EVANDER KANE IS 20 ****ING YEARS OLD PEOPLE. I think some people need to use that patience that this board so emphatically preached earlier in the year.
I don't think people are saying hes not going to be any good but I think most including myself think that Nail will be better. Its rare to see the skill set Nail has, I think Kane can be a top 30 scorer for most of his career, however Nail has the potential to be a top 10 player league wide.
I don't think people are saying hes not going to be any good but I think most including myself think that Nail will be better. Its rare to see the skill set Nail has, I think Kane can be a top 30 scorer for most of his career, however Nail has the potential to be a top 10 player league wide.
I think it's the fact that people are over critiquing Kane's game and acting like he won't get much better when the fact of the matter is the sky is the limit for this kid. Wheeler is JUST NOW coming into his own at 25. Imagine Kane when he actually fills out. He can still gain anywhere from 10 to 20 pounds, and that will likely be in his legs. His upper body is filled out pretty good but he can still add a lot to his lower body strength.
People just need to take a step back with these KIDS we have on this team and give them a god dam chance to get better.
CBJ wouldn't trade their 1st pick for Kane anyways and Chevy would be an idiot to trade a top 10 pick and Kane for that pick so it's all moot anyways.
I think it's the fact that people are over critiquing Kane's game and acting like he won't get much better when the fact of the matter is the sky is the limit for this kid. Wheeler is JUST NOW coming into his own at 25. Imagine Kane when he actually fills out. He can still gain anywhere from 10 to 20 pounds, and that will likely be in his legs. His upper body is filled out pretty good but he can still add a lot to his lower body strength.
People just need to take a step back with these KIDS we have on this team and give them a god dam chance to get better.
CBJ wouldn't trade their 1st pick for Kane anyways and Chevy would be an idiot to trade a top 10 pick and Kane for that pick so it's all moot anyways.
Very true CBJ never does the trade anyway, as for Kane, even if this is all he is its still pretty darn good. Look what Kessel was traded for, and Kane is at least equal to Kessels value. So what if he never develops a physical game, or never becomes a great passer guys that can put up 30 goals are hard to find.
I wouldn't take it. I might trade someone else for first overall, but not E. Kane. One of the biggest problems this jets team seems to have us an offense that struggles.
So I guess the solution would be to trade our leading goal scorer? Personally I think getting a top tier center and putting Kane on the same line as the guy that leads the team in assists might help.
He'll still develop, and the fact that hid numbers have gone up over the last few years proves that.
Yakupov is not god's gift to hockey. He's just a draft pick, and chances are he'll spend the better part of two years playing for the ice caps before he hits the NHL full time.
But let's get rid if our goal leader for someone that will not match his totals because he'll be playing for St. John's.
I wouldn't take it. I might trade someone else for first overall, but not E. Kane. One of the biggest problems this jets team seems to have us an offense that struggles.
So I guess the solution would be to trade our leading goal scorer? Personally I think getting a top tier center and putting Kane on the same line as the guy that leads the team in assists might help.
He'll still develop, and the fact that hid numbers have gone up over the last few years proves that.
Yakupov is not god's gift to hockey. He's just a draft pick, and chances are he'll spend the better part of two years playing for the ice caps before he hits the NHL full time.
But let's get rid if our goal leader for someone that will not match his totals because he'll be playing for St. John's.
I think it's the fact that people are over critiquing Kane's game and acting like he won't get much better when the fact of the matter is the sky is the limit for this kid. Wheeler is JUST NOW coming into his own at 25. Imagine Kane when he actually fills out. He can still gain anywhere from 10 to 20 pounds, and that will likely be in his legs. His upper body is filled out pretty good but he can still add a lot to his lower body strength.
People just need to take a step back with these KIDS we have on this team and give them a god dam chance to get better.
CBJ wouldn't trade their 1st pick for Kane anyways and Chevy would be an idiot to trade a top 10 pick and Kane for that pick so it's all moot anyways.
Different players peak at different times. It's far from unheard of for an offensive peak to be at ages 20-23. Just because he is 20 does not neccessarily mean he will be better at 23-24. It's not how it works. I completely disagree that the sky is the limit with Kane, his numbers are not going to significantly improve unless he vastly improves his vision and hockey sense. It's possible he does. It's possible it doesn't. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing the pros and cons of his game or his trade value, same as with ANY player on the team. It's a freaking discussion board.
I just sat through a 5 year rebuild with the Los Angeles Kings. I understand patience. I understand letting young players develop. I have no problem keeping Kane, seeing where it goes. But it would be absolutely stupid to not listen to offers, not to talk about things.
