Dave King. He should never have been fired in the first place. Sorry Palinka, while I respect most of what you say I think the CBJ need an established NHL coach. After the Arniel failure I don't want another coach with no NHL experience.
No way Keenan should be allowed anywhere near the locker room. You thought Arniel's attitude and personality were toxic, that's nothing compared to what Keenan would do.
I did a quick search on coaches who were last active as a head coach between 2000 and the present, with at least 4 years of NHL experience. Here's the list, with age as of Dec. 31, 2012.
John Muckler - 78
Bob Pulford - 76
Butch Goring - 63
Lorne Henning - 60
Scotty Bowman - 79
Kevin Constantine - 54
Ron Low - 62
Curt Fraser - 54
Robby Ftorek - 60
Dave King - 65
Al MacNeil - 77
Rick Bowness - 57
Rick Dudley - 63
Bobby Francis - 54
Doug MacLean - 58
Brian SUtter - 56
Larry Robinson - 61
Dave Lewis - 59
Al Arbour - 80
Glen Hanlon - 55
Bryan Murray - 70
Bob Hartley - 52
Ted Nolan - 54
John Paddock - 58
Bob Gainey - 59
Wayne Gretzky - 51
Craig Hartsburg - 53
Mike Keenan - 63
Craig MacTavish - 54
Barry Melrose - 56
Michel Therrien - 49
Andy Murray - 61
Pat Quinn - 69
Marc Crawford - 51
Jacques Lemaire - 67
Dave King. He should never have been fired in the first place. Sorry Palinka, while I respect most of what you say I think the CBJ need an established NHL coach. After the Arniel failure I don't want another coach with no NHL experience.
No way Keenan should be allowed anywhere near the locker room. You thought Arniel's attitude and personality were toxic, that's nothing compared to what Keenan would do.
Spot on. Look at what he and Tippett are doing with a bunch of no names really. How he won any games with the talent we had at expansion was a mystery. Now they're setting up for another playoff run.
If the Jackets are in the "we made mistakes" mode, than we can admit we made another mistake by firing Dave King.
Also, 4 former Blue Jackets on that team is no coincidence.
Or Johansen isnt ready for the NHL yet, which is what I think it is.
Youre not going to get a 'well, we're out of it, so lets play the kids' from a guy who's auditioning for a job
Dont agree at all. Wasnt he recently at the all star game ? He was second leading goal scorer for a while. Richards is doing to Johansen, what Arniel did to Brassard. And personally for a team that appears to be going the nuclear rebuild plan, it will be a big strike against him with Howson, since the majority of the team will be up and comers.
This. Dave King needs to be brought back in the organization to be in charge of scouting and player development - but at a higher level than most organizations. We have lost ground to make up.
ABSOLUTELY!
King has coached at every level and on both sides of the Atlantic. His Rolodex of hockey contacts is hard to beat. He's seen everything and should have a great handle on how Junior skills translate to the NHL. Also he should have a good grasp of what each prospects needs to do in order to be an NHL player. Would he leave Phoenix to come here? Would it hurt to ask?
Have you guys watched RyJo play he plays slow, lazy, and tired. He needed a good benching. That coupled with the team "sort of clicking" all of the sudden there you don't change anything.
Stop using the AllStar game apperance as a reason "he is good" or "deserves to play". There are only so many rookies every year and even less if you take out the fourth line/grinder types. The only reason he made an appearance is because the Blue Jackets did not have a rep and he was drafted 4th overall. Thats not a reason to play him.
I really don't feel you can compare the Richards/RyJo situation to the Arniel/Brass.
Dont agree at all. Wasnt he recently at the all star game ? He was second leading goal scorer for a while. Richards is doing to Johansen, what Arniel did to Brassard. And personally for a team that appears to be going the nuclear rebuild plan, it will be a big strike against him with Howson, since the majority of the team will be up and comers.
Thats fine, its your opinion, and mine is mine. I dont believe he's ready for the NHL, only reason he was on the roster IMO was because he wasnt able to be sent to the AHL (and it wasnt an overly difficult roster to make). And if playing who he thinks should be in the lineup is a strike against him with Howson, maybe he should come back then!
Last edited by BluejacketNut: 02-21-2012 at 11:07 AM.
I did a quick search on coaches who were last active as a head coach between 2000 and the present, with at least 4 years of NHL experience. Here's the list, with age as of Dec. 31, 2012.
Kevin Constantine - 54
Ted Nolan - 54
Michel Therrien - 49
Out of that largely sorry list of retreads, these are the only three who jump off the page at me.
