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UNB Varsity Reds Thread (Part 2)

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:41 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
If you are a real hockey "fan", paying 12 bucks to watch live the best hockey on the ice, in the province, shouldn't be much of a detriment. After all, it is two very good teams battling for a championship.
I don't know if I'd call it the best hockey with the Q teams around, but it's still fantastic hockey. I had family that were going to travel up from Moncton for the game last night but the bad weather the past few days kept them home.

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03-03-2013, 01:03 PM
  #502
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VredsRule raises a good point. All of the other playoff teams in the AUS and CIS appear to get a big attendance bump-up from students. UNB students all bail out of Fredericton for reading week, even the townies who appear to be able to afford to go somewhere ...

And back to what GleanerGuy said, and I've agreed with him many times on this, Fredericton is not truly a great hockey town. It is an event city (like the sellout for the UNB-Russians game or the University Cup games). Major Junior would never survive here. And as good as the V-Reds draw over the season (the best in the CIS), they work hard marketing-wise to get those numbers. Considering the quality of the product on the ice, they should sell out every game. Not gonna happen (unless they give away free tickets like the school nights).
We said the same things in Halifax. Same things. Not a hockey town, it was a basketball town, too much hockey anyway, and we had three Junior A teams, The AHL left, not enough support. Major Junior would never survive, we laughed when they announced they would arrive in 1994. The rest is history. You continue to wear the blinders on what the Q will do. All they need is a foothold, they'll do the rest, and people will believe in it, because they'll make every game an event as you say. Doesn't matter what the Reds do and doesn't work. What will work is what people see happening in Moncton and Halifax. And they'll copy it. Saint John was never the Junior hockey town Moncton, Halifax, and Charlottetown were, yet they became the first Maritime center to win Memorial Cup in a very short history. Even in the places it is "not working" i.e. Charlottetown and Sydney. They have been harping about it since they got here, well the Rocket are still here 9 years later only to have their GM state at least three times a year, "they are not going anywhere", and in Cape Breton since 1997 despite annual declarations they are not breaking even. When they are ready to expand again, you can bet you are on their radar, even if they are not poking around every day.

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03-03-2013, 02:08 PM
  #503
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There will be no QJMHL team in Fredericton any time soon? Where are they going to play out of? The AUC? Highly doubt that, and neither the O'ree or Grant Harvey have the location to host such a team.
I said it before they were built, that either the O'ree or Havery should have been a larger size arena. It's unfortunate but I don't see any jr team coming to Fredericton in the near future.

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03-03-2013, 02:35 PM
  #504
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Hypothetically speaking if Fredericton got a new arena I think that the Q would work here. Mainly because of the close proximity of so many other teams. It would create quite the martime rivalry. However, it would be far from a slam dunk.
When the Baby Habs were here I became aware of an anti-french contingent in this town that just refused to support them. While I believe this was primarily with the older generation that is no guarentee that is has gone away. I could totally see people refusing to support a Q team here because it was "too french".

Of course there are also people here who have no interest in University Hockey because Major Junior is just "so much better".

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03-03-2013, 02:46 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by UNB Bruins Fan View Post
Yeah I think I am mainly just disappointed that UNB doesn't seem to see any bump in attendance for the playoffs. Look at Alberta last night...they average probably about 1000/game and they had 2000...Carleton and Waterloo this week had their rinks jammed packed (although they appear to have pretty small capacities, but Waterloo apparently turned away 400+ last night)...UPEI only had standing rook tickets for both games against UNB...St. FX/SMU a couple years ago had what? 4-5K for their game 5.
Excellent points.

Alberta actually had over 2600 last night which was more than we did.

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03-03-2013, 04:41 PM
  #506
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There will be no QJMHL team in Fredericton any time soon? Where are they going to play out of? The AUC? Highly doubt that, and neither the O'ree or Grant Harvey have the location to host such a team.
I said it before they were built, that either the O'ree or Havery should have been a larger size arena. It's unfortunate but I don't see any jr team coming to Fredericton in the near future.
I said it was on the radar, not coming tomorrow. Besides none of that will stop them, they'll operate on a much larger budget than UNB can dream of; Nor will a 2200 person crowd for UNB when they should be getting 3500, scare them away. What interests them is, 2200? Hey we can double that easily, and take 1000 of that along the way. The benefits to the city are not exactly dressing either. They are a boon to the city owned or taxed venues, plus the spinoffs. So cities love them, the public will love them, a rink? in a place like Fredericton? lots of businesses, a government center, a booming commercial atmosphere, what would it bother BMO, Royal Bank, Irvings and the like to invest in a new rink? Finally, none of the participants think of it in the here and now, and what rink can we move into this weekend. No major business does.