I just don't see much more upside in Kane's game unless he a)develops hockey sense to get open and find soft areas or make a pass b)starts getting his nose dirty in the corners and out front of the net. If he does both he could be extremely valuable, an elite player. But those are mental things, almost impossible to develop unless the player wants to. Does he? Hard to say. Progression is not linear. He could. I'd bet he doesn't.
Even if he doesn't, it does not mean that he is garbage. He is an extremely valuable player even with what he is right now. His skill set is fantastic. He does alot of things well, great skater, wicked wrist shot, deadly off the rush, throws hits. He is a great player. But that does not make him above criticism.
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2012 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS LA KINGS!!! GO JETS GO!
Sure he would. That's how True North likes to run things. Off the top of my head I can think of only a few guys drafted that hit the NHL the next year. Two of those guys are Sidney Crosby and Jonathon Toews. Ovechkin stayed in Russia and Malkin had immigration problems, so they both continued playing in a lesser league for the season after they were drafted.
If the Jets get a number one pick like Nail they won't want to rush him and would rather that he developed properly into a star, instead of having them struggle for the first few years.
I wouldn't take it. I might trade someone else for first overall, but not E. Kane. One of the biggest problems this jets team seems to have us an offense that struggles.
So I guess the solution would be to trade our leading goal scorer? Personally I think getting a top tier center and putting Kane on the same line as the guy that leads the team in assists might help.
He'll still develop, and the fact that hid numbers have gone up over the last few years proves that.
Yakupov is not god's gift to hockey. He's just a draft pick, and chances are he'll spend the better part of two years playing for the ice caps before he hits the NHL full time.
But let's get rid if our goal leader for someone that will not match his totals because he'll be playing for St. John's.
That doesn't seems bright.
You are kidding right? There is no way this is a serious post. Every single forward drafted 1st overall since the lockout has gone directly to the NHL. Not to mention Yakupov wouldn't even BE ELIGIBLE to go to St. John's for two years.
This is concensus #1 selection people. Yakupov will put up 80+ at least once by his 3rd NHL season (ie 20 years old) no problem. Yakupov would have a legitmate chance to be our leading scorer, NEXT YEAR, and I am not even kidding. Yakupov is a huge talent.
Nail will go right to the NHL and will be really really good, will easily score 20 as a rookie.
There is honestly no garuntee of that happening. If by some grace of god this organization gets him, he'll prolly be the face of the franchise in the future, and could possibly lead us to a cup, but you can bet your ass that TN will want to make sure that they don't **** up the whole deal by throwing him in too soon.
Sure he would. That's how True North likes to run things. Off the top of my head I can think of only a few guys drafted that hit the NHL the next year. Two of those guys are Sidney Crosby and Jonathon Toews. Ovechkin stayed in Russia and Malkin had immigration problems, so they both continued playing in a lesser league for the season after they were drafted.
If the Jets get a number one pick like Nail they won't want to rush him and would rather that he developed properly into a star, instead of having them struggle for the first few years.
Your kidding right? First of all, Toews DID not hit the NHL the next season after being drafted.
Ovechkin would have except the freaking lockout happened which is why he didn't. Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane, Steven Stamkos, Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, John Tavares all did. First overall picks always do, and most have an immediate huge impact.
You are kidding right? There is no way this is a serious post. Every single forward drafted 1st overall since the lockout has gone directly to the NHL. Not to mention Yakupov wouldn't even BE ELIGIBLE to go to St. John's for two years.
This is concensus #1 selection people. Yakupov will put up 80+ at
least once by his 3rd NHL season (ie 20 years old) no problem. Yakupov would have a legitmate chance to be our leading scorer, NEXT YEAR, and I am not even
kidding. Yakupov is a huge talent.
No...I'm not kidding.
It's all well and good to be our leading scorer in 2-3 years, but you propose to trade our best offensive weapon ATM to get him. A weapon that's only going to get better with time, might I add.
E. Kane nay never put 100 pts, but 70-80...sure. He'll prolly hit that.
Aldo didn't know that you had to be older to get into the AHL then the NHL. I often wondered why mark wasn't playing there.
Sure he would. That's how True North likes to run things. Off the top of my head I can think of only a few guys drafted that hit the NHL the next year. Two of those guys are Sidney Crosby and Jonathon Toews. Ovechkin stayed in Russia and Malkin had immigration problems, so they both continued playing in a lesser league for the season after they were drafted.
If the Jets get a number one pick like Nail they won't want to rush him and would rather that he developed properly into a star, instead of having them struggle for the first few years.
Err, check your facts. You are completely incorrect on this.
