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Nash-ty Rumors Part IV: The Longest Week

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Old
02-21-2012, 11:49 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Reijo R View Post
Really? Why is that? Has every FA the Rangers have signed played to/above his career numbers and expectations?
Aside from Redden, most of the UFA's have played to their normal production based on the time they got here.

Gomez posted seasons that were on par for his career average. Same for Drury.

Naslund was older and declining and he STILL posted a solid season in NY.

Shanahan - 2 very solid seasons

Theo Fleury? Posted a .90 pts per game for the 224 games played as a Rangers player (201 points) AND he was faling apart mentally his last year here.

Bobby Holik? Mis-cast his first season as something he wasn't and still posted career average points per game of .57 pts per game. Followed that season up with a very good season of 56 points in 82 games. Holik didn't fail in NY, the Rangers failed Holik in expecting him to be something he wasn't.

The law of averages is that Nash plays to his averages here in NY. The logical conclusion is that those numbers actually get better when you consider the talent level he is/has been playing with get a MASSIVE upgrade at forward, on Defence and in Goal.

Not sure how one can come to the conclusion that Nash's numbers don't get at least 20%-25% better playing with better talent.

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02-21-2012, 11:50 AM
  #102
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The Nash discussion brings up an interesting thought-exercise about whether the next CBA should allow teams to go over the cap to re-sign homegrown players. I'd be much more comfortable right now bringing in Nash if we didn't have 6 major RFA to re-sign over the next two years.

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02-21-2012, 11:51 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
You're missing the point. We don't know if any of those guys will show up, but if we're investing 7.8M into a player, I damn well want to know he's a big game player. Richards and Gaborik have all been deep in the playoffs and done well. Nash does not have the same resume.
I guess winning the gold medal in the Olympics on the world stage means nothing. Not to mention the fact that he dominated with 5pts in 7 games.

Go watch some of those games/clips. If surrounded by TALENT, he thrives. Every great player does.

Nash thrives in Columbus with NO ONE around him.

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02-21-2012, 11:51 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
The point is that the offense has made up for the PP shortcomings by scoring clutch goals, and it isnt a big concern to the point where you trade away a ton of assets.
So you think that the best way to improve this team is to leave it as is. Everyone gets it already. It may be a valid point, but it lacks an informative foundation. It appears that you know Nash as player only by his stats, while none of what you call "ton of assets" will never become an elite power forward Nash already is or be equal to his value. Combined. Ever.

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02-21-2012, 11:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Ok, everything is fine. 11th in the league in scoring is exactly what I am striving for if I am GM of a team trying to make a run for a cup.

Why would I want to improve and perhaps make us 7th or 4th, or even 2nd in the league in scoring?!

Nash is an upgrade over Dubinsky. You make the move if it costs you Dubi, and others not named Kreider.
Im not against improving the offense. I'm against the idea that to do so, they need to break the bank and acquire Nash.

There are other options to improve an offense that doesnt need much improvement.

IMO, the PP is all mental and can be fixed. Adding Nash to the PP would probably just add more confusion

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02-21-2012, 11:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
You're missing the point. We don't know if any of those guys will show up, but if we're investing 7.8M into a player, I damn well want to know he's a big game player. Richards and Gaborik have all been deep in the playoffs and done well. Nash does not have the same resume.
No way to know if hes a big game player until he actually gets there. 4 games isnt enough to know for sure.

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02-21-2012, 11:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
So you think that the best way to improve this team is to leave it as is. Everyone gets it already. It may be a valid point, but it lacks an informative foundation. It appears that you know Nash as player only by his stats, while none of what you call "ton of assets" will never become an elite power forward Nash already is or be equal to his value. Combined. Ever.
Nash is a beast.

My reasons for not wanting him are strategic....not tactical.

I'm no stat watcher.

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02-21-2012, 11:54 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by WeWillWinTonight View Post
Yeah goin to be a lot of unhappy Dubinsky jersey owners in the garden.

