Kreider is not Grachev. Kreider is Stepan and McDonagh. Grachev was an enigma. Its not surprising people are down on Kreider. They're also the same people who didn't McDonagh was very good if Montreal traded him for Gomez. I remember touting McD here and he didn't play well against North Dakota. The game was on TV and someone cracked McD isn't a front line D. Is he a front line D now? Two years later. Stepan wasn't ready for the NHL. Same people who wanted to chuck DZ out the door. Girardi sucked too. Everyone has their opinions. I like Kreider. He is going to a very good NHL player just like the Badger boys. Would you Step or McD straight up for Nash? I wouldn't.
The Rangers brass especially Gorton and Clark love Kreider.
This was mentioned earlier but not given enough attention in my opinion. The fact that Kreider is unsigned has to be a huge deterrent to Howson. Imagine the trade goes down as advertised and then Kreider signs with the NYR in summer 2013. Imagine he signs with Boston!
For the record, I am for this trade as long as none of Kreider, McD or MDZ are involved..
"Last time I checked", the Rangers are 11th in the NHL (that's out of 30) in goals scored and 1st in winning pct.
Goal scoring is not an issue with this team.
I think his argument was very weak. But having said that, GWOW, I mentioned it in the last Nash thread that the rangers are way behind boston, philly, vancouver, and detroit in the GF category. BOS, DET, VAN all have better goal differentials as well. They are going to need some extra scoring if they are serious about contending for a cup this year. That is all I am saying. Not aggressively advocating a trade for Nash, just that the stats are out there to show for what we really could need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy27
This was mentioned earlier but not given enough attention in my opinion. The fact that Kreider is unsigned has to be a huge deterrent to Howson. Imagine the trade goes down as advertised and then Kreider signs with the NYR in summer 2013. Imagine he signs with Boston!
For the record, I am for this trade as long as none of Kreider, McD or MDZ are involved..
Nothing is a guarantee, but it's far more likely he comes to NY and continues his 35-40 goal scoring ways or improves, than it is that he caves to the tremendous pressure of being on a team that, despite being #1 in the conference, can't even get a back-page on any of the local news papers.
He might not feel pressure from the market or the fans, but he also might put pressure on himself to achieve personal goals and live up to his salary.
Every player is different. Some guys cant deal with the environment surrounding them and some guys can't deliver on self-determined goals (no pun intended).
We've been around this town too long to know when players are gripping the hockey stick too tight. You have to be concerned with how Nash deals with his first taste of adversity.
Have to say at this point if Dubi is the only roster player moving I'm for it.
His cap-hit sucks but after all that has happened and Sather finally cleaning the messes he has made, I cannot see him doing something that would undermine all of that. At this point I trust Sather's advisors enough that if they bring in Rick Nash it will be the right move.
I think his argument was very weak. But having said that, GWOW, I mentioned it in the last Nash thread that the rangers are way behind boston, philly, vancouver, and detroit in the GF category. BOS, DET, VAN all have better goal differentials as well. They are going to need some extra scoring if they are serious about contending for a cup this year. That is all I am saying. Not aggressively advocating a trade for Nash, just that the stats are out there to show for what we really could need.
Agreed on the last part.
Yes, true, but Detroit's GD compared to us is +6 with 3 more games played, Nashville is +5 with 2 more games played, Boston is +13, same number of GP, but let's not forget that right before the Rangers played them for the first time in the season it was +30.
Other teams. LAK is supposedly Bernier, Johnson and Loktionov +.
The reports have indicated that Sather's tactic is to overwhelm Howson with prospects. So while LAK and PHI have to offer more high end roster players the Rangers can deal youth.
Nash would be a huge bust and don't forget his insane cap hit. This team is the best in the East and has plenty of firepower. Nash has never done anything.. 4 games of playoff experience.. lol and the price to get him is crazy.
Slats should have gone for Kubina if anything at all.
Yeah because he has always had a good supporting cast around him...reminds me of the main board posters talking about Hanks lack of PO success
I think his argument was very weak. But having said that, GWOW, I mentioned it in the last Nash thread that the rangers are way behind boston, philly, vancouver, and detroit in the GF category. BOS, DET, VAN all have better goal differentials as well. They are going to need some extra scoring if they are serious about contending for a cup this year. That is all I am saying. Not aggressively advocating a trade for Nash, just that the stats are out there to show for what we really could need.
The Rangers GPG is very high against the top teams in the league. They were shut out by Montreal, Dallas and Edmonton, so it hurts their numbers.
I agree that you need a prolific offense and a shutdown defense to win the Cup. All the last few Cup winners were top-5 in goals scored. The point is that the offense has made up for the PP shortcomings by scoring clutch goals, and it isnt a big concern to the point where you trade away a ton of assets.