Almost every #1 overall has played in the NHL immediately after being drafted.
Ovechikin stayed in Russia because of the lockout. Erik Johnson played one season of college.
It's all well and good to be our leading scorer in 2-3 years, but you propose to trade our best offensive weapon ATM to get him. A weapon that's only going to get better with time, might I add.
E. Kane nay never put 100 pts, but 70-80...sure. He'll prolly hit that.
Aldo didn't know that you had to be older to get into the AHL then the NHL. I often wondered why mark wasn't playing there.
Honestly, Kane's "grit" is overrated by a long shot on here, IMO. He finishes his checks yes, but he does not consistantly win board battles OR pay the price out front of the net to score goals. He needs to work on those aspects of his game alot if he wants to be a "gritty" winger. Right now Antropov has more grit and toughness than him, IMO. Honestly, Kane finishes checks behind the play, very rarely does he seperate the puck from the man with a hit, so although valuable to wear teams down his hit rarely accomplish all that much. His grittiness and toughness are vastly overrated.
Point me to where Kane has scored 40 goals?
How exactly will a center help Kane's game? Seriously. He does not find the soft areas to be open for passes. He kills the cycle game. He cannot set up that center either. His offense comes off the rush. It's the same reason that it does matter who you put Nash will, he will score the same. Same with Kane.
Yakupov won't bring the hitting. Yakupov might be a "moody" russian. But Kane can't be having a career season (careers are not linear people, it's happened this young before). Kane can't have drive/desire/attitude problems that will stop him from going to the next level? Kane will for sure get better with a better center? Kane will suddenly magically learn how to play team hockey?
And oh, BTW, in your theoretical 500K/1M dollar question, by the odds you take the 90% chance at 1M EVERY time.
Seriously, nobody is trying to "discredit" Kane. He is a solid young player. He has plenty of great aspects, which people here have pointed out. Goalscoring wingers are valuable. But we are talking about the FIRST OVERALL SELECTION here. That is a huge return. Straight up I don't see how you can say no. (Note, I have never once said we should trade Kane+WPG 1st Round, I agree that is too much. I am talking straight up, maybe +2nd Rounder).
I'm not going to argue this to vociferously because I am not 100% dead set against the Jets trading Kane straight up for Yakupov.
It's interesting though how there are questions about Kane improving (using his teammates better, scoring 40, being more tenacious along the boards) whereas it's some sort of given that a player who has played nothing more than junior hockey is going to score 20 goals his first season and be an 80 point getter within 3 seasons.
It is more than just a gamble he will, but there is no guarantee. The draft lists are littered with BIG producers in junior who didn't put it together in the NHL. Kane is already a PROVEN COMMODITY. He's shown he can score at a pretty consistent level in the league. He has gone through stretches this year where his confidence got down and he went cold. As he matures its fairly likely he will figure that out and become more consistent.
You are making it out to be a no brainer and I think that is wreckless.
Different players peak at different times. It's far from unheard of for an offensive peak to be at ages 20-23. Just because he is 20 does not neccessarily mean he will be better at 23-24. It's not how it works. I completely disagree that the sky is the limit with Kane, his numbers are not going to significantly improve unless he vastly improves his vision and hockey sense. It's possible he does. It's possible it doesn't. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing the pros and cons of his game or his trade value, same as with ANY player on the team. It's a freaking discussion board.
I just sat through a 5 year rebuild with the Los Angeles Kings. I understand patience. I understand letting young players develop. I have no problem keeping Kane, seeing where it goes. But it would be absolutely stupid to not listen to offers, not to talk about things.
I just don't see much more upside in Kane's game unless he a)develops hockey sense to get open and find soft areas or make a pass b)starts getting his nose dirty in the corners and out front of the net. If he does both he could be extremely valuable, an elite player. But those are mental things, almost impossible to develop unless the player wants to. Does he? Hard to say. Progression is not linear. He could. I'd bet he doesn't.
Even if he doesn't, it does not mean that he is garbage. He is an extremely valuable player even with what he is right now. His skill set is fantastic. He does alot of things well, great skater, wicked wrist shot, deadly off the rush, throws hits. He is a great player. But that does not make him above criticism.
I'll just agree to disagree in regards to Kane's peak/ceiling. You seem pretty set on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410
Sure he would. That's how True North likes to run things. Off the top of my head I can think of only a few guys drafted that hit the NHL the next year. Two of those guys are Sidney Crosby and Jonathon Toews. Ovechkin stayed in Russia and Malkin had immigration problems, so they both continued playing in a lesser league for the season after they were drafted.