Not that I'm so extremely attached to Dubi I just do not want this trade to go down.

Keep what you got and maybe add a small piece or two and if you can't you dont just make a move for tr sake of it
Totally agree. There are some interesting players out there that can be brought in as short term fixes without upsetting the whole applecart.

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02-21-2012, 11:55 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
My question is: do you want a cup, or a couple of potential runs down the road? How the hell people think those trades were bad is beyond me. We know those trades led to a cup. That's a fact. Thinking the players we traded away would have led to more chances is pure speculation.
And it's pure speculation that trading for Nash would win us a cup. We finally have a team that is a cup contender and we need to put all our eggs in one basket and go for it now? If we don't win and then start losing key players to cap constraints, what then?

Maybe you are willing to roll the dice, but I'm not. There are too many things that could go wrong IMO.

Regardless, I don't see a deal happening. Sather won't offer McD or MDZ and I can't see Howson accepting any deal without one of them in it.

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Old
02-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The Nash discussion brings up an interesting thought-exercise about whether the next CBA should allow teams to go over the cap to re-sign homegrown players. I'd be much more comfortable right now bringing in Nash if we didn't have 6 major RFA to re-sign over the next two years.
The cap must be soften somehow. As is it serves the best only for those clubs that should either be moved or get out.

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02-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Totally agree. There are some interesting players out there that can be brought in as short term fixes without upsetting the whole applecart.
Who? I havent seen these short term fixes. You really dont think that if they were out there that sather wouldnt be interested in them? Or for that matter the entire league since there seems to be much more buyers than sellers as of right now.

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Old
02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Add two picks, and that blows the doors off of anything any fan on this board could offer.

Columbus gets an NHL proven young goalie, a top-2 d-man who can run a PP with Wiz, a skilled and crafty center who wont be blocked and a top-15 pick.
A proven young goalie with a 18-16-4 record and a .908 save percentage over the last 3+ seasons (25 of those games coming last year alone). Very pedestrian numbers. and BTW, he's on pace for 14 starts this season. The season where EVERYONE thought he would supplant Quick as the teams Starter.

Bernier is overrated.

A top 2 defenceman that doesn't play D all that well

And a crafty center that is on pace for 9 points TOTAL in 59 games played this season.

People act like the LA deal is this awesome package. I'm not seeing it. Not at all

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02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Nash is a beast.

My reasons for not wanting him are strategic....not tactical.

I'm no stat watcher.
there is nor there should be any strategy when goaltender puts unhuman numbers. tactic must take over. the only risk is Lundqvist would regress to his average. for that you get Nash and give up some unproven kids.

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02-21-2012, 11:59 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
One report, which was conjecture from Pierre LeBrun, who qualified his statement by claiming he thinks that is what Sather will do. In similar fashion, the rumored package of Dubi, Kreider and a #1 was conjecture by Garrioch of what the Rangers will offer. But, it's hits website like SNYRangersblog, and suddenly, these are the Ranger offers.
One report? Bonby Mac has been saying it all along.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #115
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I guess the only thing I dont get it is how technically a "would be" rental Brad Richards was supposedly going to cost us Anisimov, Del Zotto, and a draft pick at last year's deadline, but Rick Nash is going to cost us Dubinsky, Kreider, 1st round pick, and possibly Stepan at a $7.8 million salary for a player that averages 65 points. That is insanity imo. I know Sather will not get swindled by the terrible GM that is Howson who gives out a $7.8 million contract to Nash when he wasn't even a free agent.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:02 PM
  #116
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Carmelo Anthony 2.0

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:03 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Who? I havent seen these short term fixes. You really dont think that if they were out there that sather wouldnt be interested in them? Or for that matter the entire league since there seems to be much more buyers than sellers as of right now.
Despite the fact that I am against trading for Nash, I have to agree with you. As far as pending UFA's go, there's not a lot to choose from at the moment. If Ruutu hadn't gotten injured, I'd be all for him over Nash. I think Kostitsyn might be worth a gamble, but he could just as easily tank - depends on what MTL would want for him. Worth kicking the tires though IMO.

