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Winnipeg Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation-It all goes here; Part VI

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04-08-2012, 01:37 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Just from my own personal experience, Wilson doesn't fit the bill of players that work hard and have good character. He's lazy and has entitlement issues, which is why he's on the out's in Nashville. Sure he's got skill, but from first hand knowledge he's not the player we're looking for. Think Kane's attitude. If I could use one word to describe him, it would be do*che!
It does appear that he is out of the lineup due to not "getting it" in regards to the system Trotz wants to implement. So there is a red flag there I will admit. Is it an attitude thing? An unwillingness to change his playing style to a team first approach?

IF those are all indeed true, and TNSE did their due diligence, I would expect them to pass. If however, it's something they thing is overblown, or if they think it can be worked on and the price is right, it might be worth looking into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
If Cormier comes in and can play a good 3rd C position maybe a Burmi for Wilson swap would work. I would only consider this if Cormier comes in and plays well in that 3rd C role but if he does I would definitely consider it, I am becoming more and more pessimistic about Burmi's offensive ceiling.
I would like to add Wilson, but not at the expense of Burmistrov. Doesn't look like a very good deal to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
As for Free Agents, I'm not sure if Winnipeg will go after any free agents. This was a team that sent one of it's better defensemen packing and this was also a franchise that was hoping it would have qualified for revenue sharing. I'm pretty sure if anything, Cheveldayoff is going to start moving players for draft picks and will only sign players just to try to reach the floor.
Better defensemen packing? Are you referring to Coburn? How does that have any relevance to the current management group? Answer? It doesn't.

Hoping to qualify for revenue sharing? Guess what? The Jets made too much money this year. They don't qualify for revenue sharing. 0 for 2 now.

Going to start moving players for draft picks to reach the floor? In no interview has anyone from TNSE said they would be at the floor of the cap. Not 1. The only player traded for picks was Oduya, and he was an upcoming UFA in a position of depth for us. Pretty much every knowledgeable person thought the return Chevy got for Oduya was very good.

That's 3 strikes and you're out.


Last edited by Huffer: 04-08-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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04-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #877
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Oh my bad didnt know youve skated with Colin Wilson.
It's cool. Like I said I don't really know the guy, but sometimes players are in the wrong situation for them and that could be the case here

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04-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #878
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04-08-2012, 02:04 PM
  #879
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I know what you mean -.- Imagining that I have to wait until September to see a Jets game again suxxxxxxxx.

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04-08-2012, 03:14 PM
  #880
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So, who do you guys think we are going after this summer?

I think that we need more offense and Stuart-like defender. Parise is propably out of the discussion?

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04-08-2012, 05:02 PM
  #881
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Better defensemen packing? Are you referring to Coburn? How does that have any relevance to the current management group? Answer? It doesn't.

Hoping to qualify for revenue sharing? Guess what? The Jets made too much money this year. They don't qualify for revenue sharing. 0 for 2 now.

Going to start moving players for draft picks to reach the floor? In no interview has anyone from TNSE said they would be at the floor of the cap. Not 1. The only player traded for picks was Oduya, and he was an upcoming UFA in a position of depth for us. Pretty much every knowledgeable person thought the return Chevy got for Oduya was very good.

That's 3 strikes and you're out.
Clearly you didn't understand what I wrote. I know that Winnipeg doesn't qualify for revenue sharing. However, Chipman said he was disappointed that Winnipeg didn't qualify for revenue sharing. And what does that mean? Simple. It means that the budget is going down. Every team that has ever said that they've missed out on revenue sharing always lowers the budget the following year. Just look up what teams did who missed qualifying for revenue sharing. They all ended up slashing their budget so that they qualify for revenue sharing the following year.

As for the defenseman that was moved, I was referring to Oduya, not Coburn. Even though he was a UFA, Winnipeg was in a race for a playoff spot. You never get rid of a serviceable player when you're in the midst of contending for a playoff spot, especially when said player was averaging 19:20 of ice time per game. Any time a team moves a player like that, that's usually the sign the white flag has been raised. I'm sure Cheveldayoff could have waited until the draft to move Oduya.

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04-08-2012, 05:25 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Clearly you didn't understand what I wrote. I know that Winnipeg doesn't qualify for revenue sharing. However, Chipman said he was disappointed that Winnipeg didn't qualify for revenue sharing. And what does that mean? Simple. It means that the budget is going down. Every team that has ever said that they've missed out on revenue sharing always lowers the budget the following year. Just look up what teams did who missed qualifying for revenue sharing. They all ended up slashing their budget so that they qualify for revenue sharing the following year.