If the Jets get a number one pick like Nail they won't want to rush him and would rather that he developed properly into a star, instead of having them struggle for the first few years.
I don't care if it's ****ing Nashville or Detroit picking him. That kid will be in the NHL next year. He can only play in the OHL or NHL and he is not going back after already putting up 100 points as a 17 year old.
Ovechkin was drafted right before the lockout, so he couldn't play in the NHL.
Hall, Taveras, Stamkos, RNH, P. Kane, Nash, and Kovalchuk all played in the NHL the year after they were drafted. That will not change with Yakupov.
I won't bother pointing out that I didn't say first overall.
Just saying.
Whoever drafts Yakupov will prolly start him. Not going to deny that. I just don't think the jets would.
And it's naive to think that as the Jets are already thin on RW and Yakupov would be a nice addition to the right side whether it's the 2nd or 3rd line. You can't rush a kid that is already much better then his peers.
I'll just agree to disagree in regards to Kane's peak/ceiling. You seem pretty set on this.
I don't care if it's ****ing Nashville or Detroit picking him. That kid will be in the NHL next year. He can only play in the OHL or NHL and he is not going back after already putting up 100 points as a 17 year old.
Ovechkin was drafted right before the lockout, so he couldn't play in the NHL.
Hall, Taveras, Stamkos, RNH, P. Kane, Nash, and Kovalchuk all played in the NHL the year after they were drafted. That will not
change with Yakupov.
Good for them. And I'm
Not sure where Detroit or ****ing Nashville fit into the equation..,
I'm just saying that chevy is a cautious guy, so it's definitely not a guaranteed thing that Nail would be in the starting line up. Especially if they find that the kid isn't NHL ready.
I'm just saying.
Let's not count our chickens before they're hatched.
Good for them. And I'm
Not sure where Detroit or ****ing Nashville fit into the equation..,
I'm just saying that chevy is a cautious guy, so it's definitely not a guaranteed thing that Nail would be in the starting line up. Especially if they find that the kid isn't NHL ready.
I'm just saying.
Let's not count our chickens before they're hatched.
Do some research first dude. Nearly every 1st overall pick has played in the NHL the very next season. Yakupov put up 101 points as a 17 YEAR OLD. He scored one more goal then E.Kane scored as a 17 year old and Yakupov is a more complete offensive player at his age then Kane was. You really think he's going to go back to juniors just to stunt his development for two years? That's not logical at all. I know there hasn't been a team in Winnipeg for awhile but it's not hard to do just a tad bit of research.
Good for them. And I'm
Not sure where Detroit or ****ing Nashville fit into the equation..,
I'm just saying that chevy is a cautious guy, so it's definitely not a guaranteed thing that Nail would be in the starting line up. Especially if they find that the kid isn't NHL ready.
I'm just saying.
Let's not count our chickens before they're hatched.
I just don't see how you can think that. Scheifele got a chance to show how he looked in the majors before being sent back to the juniors, because he simply wasn't good enough. Yakupov is a much MUCH better prospect than Mark is.
Strong teams are built through the draft, but making smart FA pickups and trades can definitely help accelerate the process. Every year there are some players, both on the trade and UFA market that are undervalued, some are not used properly by their previous teams, some are coming off bad years, while some just need to be moved for salary reasons. I've looked through the league and collected a few players that could be had on the UFA market for a good deal, or could be picked up via trade for a good deal. I ignored other Southeast teams as a trade with them is highly unlikely.
Blake Comeau-26-LW/RW-6.0-195-R
Comeau has had a terrible year he will be an RFA making 2.5M, he shoots right and has decent size. This year he has only 14 PTS but hes coming off years of 46 and 35 with the Islanders. This year he played above average competition (Slater level) and is only a -1.31 Corsi on, however his Relative Corsi is +7.6 combine that with a 48% Ozone start and we can see a guy who is eating the really tough minutes. The cause of his scoring woes? A miserable 4.44% on Ice SH%, he has never put up a positive Corsi ON but that being said his Rel Corsi has always been positive indicating he has been better than those around him. Playing with the Flames and Islander putting up + Corsi numbers is a tough task. He kills penalties and all numbers indicated he is above average on the PK, assuming no PP time and 3rd line minutes a return to 30-40 PTS would seam likely. His RFA rights will most likely be available by trade, or CGY may choose not to qualify him making him a FA. Ether way he could be an option to fill a bottom 9 wing role for the Jets or play 2nd RW if no other options are available.