Yes, true, but Detroit's GD compared to us is +6 with 3 more games played, Nashville is +5 with 2 more games played, Boston is +13, same number of GP, but let's not forget that right before the Rangers played them for the first time in the season it was +30.
Very true. But the whole thing is, perspectively, if you're attempting to see this from Sather and staff's standpoint, do they believe, considering how close things are, that acquiring Nash puts them ahead of all those teams? That's what it is coming down. Does adding Nash overcome the small hurdle that is separating the rangers from those teams? That's why they are in talks for Nash.
Yes, true, but Detroit's GD compared to us is +6 with 3 more games played, Nashville is +5 with 2 more games played, Boston is +13, same number of GP, but let's not forget that right before the Rangers played them for the first time in the season it was +30.
Good stats.
I dont think it should be "will Nash add goals?" because we all know he can score. It should be "will Nash make us a better team", which people disagree on.
I dont think he does. Better offensively, probable. Better team, I dont know.
The reports have indicated that Sather's tactic is to overwhelm Howson with prospects. So while LAK and PHI have to offer more high end roster players the Rangers can deal youth.
One report, which was conjecture from Pierre LeBrun, who qualified his statement by claiming he thinks that is what Sather will do. In similar fashion, the rumored package of Dubi, Kreider and a #1 was conjecture by Garrioch of what the Rangers will offer. But, it's hits website like SNYRangersblog, and suddenly, these are the Ranger offers.
The Rangers GPG is very high against the top teams in the league. They were shut out by Montreal, Dallas and Edmonton, so it hurts their numbers.
I agree that you need a prolific offense and a shutdown defense to win the Cup. All the last few Cup winners were top-5 in goals scored. The point is that the offense has made up for the PP shortcomings by scoring clutch goals, and it isnt a big concern to the point where you trade away a ton of assets.
Oh I agree with you. But I do think you sacrifice and make the trade if it is the right amount of assets for you to give up. Not overkill which seems to be the rumors so far.
I'd still prefer to trade Anisimov over Dubinsky as much as it pains me to say it.
I'm with you there pal. So many of us have this almost personal attachment to Dubi because he embodies the team spirit with his style of play, etcetera. Sometimes I wish there was never a salary cap in hockey.
Apparently it's OK to speculate about trade proposals for Nash but not about the cap or new CBA?
Sather also knows more than everyone on this board about what package it would take to get Nash but I don't see anyone complaining about that. If you don't like seeing posts about cap speculation just ignore it instead of telling others not to worry about it.
Nobody said it anything about not speculating on the new CBA but NOBODY has speculated on it...people keep posting DEFINITIVE statements that Nash will cripple cap flexibility in the future. Feel free to post your anti-Nash thoughts with at least a proposal on what the new CBA might entail.
Very true. But the whole thing is, perspectively, if you're attempting to see this from Sather and staff's standpoint, do they believe, considering how close things are, that acquiring Nash puts them ahead of all those teams? That's what it is coming down. Does adding Nash overcome the small hurdle that is separating the rangers from those teams? That's why they are in talks for Nash.
I wholeheartedly agree, and it's really going to come down to what Columbus' absolute minimum that they're willing to trade Nash for is (that was terribly worded, but I think you get the point). If it turns out to be Dubi, one of Thomas/Miller/Erixon and a first, I'm going to have to go ahead and say that I'm ok with them doing that trade and hope that Nash's contract doesn't hamstring the Rangers 3 years down the road. If they absolutely won't give up Nash unless MCD. MDZ, Stepan, or Kreider are involved, they can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
How do we know anyone will show up? How do we know AA, Stepan, Hagelin, McD, MDZ, Stralman etc will show up?
You're missing the point. We don't know if any of those guys will show up, but if we're investing 7.8M into a player, I damn well want to know he's a big game player. Richards and Gaborik have all been deep in the playoffs and done well. Nash does not have the same resume.
I'm with you there pal. So many of us have this almost personal attachment to Dubi because he embodies the team spirit with his style of play, etcetera. Sometimes I wish there was never a salary cap in hockey.
Yeah goin to be a lot of unhappy Dubinsky jersey owners in the garden.
Not that I'm so extremely attached to Dubi I just do not want this trade to go down.
Keep what you got and maybe add a small piece or two and if you can't you dont just make a move for tr sake of it
All I'm saying is that if the current CBA landscape does not change we're going to be in cap hell with Nash aboard.
This trade only works out if Nash helps deliver a Cup this season OR if the CBA changes in favor of the Rangers. Both are far from guarantees. Just not worth the risk IMO.
Just my opinion but with the league "owning" Phoenix and advancing the Devils TV money I think it's a fairly good bet that the CBA structure will change...heck if the NFL players gave back a % of revenues can't see the NHL not wanting to do the same.