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03-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Hypothetically speaking if Fredericton got a new arena I think that the Q would work here. Mainly because of the close proximity of so many other teams. It would create quite the martime rivalry. However, it would be far from a slam dunk.
When the Baby Habs were here I became aware of an anti-french contingent in this town that just refused to support them. While I believe this was primarily with the older generation that is no guarentee that is has gone away. I could totally see people refusing to support a Q team here because it was "too french".

Of course there are also people here who have no interest in University Hockey because Major Junior is just "so much better".
While I didn't notice that in the Halifax community for the AHL, there were other things,and it may well have existed there too. But Halifax, like Fredericton, had a large Loyalist influence. I don't know if that is the basis for the anti French sentiment, only that the cities are similar in those respects. It was however, a different time. The AHL came to Hfx in 1970.The franchise was based on the old time NHL model, just show up and they will come. And it worked for awhile. By the early 80's however, the media had no fears of taking the club to task for making decisions that belonged in the dark ages. About the same time the Fredericton franchise was born with the Express? They left Halifax after 23 years, and the remaining Atlantic cities, a hell of lot faster. Believe me, the Q team, led by experienced local investors, those Hfx guys, ( some very wealthy locals, John Gwynne Timothy, John Risley, the Oland family, forget which one, and others) would not make the same mistakes the AHL did. When the Q arrived, the media loved it, They had been a year without a pro team, they were without major news content fodder and the Metro Center without a major tenant. Both were chomping at the bit; they would now lead the public into unheralded praise for this team, its ownership, its policies and practices, its youthful exhuberance, it just went on and on. They'll make it work I can't stress it enough.
Quite right about the folks who will never see the value of University hockey. A major junior team will fill the arena with those people. An article was done by Atlantic Advocate shortly after the Moosehead arrival. Their interviews, confined to the local investors, and mine for whom I completed a marketing project in undergrad, to the person, extolled the greatness of this junior product over the former AHL one. In my case, when I with some bias I admit, prodded for their knowledge of the AUAA at the time, ...they looked at me like I had two heads.

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03-03-2013, 06:12 PM
  #508
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I said it was on the radar, not coming tomorrow. Besides none of that will stop them, they'll operate on a much larger budget than UNB can dream of; Nor will a 2200 person crowd for UNB when they should be getting 3500, scare them away. What interests them is, 2200? Hey we can double that easily, and take 1000 of that along the way. The benefits to the city are not exactly dressing either. They are a boon to the city owned or taxed venues, plus the spinoffs. So cities love them, the public will love them, a rink? in a place like Fredericton? lots of businesses, a government center, a booming commercial atmosphere, what would it bother BMO, Royal Bank, Irvings and the like to invest in a new rink? Finally, none of the participants think of it in the here and now, and what rink can we move into this weekend. No major business does.
Not sure what type of radar you are looking at, but we are talking at least 10 years away unfortunately. I highly doubt that there is going to be a new arena built any time soon, having just built two new twin ice arena's I don't see another one being built soon.
I would love to see a jr team here, but I won't be holding my breath.

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03-04-2013, 11:39 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Prov1X View Post
Not sure what type of radar you are looking at, but we are talking at least 10 years away unfortunately. I highly doubt that there is going to be a new arena built any time soon, having just built two new twin ice arena's I don't see another one being built soon.
I would love to see a jr team here, but I won't be holding my breath.
There are three kinds, short range, long range and medium range, but anyway, perhaps it will be ten years. What makes Fredericton so different from other Maritime communities? The town, (excuse me, city), of Summerside built a new facility for 35$ million, turned around and renamed it Credit Union Place and Eastlink Arena to relieve themselves of the operational expense. That happened virtually overnight. The AHL was not even in some Maritime cities for ten years, here and gone. I'm only saying someone is thinking about it, either hockey investors, potential Q franchise movers, yes even the city. I can hardly believe a city like Fredericton is satisfied with building two small arenas, while their largest facility, an aging venue, belongs to the university. Meanwhile they are missing out on bigger things and the city knows it.