Nolan is an excellent coach, and dare I say he'd be bound for the Hall of Fame if not for various off-ice issues.
I'm torn on Therrien. One day I think he's better than most people think, the next day I think that he rode along with good talent and anyone could do what he did.
However, I absolutely love Kevin Constantine. When he started in San Jose's system in the IHL, he was given a bunch of misfits, has-beens, and never-would-bes. They won the championship. They nearly repeated the next year. When he got moved up to San Jose, the Sharks had come off seasons of 37 and 24 points. Constantine's first year, they got 82 and knocked off the #1 seed Red Wings, then nearly knocked off the Maple Leafs.
But most important is that a lot of guys who should have had short careers ended up sticking around for a long time. There were veterans like Larionov and Makarov, but there were some seriously one-dimensional players with bad reputations. That's in addition to the complete lack of talent. Someone like Christian Backman would have been the #2 defenseman on that team by a mile.
There are few people who are more universally respected in the world of hockey than Constantine. He's somewhere in that realm of Dave King and Ken Hitchcock as far as knowledge, development, and demanding absolute effort at all times.
Oh, and Craig Patrick fired him in Pittsburgh. That was in a post-Stanley Cup world, when the fact that there simply wasn't much talent was obscured by the fact that Jaromir Jagr was still around. Basically, they were dead in the water, but no one was willing to accept it.
This. Dave King needs to be brought back in the organization to be in charge of scouting and player development - but at a higher level than most organizations. We have lost ground to make up.
Make him a vice president. Call it VP of player personnel.
Give him the jobs you mention but also make certain he gets ice time to teach. What a valuable resource he would turn out to be. He would explain what it means to be a Blue Jacket. Call it the "Blue Jacket Way"
I'm going to jump on the Dave King boat. The question would be, would he even consider coming back?
Who knows. To this point Howson hasn't seemed interested in talking to him. So, does it really matter?
If I became the GM asking the league for permission to talk to him would be one of the first things I would do. Get the lay of the land and see where he stood.
Hiring him was probably the smartest thing Dougie did when he was here. Firing him was probably the dumbest.
Unless you can get a top name with great experience, I say you just stick with Richards. I'd rather have Richards over taking another chance on an unproven.
I also like the Dave King idea...
or maybe even Dougie Mac (ok kidding on that one).
Have you guys watched RyJo play he plays slow, lazy, and tired. He needed a good benching. That coupled with the team "sort of clicking" all of the sudden there you don't change anything.
Stop using the AllStar game apperance as a reason "he is good" or "deserves to play". There are only so many rookies every year and even less if you take out the fourth line/grinder types. The only reason he made an appearance is because the Blue Jackets did not have a rep and he was drafted 4th overall. Thats not a reason to play him.
I really don't feel you can compare the Richards/RyJo situation to the Arniel/Brass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Glover
Make him a vice president. Call it VP of player personnel.
Give him the jobs you mention but also make certain he gets ice time to teach. What a valuable resource he would turn out to be. He would explain what it means to be a Blue Jacket. Call it the "Blue Jacket Way"
I wanted to address the first post earlier, but it ties directly into the second too well.
Very few teams have ever had success implementing some type of top-to-bottom system. The reasons are twofold. One is because it's normally put together either by some yahoo who doesn't know what he's talking about, or, barring that, it's put together by a committee and it ends up so convoluted that it defies logic. The other is that, with that possible end game in mind, almost no one has ever tried it.
It has worked in baseball because baseball is literally a combination of individual skills. In football or hockey, which are largely system-driven, it's not quite the same. Regardless, there are certain things in hockey that are absolute. If there's a manual that were devoted to nothing but strength training, conditioning, and proper nutrition, it'd be an improvement. I don't think many people paying for tickets realize exactly how little the average athlete knows about any of that. And I don't mean the idea that four pounds of Skittles are more fun to eat than four pounds of cabbage, I mean that athletes have no idea how or what to eat and little idea how or what to condition.
To the first post here, Johansen looks that way because he's never had to play at this high of a level. Besides adjusting to the speed of the game, he's also getting fatigued more quickly. This isn't uncommon at all in young players or in Mike Commodore. Someone who's getting winded sooner than ever before is going to start pacing himself on the ice, and his recovery time will suffer as well. Does anyone else remember Dan Fritsche going 15 minutes without a shift, then sounding like he'd just run a marathon during an intermission interview?