As for the defenseman that was moved, I was referring to Oduya, not Coburn. Even though he was a UFA, Winnipeg was in a race for a playoff spot. You never get rid of a serviceable player when you're in the midst of contending for a playoff spot, especially when said player was averaging 19:20 of ice time per game. Any time a team moves a player like that, that's usually the sign the white flag has been raised. I'm sure Cheveldayoff could have waited until the draft to move Oduya.
Lets actually see what Chipman said on the matter:

Quote:
"Because our revenues exceeded what we expected them to be, we dont participate in sharing," Chipman said today. "In the end, were going to be in the exact same place we expected them to be. Which we feel good about."

...

"When we first modeled this business, we did so quite carefully," Chipman said. "We had the benefit of those years leading up and we looked at where we thought we would fit in. Initially, we thought wed be a (revenue) share team. And so we studied that model very carefully.

"We thought we were going to be dependent on it. So we spent time with teams like Nashville that have managed their way through that process very well. As it turns out, our revenues have exceeded the point at which we are allowed to participate in revenue sharing so we feel really good about that."
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...146445605.html

He sounds so disappointed that the Jets didn't qualify for revenue sharing.

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04-08-2012, 05:32 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Helsingin Jokerit View Post
So, who do you guys think we are going after this summer?

I think that we need more offense and Stuart-like defender. Parise is propably out of the discussion?
My short list goes like this:

1) Andrei Kostitsyn
-RW capable of scoring ~25 goals and is defensively responsible

2) PA Parenteau
-RW who scored 67 points this season. His stats might have been exaggerated because he played with Tavares, but you don't score almost 70 points by accident. The downside is that he'll be looking for a big payday at 29, but the upside is that Chevy and Zinger clearly value guys who played in the AHL.

3) David Jones
-Signing Jones would be predicated on Wellwood not re-signing with us. Both guys are ~50 point forwards, but Jones is more of a goal scorer and Wellwood is more of a playmaker.

4) Matt Carle
-Buff, Enstrom, Carle and Bogosian would make a sick top four.

5) Jordin Tootoo
-I'd only be interested if he was willing to take a hometown discount to come here. He would bring a lot of grit and toughness to our line up.

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04-08-2012, 08:03 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Clearly you didn't understand what I wrote. I know that Winnipeg doesn't qualify for revenue sharing. However, Chipman said he was disappointed that Winnipeg didn't qualify for revenue sharing. And what does that mean? Simple. It means that the budget is going down. Every team that has ever said that they've missed out on revenue sharing always lowers the budget the following year. Just look up what teams did who missed qualifying for revenue sharing. They all ended up slashing their budget so that they qualify for revenue sharing the following year.

As for the defenseman that was moved, I was referring to Oduya, not Coburn. Even though he was a UFA, Winnipeg was in a race for a playoff spot. You never get rid of a serviceable player when you're in the midst of contending for a playoff spot, especially when said player was averaging 19:20 of ice time per game. Any time a team moves a player like that, that's usually the sign the white flag has been raised. I'm sure Cheveldayoff could have waited until the draft to move Oduya.
I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand I happen to actually know people in True North and they are thrilled with the revenue, they made more money this year year than anyone could possibly have fathomed when they brought the team in.

As for Oduya he was an upcoming UFA that would have had 0 value at the draft. #1 defensemen and goaltenders get their rights moved at the draft, not #5 Dmen, holding onto him would have done nothing for the Jets except make their draft pick worse. As it stands they have 2 extra picks in a supposedly deep draft that they can use as ammo in trades, or actually use on players ether way it builds up the depth of the organization, a major weakness. Please head back to the leafs board if your looking to troll a fan base they are a much better target.

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04-08-2012, 08:19 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
My short list goes like this:

1) Andrei Kostitsyn
-RW capable of scoring ~25 goals and is defensively responsible

2) PA Parenteau
-RW who scored 67 points this season. His stats might have been exaggerated because he played with Tavares, but you don't score almost 70 points by accident. The downside is that he'll be looking for a big payday at 29, but the upside is that Chevy and Zinger clearly value guys who played in the AHL.

