see how Molson could blame PG for that.

But I think it's pretty stupid to say he should get fired because we're having a bad year due to his decisions. We're having a bad year because quite a few of our players under performed or got injured again, Plekanec, AK, Gionta, Cammy, Spacek, Gomez haven't been all that good. The guys PG brought in, Cole, Emelin and Diaz have done quite well. Markov is a medical staff mistake, and in any event, it's a risk I personally would take over and over again, you just don't take a risk on letting such a skilled player go, no matter how big of a question mark he is.
I said it earlier, biggest mistake was re-signing Gill instead of going after a replacement for Hammer. But that was fixed when he traded him.
The Kaberle trade can raise some eye brows, but it really isn't as bad as most make it sound.
Cammy's trade isn't the best, and I'm sure he could have gotten more had he waited closer to deadline. But we still got a top 6 player, a pick, a prospect and 2M of added space. Not so bad.


People just hate Gauthier. So whatever mistake he's done gets overblown by tenfold, and whatever good move isn't credited as much.
And don't get me wrong, I have no issues with him being fired. I think it will depend on how things go until the Deadline and for the end of the year.

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02-21-2012, 12:02 PM
  #174
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I also believe Gauthier will be replaced in the off-season. Not because he's been a horrible GM. Oh, he's made his fair share of bonehead decisions, but he's done some things right as well. I won't list all the good and bad since all of you have already done that. At any rate, that's not the point. His track record (only as GM, not as pro scout) would put him at about average for the league and I think this franchise should be swinging for the fences rather than settling for mediocrity.
In 2003, Pierre Boivin and George Gillette made a bold decision: they replaced their decent GM, Andre Savard with a Montreal icon, Bob Gainey. Fine, 9 years later we're no closer to being a contender, but they made a calculated decision to try and propel their club into perpetual contender status. As it turns out, Bob's game plan was not what Stanley Cups are made of, but I'm glad the organization took that shot. He probably should have been shown the door earlier, but let's let bygones be bygones.
Take Toronto for instance. We can deride the Leafs the live long day, but they most definitely swung for the fence with Burke, Nonis and Dudley. I, myself don't like Burke, but he does come with a winning track record and is respected around the league. It might not work out in the long run, but they have a solid management team in place with a very clear definition of what Leafs hockey is. Same goes for the Bruins Wings, Nucks, etc.
Who are the Habs? What is Canadiens hockey in 2012? Molson needs to be posing these questions to himself and doing his homework from now to April. If it's Pierre McGuire with Blair Mackasey as asst. and Scotty Bowman as an advisor, then do everything in your power to make that happen, Geoff! Maybe it's Jim Nill or Patrick Roy or...Brad Pitt, for crissake!! (he did a good job in Oakland ) Whomever matches the philosophy of the team and is absolutely, 100% committed to winning.
Swing for the fences, Geoff!!

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02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
If, let's say, Carolina turns Spacek into a draft pick in the next week, does the trade look any different?
Not really, if PG wanted to trade Kaberle, he could get a better return than for Spacek. Canes traded Kaberle at his lowest value, and since join the Habs his play has picked up. Look around the league, there are rumors the devils might get Zidlikcy, who is worse than Kaberle defensively and offensive and has 1 more year at 4M. I bet any team interest in Zidlikcy would much rather have Kaberle even with the extra year and the 250K


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