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02-21-2012, 12:04 PM
  #118
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We have the lowest goals allowed in the league. Trading McDonagh or Del Zotto, who are a huge reason why our GA is so low, would be epic-ly retarded.

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02-21-2012, 12:06 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
We have the lowest goals allowed in the league. Trading McDonagh or Del Zotto, who are a huge reason why our GA is so low, would be epic-ly retarded.
They are not going to trade either, from yesterday:

Jim Cerny @JimCerny

Torts adds that with so many defensemen playing well---especially with emergence of MDZ and Mac---there is "healthy situation" on defense

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02-21-2012, 12:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
They are not going to trade either, from yesterday:

Jim Cerny @JimCerny

Torts adds that with so many defensemen playing well---especially with emergence of MDZ and Mac---there is "healthy situation" on defense
Good to hear.

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02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
One report? Bonby Mac has been saying it all along.
Again, all I've seen is speculation and conjecture of what the Rangers have to give to get Nash, not what they've actually offered. Not even Brooks has said anything concrete, other than the asking price for Nash is more than what Garrioch conjectured what the offer would be.

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02-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Just my opinion but with the league "owning" Phoenix and advancing the Devils TV money I think it's a fairly good bet that the CBA structure will change...heck if the NFL players gave back a % of revenues can't see the NHL not wanting to do the same.
The majority of teams are healthy and turning a profit despite an economic situation that has seemingly affected every other aspect of American life much harder than the NHL. The league is not going to shut down so that 3 teams in unsustainable markets can get a short term lifeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
People act like the LA deal is this awesome package. I'm not seeing it. Not at all
I agree PLD. Can you imagine what that CBJ defense looks like with JJ taking top minutes on it......THROUGH 2018! Oof.

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02-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Im not against improving the offense. I'm against the idea that to do so, they need to break the bank and acquire Nash.

There are other options to improve an offense that doesnt need much improvement.

IMO, the PP is all mental and can be fixed. Adding Nash to the PP would probably just add more confusion
Ideally you want 5 snipers on PP unit. Next would be 4 snipers and Blue Paint expert a la Graves. We have only Gaborik and MDZ who could snipe out there. Stepan is not a NHL sniper yet. The rest can only put in a rebound (still being far from Graves). It is easy to defend against 40% sniping no matter how much coaching they get. Nash is a sniper.

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02-21-2012, 12:14 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by JoeRangers View Post
This argument drives me nuts. Its worse than the people who say he will come here and put up career numbers because he will be playing with better players. What makes you think he will be a huge bust?

You wanna argue about his cap hit or that you think the Rangers will have to give up too much to get him thats fine. I hate the stupid well look at what all the other big names have done for this team in the past. Yeah look at them, for the most part they came here and did the same things they have in their career. The problem is most of the time they are paid to be a player they arent (Drury,Gomez, etc). Take a look at the big names that have been brought in for the most part they come here and put up the same numbers they have averaged in their careers. Thats what Nash is expected to do, come in and put up 35 goals and 65 points.

BTW Nash hasnt done anything? He's scored 278 goals in his career and hes still only 27. This team needs a goal scorer.

Man I'm not even 100% for getting Nash I just cant stand people saying stupid things
Kovalchuk scored a bunch of goals too, but still hasn't done squat in his career. Nash's cap hit is a joke too and he's a -23 this year.. HORRIBLE.

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Old
02-21-2012, 12:15 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Other teams. LAK is supposedly Bernier, Johnson and Loktionov +.
I don't understand. IF that is the package from LAK how do we beat that? Not from a value perspective but from a needs perspective.

From my understanding CLBJ's need defense and goaltending. That addresses both. Where as our rumored offers just offer alot of offense and B+ grade defensive prospects.

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