3) David Jones
-Signing Jones would be predicated on Wellwood not re-signing with us. Both guys are ~50 point forwards, but Jones is more of a goal scorer and Wellwood is more of a playmaker.

4) Matt Carle
-Buff, Enstrom, Carle and Bogosian would make a sick top four.

5) Jordin Tootoo
-I'd only be interested if he was willing to take a hometown discount to come here. He would bring a lot of grit and toughness to our line up.
1) Would love him

2)I think he will get more than hes worth, although he has played well away from JT would be a nice player at 3M if hes available for that much grab him.

3)Not a fan doesn't play a good puck possession game dont think hes worth the +3M he will get

4) Like him as a player but apparently his defensive game is rather Buff like, IE bad if we deal Toby I wouldn't mind picking him up to replace the hole left there otherwise I don't think its a fit.

5)Agree with you on this one


My personal list

1) Barret Jackman
-Plays an excellent stay at home game, not the best skater in the world but a reliable guy who is rarely out of position. Good partner to hang back and ride shootgun with Buffy the GAA slayer. Will cost a tad more but still a good value at 4.0M per.

2) Chris Kelly
-Plays a good defensive game, can also chip in offensively I doubt the Bruins let him go but if they do hes a good player at 3.0-3.2M.

3) Greg Zanon
- Another defensively sound guy similar to Mark Stuart but just a tad better all around. Another possible Buffy partner. Solid defender in the 3M range.

4) Paul "Goose" Gaustad
- Wonderful face off guy who can play the bottom 6 center role well, as a bonus he kills penalties and has some play off experience a solid player in the 2.5-2.8M range.

Nothing to aggressive here if they can manage to sign 2 out of these 4 players I think that will help quite a bit realistically speaking they should be looking to add 1 defender and 2-3 bottom 6 forwards this off season.

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04-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #886
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If Cormier comes in and can play a good 3rd C position maybe a Burmi for Wilson swap would work. I would only consider this if Cormier comes in and plays well in that 3rd C role but if he does I would definitely consider it, I am becoming more and more pessimistic about Burmi's offensive ceiling.
You have got to be freakin' kidding me!?!

This is getting ridiculous. I honestly don't know how to take this post serious. For a board that does nothing but preach patience and time and are fans of an organization that preaches patience, it sure is quick to jump to conclusions...

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04-08-2012, 08:44 PM
  #887
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You have got to be freakin' kidding me!?!

This is getting ridiculous. I honestly don't know how to take this post serious. For a board that does nothing but preach patience and time and are fans of an organization that preaches patience, it sure is quick to jump to conclusions...
I've personally never been high on Burmi, I just like Wilson better they are 2 years apart I get that. I just see him as having the higher offensive ceiling than Burmi. I'm not sure what is ridiculous about me liking another player more than one we currently have, I could be wrong I could be right who knows.

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04-08-2012, 08:51 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Clearly you didn't understand what I wrote. I know that Winnipeg doesn't qualify for revenue sharing. However, Chipman said he was disappointed that Winnipeg didn't qualify for revenue sharing. And what does that mean? Simple. It means that the budget is going down. Every team that has ever said that they've missed out on revenue sharing always lowers the budget the following year. Just look up what teams did who missed qualifying for revenue sharing. They all ended up slashing their budget so that they qualify for revenue sharing the following year.

As for the defenseman that was moved, I was referring to Oduya, not Coburn. Even though he was a UFA, Winnipeg was in a race for a playoff spot. You never get rid of a serviceable player when you're in the midst of contending for a playoff spot, especially when said player was averaging 19:20 of ice time per game. Any time a team moves a player like that, that's usually the sign the white flag has been raised. I'm sure Cheveldayoff could have waited until the draft to move Oduya.
Revenue sharing is based on where they stand in league revenue, not their internal budget -- and generally, teams will budget for their revenue. If teams miss out on revenue sharing for other reasons (say, failing to meet the minimum attendance) and thus end up cash-strapped, then yes, they would cut the budget since their revenue would be too low.

However, we weren't disqualified from revenue sharing because of those other factors. We were disqualified because we made too much money. Chipman stated outright that the total revenue ended up being about what they projected it to be, meaning they are right on track with their business plan.

So all this talk about having to cut some budget is thoroughly imaginary. TNSE has stated pretty bluntly they're in a solid place and more or less exactly where they hoped to be.