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03-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #510
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There are three kinds, short range, long range and medium range, but anyway, perhaps it will be ten years. What makes Fredericton so different from other Maritime communities? The town, (excuse me, city), of Summerside built a new facility for 35$ million, turned around and renamed it Credit Union Place and Eastlink Arena to relieve themselves of the operational expense. That happened virtually overnight. The AHL was not even in some Maritime cities for ten years, here and gone. I'm only saying someone is thinking about it, either hockey investors, potential Q franchise movers, yes even the city. I can hardly believe a city like Fredericton is satisfied with building two small arenas, while their largest facility, an aging venue, belongs to the university. Meanwhile they are missing out on bigger things and the city knows it.
Summerside has a rink and no QMJHL team. Nor are they or Fredericton even mentioned when ever rumours come up about a QMJHL team moving. The Q has shown no appetite for expansion since the Sea Dogs and the Fog Devils. Sherbrooke was a replacement for Lewiston. If the QMJHL were to expand they risk diluting the talent pool even more and would effect their ability to compete with the OHL and WHL. If Fredericton wanted a big new arena to attract a Q team I suspect they would have built one instead of building two smaller arenas. Building an arena to attract a QMJHL team is easier said then done. I am sure the Rocket would love to have a new arena to replace the Civic Centre, but thus far none has materialized.

QMJHL hockey doesn't work in every city. The Fog Devils didn't last in St.John's, but the AHL thus far has so it can't just be the travel costs that caused the Fog Devils to fail as the AHL team is doing a lot more traveling than the Fog Devils did.

UNB has been a national title contender basically ever year for the better part of a decade. QMJHL teams simply can't compete for a title that often. In the Q if your a really good team you compete for a title maybe one out of every three years. Plus I would have to assume that ticket prices for a potential Q team in Fredericton would likely be substantially higher than what UNB charges.

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03-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #511
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Excellent points.

Alberta actually had over 2600 last night which was more than we did.
They average under 1000 during the regular season. Less than Acadia,Moncton,X etc.

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03-04-2013, 07:29 PM
  #512
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It's not a matter of snapping your fingers and making it so. The original plan for the Grant Harvey Centre called for 2,500 seats. But when costs started to get challenging, they trimmed it down. STU, which was to be the anchor tenant in the 2500 seater, looked at Willie O'Ree Place and Jen Myers, the AD at the time said "This is fine." You build an arena proportional to the community you serve. Build a 5,000 seater that is empty most of the time and listen to the taxpayers scream. If it's empty except for the night Carrie Underwood or the Kiss Tribute Band comes through...you've got troubles.Then an owner like Acadie Bathurst comes along and says: Sure, I'll move my team here. But I want parking revenue, concession revenue, I'd rather not pay rent...and that dance comes up every three years.
The Aitken Centre is a university building. They've spent some money to spruce it up over the past few years with a centre ice clock, some corner boxes, video screens, etc. Under the previous administration, they weren't receptive to letting a junior team come in that wanted to come in very badly. They don't want to let a fox into the henhouse. The two city buildings are less than five years old. There will be no renovations any time soon. The next big ticket item on the agenda in Fredericton will be a new or newly renovated Playhouse. The barking to replace that building has just started, and the city will put it off as long as they can. But eventually, they will capitulate, because the arts community will complain about how much they spent on recreational facilities and how the arts needs to be treated on par with recreation. That will be the next long range project in Fredericton. So, unless a group of investors can crack into the Aitken Centre, a Q team will not happen here.

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03-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #513
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No word on a possible Critchlow suspension?

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03-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #514
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Ruling tomorrow. Executive director Phil Currie is involved, passed up from hockey chair Pierre Arsenault. A suspension of some degree is likely.

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03-05-2013, 12:14 PM
  #515
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Summerside has a rink and no QMJHL team. Nor are they or Fredericton even mentioned when ever rumours come up about a QMJHL team moving. The Q has shown no appetite for expansion since the Sea Dogs and the Fog Devils. Sherbrooke was a replacement for Lewiston. If the QMJHL were to expand they risk diluting the talent pool even more and would effect their ability to compete with the OHL and WHL. If Fredericton wanted a big new arena to attract a Q team I suspect they would have built one instead of building two smaller arenas. Building an arena to attract a QMJHL team is easier said then done. I am sure the Rocket would love to have a new arena to replace the Civic Centre, but thus far none has materialized.

QMJHL hockey doesn't work in every city. The Fog Devils didn't last in St.John's, but the AHL thus far has so it can't just be the travel costs that caused the Fog Devils to fail as the AHL team is doing a lot more traveling than the Fog Devils did.