Johansen will be fine once he learns this stuff. But it can't be up to a group of people sitting in a boardroom, sneering down and talking about how they shouldn't have to have someone tell them how to do it because great-grandpappy once made cross-country skis out of two barrel staves and went through a blizzard to find a bag full of corncobs to feed his starving family and how can a pro athlete making all this money not know how to eat, dagnabbit?
Who knows. To this point Howson hasn't seemed interested in talking to him. So, does it really matter?
If I became the GM asking the league for permission to talk to him would be one of the first things I would do. Get the lay of the land and see where he stood.
Hiring him was probably the smartest thing Dougie did when he was here. Firing him was probably the dumbest.
With all due respect to his sainted memory, there's probably a good reason D.K. has not been tapped by anyone else in the NHL as head coach.
GUESS: If we hire an experienced GM with credentials, they can bring in a coach of some stature with whom they have ties, whereas, SH likely cannot attract such talent, especially after the Hitch firing and subsequent resurrection.
With all due respect to his sainted memory, there's probably a good reason D.K. has not been tapped by anyone else in the NHL as head coach.
GUESS: If we hire an experienced GM with credentials, they can bring in a coach of some stature with whom they have ties, whereas, SH likely cannot attract such talent, especially after the Hitch firing and subsequent resurrection.
The Arniel hire was critical, and it ended up a massive failure. Thank goodness Howson and Priest will have another voice helping to guide this process. If nothing else, it should produce at least a little better in the results category.
Regardless, there are certain things in hockey that are absolute. If there's a manual that were devoted to nothing but strength training, conditioning, and proper nutrition, it'd be an improvement. I don't think many people paying for tickets realize exactly how little the average athlete knows about any of that.
Strength, conditioning, and diet are concepts that very few people in the world know enough about. Since athlete are constantly moving they believe they are in excellent condition. They may be (compared to most of us, most certainly), but they aren't likely is as good of condition as they think they are.
Concepts on those three are a work in progress and have evolved greatly in the last 10-20 years, after periods of de-evolution.
In this case I believe you are 100% right on Johansen.
If I had had the tools in high school and college that I have now on those three items you listed, I would have been in far better condition (not to mention far stronger). That would have had dramatic results on the court.
Even today in the area's of diet, I am seeing a lot of contradictory information. In addition, I hear what some of these players eat and they don't realize how their diet is affecting them on the ice.
Strength, conditioning, and diet are concepts that very few people in the world know enough about. Since athlete are constantly moving they believe they are in excellent condition. They may be (compared to most of us, most certainly), but they aren't likely is as good of condition as they think they are.
Concepts on those three are a work in progress and have evolved greatly in the last 10-20 years, after periods of de-evolution.
In this case I believe you are 100% right on Johansen.
If I had had the tools in high school and college that I have now on those three items you listed, I would have been in far better condition (not to mention far stronger). That would have had dramatic results on the court.
Even today in the area's of diet, I am seeing a lot of contradictory information. In addition, I hear what some of these players eat and they don't realize how their diet is affecting them on the ice.
One area where the franchise has traditionally fallen flat is in preparing young players for any type of life away from the ice. It's not a CBJ problem solely, but that's not the point.
The average junior player spends his time working on skills on the ice and screwing around off the ice, with workouts that look a lot like what a typical unguided 17-year-old at a gym would do. Junior teams do a poor job of providing any guidance in any way, which is natural in a system that inherently treats everyone like a piece of meat.
If you get the chance, see if you can find the NHL combine numbers and compare the NCAA players' numbers to the CHL. It's not merely noticeable, it's a staggering difference across the board. It's amazing what happens when there's a bit of guidance. The problem with plucking kids out of junior hockey is that they've never had that and really need it.
One of the jobs of any type of player development should be on this exact thing. Concoct a manual that covers diet, nutrition, and conditioning. Re-open the offseason boot camp and make it as close to mandatory as you can. Work in conjunction with either Columbus State or the in-house food staff so that these guys have an idea of how to cook something more complicated than toast and Pop Tarts. And if someone at the top says that that is incompatible with a professional atmosphere, knock their teeth down their throat. It won't help things and it might result in felony charges, but it'd send a message.
I'm not saying it's the answer, but the CBJ did have sessions during this last rookie camp regarding food and nutrition, including teaching them how to cook as well as what to cook. This was done specifically in an effort to keep them away from 'junk'. It seems the CBJ understand it's an issue and are at least doing something about it.
On topic, I like Richards, but I want someone more established. I wondered when they hired Richards though, if the way it went with Arniel wasn't already on Howson's mind... Remember the comments about bringing someone in with head coaching experience to 'help' Arniel? Kind of reminds you of the reasoning behind bringing in a Patrick...