For the Oduya issue -- no, Chevy could not have moved Oduya at the draft, since Oduya was a UFA. As it was, Chevy moved him for a 2nd and 3rd round pick which everyone around the league agreed was a pretty excellent price, and for a player that obviously wasn't in the long-term plans anyway.

I liked Oduya and would have been happy had he stuck around, but we also needed (and still do need) to make some room on D for some of our prospects that are looking closer and closer to NHL-ready, and Oduya's likely contract expectations and role meant that he was the most obvious choice to move to a contender that was hungry for D. It was a good trade.

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04-08-2012, 08:55 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
I've personally never been high on Burmi, I just like Wilson better they are 2 years apart I get that. I just see him as having the higher offensive ceiling than Burmi. I'm not sure what is ridiculous about me liking another player more than one we currently have, I could be wrong I could be right who knows.
I just think you missed the part where that goes completely against what TNSE says they will do. Being patient and going for the long term approach doesn't mean giving up on a kid that has played 2 seasons in the NHL and only 3 years of hockey in North America or moving someone so young that has a very good work ethic for someone his age for a guy that has fallen out of favor with the team that TNSE says they want to model themselves after.


Last edited by Guerzy: 04-08-2012 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Unnecessary comment.
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04-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #890
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Buffy the GAA slayer


Agree with your list as well.

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04-08-2012, 09:23 PM
  #891
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I just think you missed the part where that goes completely against what TNSE says they will do. Being patient and going for the long term approach doesn't mean giving up on a kid that has played 2 seasons in the NHL and only 3 years of hockey in North America or moving someone so young that has a very good work ethic for someone his age for a guy that has fallen out of favor with the team that TNSE says they want to model themselves after.
If I was advocating trading him for a 30 year old I can see the argument but Colin Wilson is 22 its not like he's not a young player ether. There is a lot to like with Burmi he seams like a great young kid but you don't win championships with character you win it with hockey skill, I believe Wilson has more hockey skill. It's not like Burmi was even a TNSE pick for all we know they don't even like him. As for the NSH comparison just because they want to model the organization after NSH doesn't mean they want the exact same on ice product. Trotz and Noel have very different systems I think Wilson would do very well in Noel's system. I don't think trading one young player for a different young player is going against the building from within mantra it happens all the time.

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04-08-2012, 09:46 PM
  #892
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I think pretty much giving up on a 20 year old kid that you have only seen play one season while playing with almost every player and on more lines then anyone on the team is extremely foolish.

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04-08-2012, 09:51 PM
  #893
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I think pretty much giving up on a 20 year old kid that you have only seen play one season while playing with almost every player and on more lines then anyone on the team is extremely foolish.
Again I just like Wilson better nothing against Burmi personal opinion that's all doubt it will happen. Not writing him off I still think Burmi will be a solid 50 PT 2nd line C, again just think Wilson has that slightly higher potential.

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04-08-2012, 09:53 PM
  #894
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You have got to be freakin' kidding me!?!

This is getting ridiculous. I honestly don't know how to take this post serious. For a board that does nothing but preach patience and time and are fans of an organization that preaches patience, it sure is quick to jump to conclusions...
Please do us a favor and not lump every single person in this forum together. We all have differing opinions, perspectives and outlooks, and as much as I may disagree with some, I think it adds to create a good dynamic to our conversations.

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04-09-2012, 02:00 AM
  #895
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I know I probably wouldn't pay the price as a GM. But what do you guys think of Stastny centering Kane?

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04-09-2012, 07:52 AM
  #896
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I know I probably wouldn't pay the price as a GM. But what do you guys think of Stastny centering Kane?
I would love a Stastny for Enstrom trade.

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04-09-2012, 07:58 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Clearly you didn't understand what I wrote. I know that Winnipeg doesn't qualify for revenue sharing. However, Chipman said he was disappointed that Winnipeg didn't qualify for revenue sharing. And what does that mean? Simple. It means that the budget is going down. Every team that has ever said that they've missed out on revenue sharing always lowers the budget the following year. Just look up what teams did who missed qualifying for revenue sharing. They all ended up slashing their budget so that they qualify for revenue sharing the following year.

As for the defenseman that was moved, I was referring to Oduya, not Coburn. Even though he was a UFA, Winnipeg was in a race for a playoff spot. You never get rid of a serviceable player when you're in the midst of contending for a playoff spot, especially when said player was averaging 19:20 of ice time per game. Any time a team moves a player like that, that's usually the sign the white flag has been raised. I'm sure Cheveldayoff could have waited until the draft to move Oduya.
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I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand I happen to actually know people in True North and they are thrilled with the revenue, they made more money this year year than anyone could possibly have fathomed when they brought the team in.