Brad Boyes -29-C/RW-6.0-204-R
Another guy with a terrible year, Boyes suffers from a poor 6.12% personal SH% and a even worse 6.04% ON Ice SH%. Playing bad competition this year he is putting up +ve Corsi and Rel Corsi numbers his Ozone start is 53%. Through his career he has shown and ability to put up Corsi's in the +1.00 to + 2.50 while playing below average competition. He is not going to put up 70 PTS again but could be useful in a 2nd line RW or C role. For the Jets he could fill the #2 C or RW hole playing sheltered minutes with Kane he could easily return to 40+ PT form, on a short term deal with a cap hit in the 2.5-3.5M dollar range he could be an excellent value pickup.
Mike Frolik-24-LW/RW-6.1-200-L
Again a terrible year for Frolik on the score sheet, another player with a real bad SH% his is 4.31%! His ON Ice is no better at 5.43%, this is his 2nd straight year of having no luck what so ever, he is due for a turn around. He is being used as a defensive forward in CHI where as in FLA he was in a top 6 role, with CHI hes playing Tanner Glass level competition but is still generating a +ve Corsi ON 3.57, last year it was 5.96. His Rel Corsi is -ve but given the quality of team mates and the tough minutes he's playing this is to be expected. He is another RFA at a salary of 2.33 CHI is almost definitely willing to deal his RFA rights, he could ether fill the 2nd line wing role, or fill a bottom 6 defensive/PK role with the Jets.
Alexei Ponikarovsky-31-LW/RW-6.4-225-L
Poni has been good for 32 points this year, he had a bad year last year in LA but that appears to be the outlier not the trend. His career is on the decline but he can still contribute 30 PTS while being a puck possession wizard, Corsi ON for the last 3 year +18, + 3.78, + 8. Could fill a bottom 6 role with the Jets although he is not a great PKer, a 1 year deal in the 1.5-2.5M range would be nice value for what he can bring.
Dustin Penner-29-LW-6.4-240-L
His struggles this year have been vary well documented, had 3 very good season on the back on unsustainable SH%. He does play a good puck possession game putting up + Corsi numbers in all of the last 4 years, while with EDM his Rel Corsi was very high do to playing with poor players. The one constant with his good seasons was playing poorer competition while not getting it as easy as Kane and Burmi have had it this year he was definitely getting some easy minutes. Bringing him in as a UFA on a one or two year deal could work out very well for the Jets, playing with Kane on the sheltered line he could hopefully return to form offensively, alternatively he could play a bottom 6 puck possession role.
Colin Wilson-22-LW/C-6.1-210-L
An RFA this year who is not fitting in well with the NSH system, he could be a victim of the dollars being allocated to Rads/Suter/AK. Plays a good puck possession game against slightly below average opponents his Corsi ON is +.73 but his Rel Corsi is quite good. Not a lot of statistical data on him the main value being the potential he possess, playing him on the sheltered Kane line he could easily develop into an excellent 2nd line centre.
Tyler Kennedy-25-RW-5.11-183-R
Having a decent year in PIT but could be moved for salary reasons, 1 year left at 2M then an RFA after that. He plays an excellent puck possession game putting up +ve Rel Corsi numbers on a team with Crosby and Malkin on the roster is pretty amazing, that being said he does it playing easy minutes. His main value to the Jets would be his RH shot, the Jets are sorely lacking on NHL talent that shoot right, he could be brought in to play a bottom 6 RW role, although he doesn't kill penalties at his age the transition to a defensive forward could be made. Given his lack of production given the easy minutes and PP time with some of the games best he is a poor candidate to fill the 2nd RW.
Nik Kulemin-25-LW/RW-6.1-225-L
Coming off a year he had no chance of repeating Kuli has come under a lot of fire, with Fratten and the newly acquired Carter Ashton he could be the odd man out. He scored 30 on the back of a 17% personal SH%, thats not going to happen again, more likely he is a 15-20 goal scorer who can play solid defence from the wing. He has posted very good puck possession numbers, however I am weary of trusting them as he has spent most of his time playing with puck possession wizard Mikhail Grabovski, and could be ridding his coat tails so to speak. His value to the Jets is most likely as a bottom 6 player that plays a hopefully good puck possession game and is an above average defensive and PKing forward. He is a RFA this year making 2.35M given all of the Leafs need he could be moved this summer.
Honerable mentions:
Other players I considered were Chris Stewart, Mason Raymond, and Grabner. Figured this post was already to long and these guys have been talked about already.
I have a detailed breakdown of each player but chose to just put in the quick version otherwise this post would have taken me days to write, any questions about these guys let me know and I will post detailed numbers.
Any other suggestion for guys that could be picked up on the cheap?
Friendly ManiBROba