Last edited by SuperGenius: 02-22-2012 at 11:38 PM.
Too bad we don't have our own Brind'Amour, who, last I knew, was an assistant/development coach for the Hurricanes. Unless Prospal is the hope there? (I don't recall reading anything about him and fitness, but that doesn't mean there wasn't something.) Thinking back over the years, we haven't seen many stories about fitness nuts on the Jackets. I'm pretty sure Richardson was one, though.
I wanted to address the first post earlier, but it ties directly into the second too well.
Very few teams have ever had success implementing some type of top-to-bottom system. The reasons are twofold. One is because it's normally put together either by some yahoo who doesn't know what he's talking about, or, barring that, it's put together by a committee and it ends up so convoluted that it defies logic. The other is that, with that possible end game in mind, almost no one has ever tried it.
It has worked in baseball because baseball is literally a combination of individual skills. In football or hockey, which are largely system-driven, it's not quite the same. Regardless, there are certain things in hockey that are absolute. If there's a manual that were devoted to nothing but strength training, conditioning, and proper nutrition, it'd be an improvement. I don't think many people paying for tickets realize exactly how little the average athlete knows about any of that. And I don't mean the idea that four pounds of Skittles are more fun to eat than four pounds of cabbage, I mean that athletes have no idea how or what to eat and little idea how or what to condition.
To the first post here, Johansen looks that way because he's never had to play at this high of a level. Besides adjusting to the speed of the game, he's also getting fatigued more quickly. This isn't uncommon at all in young players or in Mike Commodore. Someone who's getting winded sooner than ever before is going to start pacing himself on the ice, and his recovery time will suffer as well. Does anyone else remember Dan Fritsche going 15 minutes without a shift, then sounding like he'd just run a marathon during an intermission interview?
Johansen will be fine once he learns this stuff. But it can't be up to a group of people sitting in a boardroom, sneering down and talking about how they shouldn't have to have someone tell them how to do it because great-grandpappy once made cross-country skis out of two barrel staves and went through a blizzard to find a bag full of corncobs to feed his starving family and how can a pro athlete making all this money not know how to eat, dagnabbit?
The other issue with RyJo is consistency, which is absolutely going to be the case with any rookie.
Take the San Jose game. I thought he played a great game that night even though he did not figure in the scoring. And, how about that monster (legal) hit that led to the Umberger fight?
The kid is taking his lumps this year. Some games he is very good, and some games, not so much. He will learn from this and be a better player for it.
I have really no feel for the guy at this point. If they kept him on for a one full season tryout, I doubt I'd be upset. That being said, he also hasn't done anything to earn the job.
I'm curious what criteria, if any, Howson will apply to him.
He's lost more than he has won. He has managed to coach an offense from terrible to awful, but he has managed to change the defense from awful to terrible and even decent on some nights. I'll be very disappointed if this joke is retained.
Personally I don't want Todd Richards retained as head coach next year but that will be decided by the CBJ management which will probably include Mike Priest and Scott Howson.
The question is, who should coach the Blue Jackets next season in your opinion?.
I'm indifferent on Richards coming back next year but I think we absolutely need a Richards or Noel type coach. I don't think it's a coincidence that Brassard, Moore, and Savard have all elevated their games since Richards took over.
If we hire another hardass, defensive-oriented coach like Hitch or Arniel, we're destined to repeat the same results.
__________________
Truth should never get in the way of a good persecution complex.
2.26 goals per game since Richards came on board. While Brassard has elevated his game, Johansen has fallen hard. Moore and Savard are getting better because they are playing more and learning more as they play. Johansen has been constantly sat.
So lets recap, our #4 pick is being sat to play Gillies (13 career points) in the top 6. When he is played, Gillies (13 career points) still plays in the top 6. He is also sat over guys like Russell (2 career points) and Letstu (a whopping 12 points for us this year). I'm still baffled the most by Gillies in the top 6 and I still don't get Letstu in the top 6. What was the point in not sending Johansen back down if he wasn't going to play with skilled players?
He doesn't switch his lines up ever in a game it seem until the last few with Johansen in the lineup. We aren't scoring goals, does he ever even try to run out a Prospal Carter Nash line? Nope, not until the last couple of games. This guy is just as bad as the guy he replaced, maybe even worse. The powerplay is better but the 5 on 5 play is a lot worse, this guy can't be seriously brought back just because Brassard, one of the most uncoachable players in the game, is doing better.