As for Oduya he was an upcoming UFA that would have had 0 value at the draft. #1 defensemen and goaltenders get their rights moved at the draft, not #5 Dmen, holding onto him would have done nothing for the Jets except make their draft pick worse. As it stands they have 2 extra picks in a supposedly deep draft that they can use as ammo in trades, or actually use on players ether way it builds up the depth of the organization, a major weakness. Please head back to the leafs board if your looking to troll a fan base they are a much better target.
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Revenue sharing is based on where they stand in league revenue, not their internal budget -- and generally, teams will budget for their revenue. If teams miss out on revenue sharing for other reasons (say, failing to meet the minimum attendance) and thus end up cash-strapped, then yes, they would cut the budget since their revenue would be too low.

However, we weren't disqualified from revenue sharing because of those other factors. We were disqualified because we made too much money. Chipman stated outright that the total revenue ended up being about what they projected it to be, meaning they are right on track with their business plan.

So all this talk about having to cut some budget is thoroughly imaginary. TNSE has stated pretty bluntly they're in a solid place and more or less exactly where they hoped to be.

For the Oduya issue -- no, Chevy could not have moved Oduya at the draft, since Oduya was a UFA. As it was, Chevy moved him for a 2nd and 3rd round pick which everyone around the league agreed was a pretty excellent price, and for a player that obviously wasn't in the long-term plans anyway.

I liked Oduya and would have been happy had he stuck around, but we also needed (and still do need) to make some room on D for some of our prospects that are looking closer and closer to NHL-ready, and Oduya's likely contract expectations and role meant that he was the most obvious choice to move to a contender that was hungry for D. It was a good trade.
Pretty much agree with you Wpgpage and Aerial.

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04-09-2012, 08:04 AM
  #898
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I like your list Wpgpage with the exception of Gaustad. I'm not a huge fan of paying a guy like that big money. Reading the Preds board after the trade and they think it was a big waste of a pick. Gaustad is bigger, but I think guys like Cormier and Slater can fill that role for cheaper. That's just my opinion though.

I don't agree that a Burmi for Wilson trade is in or best interest and wouldn't even think about it, but that's because I do see a lot of potential in Burmistrov. I love the kids work ethic, his attitude, and to me I've seen the glimpses of his offense. Plus, I think already he is a pretty good defender and a very good penalty killer. But I could see if someone wasn't as high on him that they could consider that deal.

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04-09-2012, 08:54 AM
  #899
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
My short list goes like this:

1) Andrei Kostitsyn
-RW capable of scoring ~25 goals and is defensively responsible

2) PA Parenteau
-RW who scored 67 points this season. His stats might have been exaggerated because he played with Tavares, but you don't score almost 70 points by accident. The downside is that he'll be looking for a big payday at 29, but the upside is that Chevy and Zinger clearly value guys who played in the AHL.

3) David Jones
-Signing Jones would be predicated on Wellwood not re-signing with us. Both guys are ~50 point forwards, but Jones is more of a goal scorer and Wellwood is more of a playmaker.

4) Matt Carle
-Buff, Enstrom, Carle and Bogosian would make a sick top four.

5) Jordin Tootoo
-I'd only be interested if he was willing to take a hometown discount to come here. He would bring a lot of grit and toughness to our line up.
I agree with your list.

1) think he will stay in Nash ... seems like him and his bro are inseparable

2)Would not complain

3) Would do a little happy dance

4) Great Dman but will be expecting a good chunk of change and is worth it

5) Gitter done! would love to see that sparkplug on our team. Sorry guys but if we drop Stapes, Glass and Slater in Free Agency and acquire 2 2 I would enjoy that thoroly just my opinion

But if we are sticking to the plan I don't see anything mind blowing to happen this year.

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04-09-2012, 09:09 AM
  #900
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
I think pretty much giving up on a 20 year old kid that you have only seen play one season while playing with almost every player and on more lines then anyone on the team is extremely foolish.
Agree can't give up on Burmi!!! This is a kid who should have played last year in junior and this year in the AHL (if eligible) He was not NHL ready and any team with half decent front office would have seen that and not thrown him out on the ice just because of where he was drafted....blame the organization not Burmi IMHO

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