UNB has been a national title contender basically ever year for the better part of a decade. QMJHL teams simply can't compete for a title that often. In the Q if your a really good team you compete for a title maybe one out of every three years. Plus I would have to assume that ticket prices for a potential Q team in Fredericton would likely be substantially higher than what UNB charges.
Then why did they leave before? The AHL was there before the Q team, and Danny Williams was instrumental in bringing it back after the Fog Devils departed. The AHL left amid the other difficulties of AHL teams in Atlantic Canada. In the haste and hype to get a Q team the Junior owners paid way too much for a franchise, and it is an expensive place to live in terms of what might be termed luxury items. Williams is old school, the higher the level of the league, the better it is mentality that drove the AHL model in Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown and Sydney.
The point is not that Summerside has no team, it is how they constructed a $35 million arena in a short period of time with a lot less resources than Fredericton. And oh yes they have made plenty of noise in getting a Q team. Fredericton? No of course not, noone is going to start screaming for a team in the henhouse as gleanerguy puts it.
Business and economic prosperity go in cycles, stand still if you want, but the reason the biggest and most successful are still around are because they move, change, adapt, and they don't give up.

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03-05-2013, 01:11 PM
  #516
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It's four hours before game time as I scribble this...still no word from Phil Currie on length of suspension for Critchlow. But I see his suspension of an X basketball girl has been handed down -- from Feb. 23! Way to go, Phil. They'll pick the pope faster.

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03-05-2013, 01:37 PM
  #517
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I'm sure Phil is conversing back and forth with Gards and Stieny, trying to find a face-saving way out of this.

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03-05-2013, 01:56 PM
  #518
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I'm sure Phil is conversing back and forth with Gards and Stieny, trying to find a face-saving way out of this.
Seems like a cross CIS issue, I'm still waiting to hear about Nipissing's Brett Cook suspension for uppercutting the linesman

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03-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #519
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Breaking News: 5 games......


I'm sure UNB will appeal, but so did UPEI. And it's hard for Phil to over rule himself......

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03-05-2013, 02:29 PM
  #520
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Personally, I don't think Phil could run a two roll ****house.

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03-05-2013, 02:34 PM
  #521
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So true........

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03-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #522
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Well considering UNB has at most 5 games remaining.....

I wonder if Wudrick is regretting leaving now (if the reason he left in the first place was because of playing time, of course)


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03-05-2013, 03:37 PM
  #523
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Then why did they leave before? The AHL was there before the Q team, and Danny Williams was instrumental in bringing it back after the Fog Devils departed. The AHL left amid the other difficulties of AHL teams in Atlantic Canada. In the haste and hype to get a Q team the Junior owners paid way too much for a franchise, and it is an expensive place to live in terms of what might be termed luxury items. Williams is old school, the higher the level of the league, the better it is mentality that drove the AHL model in Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown and Sydney.
The point is not that Summerside has no team, it is how they constructed a $35 million arena in a short period of time with a lot less resources than Fredericton. And oh yes they have made plenty of noise in getting a Q team. Fredericton? No of course not, noone is going to start screaming for a team in the henhouse as gleanerguy puts it.
Business and economic prosperity go in cycles, stand still if you want, but the reason the biggest and most successful are still around are because they move, change, adapt, and they don't give up.
The franchise fee the owners paid to get a Q team has nothing to do with whether they were successful or not. All of the recent QMJHL relocation rumours have been centred around teams moving to Quebec. Seeing as the Rocket would almost assuredly veto any team moving to Summerside it is not something that has much chance of happening. Summerside had not just built 2 smaller arenas recently. Fredericton has. Building an arena guarantees you nothing and it comes with a lot of risk. How is that arena that Kansas City built for a supposed NHL or NBA team looking right now? Summerside is one example of a new arena being built. Charlottetown has an actual team and a need for a new rink and they still don't have one.

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03-05-2013, 04:17 PM
  #524
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The AUS confirms the 5 game suspension...

http://www.atlanticuniversitysport.c...6a6tBk.twitter

I find it interesting that it says he is not permitted to play any exhibition games until he serves the 5 games (playoffs or regular season). So, if UNB plays only 3 or 4 more games the rest of this year he won't be allowed to play any pre-season exhibition games at all next year, since he would still have a game or 2 left on the suspension? I thought exhibition games were excluded?

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03-05-2013, 04:34 PM
  #525
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Interesting "stat" from Kilfoil....the last time UNB played SMU at the Forum the Huskies net came off its moorings 14 times to stop play. The UNB net? Not once. I hope they try to make the refs aware of that in the early going.

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