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[TB/COL/DET] Downie to COL, Quincey to DET, DET's 2012 1st & Sebastien Piche to TB

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:20 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
That's all hypotheticals. No guarantee to happen. And then what? You have a bunch of stockpiled picks in an average draft.
Exactly, which is the opposite of what you're painting with your end-of-the-world scenario. Like it or not we just got a first rounder for a guy that has had 22 goals, 10 goals, and 12 goals now. I love Downs, his skillset and all that but between the penalties and his playstyle, its no surprise to see Steve go another direction.

Picks are being moved for a goaltender. Count on it.

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02-21-2012, 06:24 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Exactly, which is the opposite of what you're painting with your end-of-the-world scenario. Like it or not we just got a first rounder for a guy that has had 22 goals, 10 goals, and 12 goals now. I love Downs, his skillset and all that but between the penalties and his playstyle, its no surprise to see Steve go another direction.

Picks are being moved for a goaltender. Count on it.
Picks aren't worth players like Downie. If you want picks, sell the players that are UFA like Clark, Hall..etc. Those guys will net you picks by teams wanting to add pieces at the deadline for the playoff run. Not effective, physical, agitating wingers that (were) a part of the core.

Just don't get this deal at all. It's all basically crossing our ****ing fingers and hoping for the best in June and July. Don't like playing it that way.

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02-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  #153
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Downie is worth whatever he can get, and I'm sure this isn't the first call SFY got about him.

Right now, I don't love the deal, but that is because Downie is one of my favorite players on the team. We lose some grit, but we have a number of top-6 quality guys that can fill in, and with Malone's NMC Downie may have been the odd man out.

The fact is we have what, 6-7 picks in the top 60 of the draft this summer? That's restocking the cupboards and filling up holes type of picks. I am rooting for an early Red Wings exit this year, though (no offense!).

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02-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by viktors89 View Post
20+ goals

GREAT play in the boards, he's a beast at that
I like the sounds of that!

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02-21-2012, 06:28 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
Picks aren't worth players like Downie. If you want picks, sell the players that are UFA like Clark, Hall..etc. Those guys will net you picks by teams wanting to add pieces at the deadline for the playoff run. Not effective, physical, agitating wingers that (were) a part of the core.

Just don't get this deal at all. It's all basically crossing our ****ing fingers and hoping for the best in June and July. Don't like playing it that way.
They are when they get you a goaltender for the next ten years.

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02-21-2012, 06:29 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
They are when they get you a goaltender for the next ten years.
Did we get said goaltender yet?

So we're crossing our fingers until then, no?

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02-21-2012, 06:30 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
Did we get said goaltender yet?

So we're crossing our fingers until then, no?
Yes, lets pretend its a button that provides immediate satisfaction.

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02-21-2012, 06:34 PM
  #158
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Can't tell me we couldn't have got a goalie straight up for Downie.

Just don't like trading "known" commodities for the unknown. It's hockey, not high risk poker.

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02-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
Can't tell me we couldn't have got a goalie straight up for Downie.

Just don't like trading "known" commodities for the unknown. It's hockey, not high risk poker.
Who, then?

Being a general manager is essentially like managing a hedge fund and mitigating risk. Schneider is really as close to the real deal as you're going to get without throwing 3 firsts and a roster player for a starter.

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02-21-2012, 06:45 PM
  #160
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make us understand this Stevie Y...

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02-21-2012, 06:49 PM
  #161
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It may be because of Vinny being out for awhile. With him out, our playoff chances take a HUGE hit...

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02-21-2012, 07:00 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
It may be because of Vinny being out for awhile. With him out, our playoff chances take a HUGE hit...
Still, Yzerman could move other pieces less valuable than Downie.

Yzerman says he's doing this stuff to make us a contender and win a cup, but I don't understand how Downie wouldn't help us accomplish that? Why would Yzerman not want him to be part of this team's future? Although he's not part of the core, he is a very important and valuable piece on this team.

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02-21-2012, 07:03 PM
  #163
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I'm just trying to rationalize or explain. Like I said, right now I don't like this move, but we have a good amount of forward depth (especially top six) which may have left Downie as the odd man out. And if we can become Red Wings south with these moves, I'll forgive SteveY.

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02-21-2012, 07:05 PM
  #164
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I thought he was part of the core? Making room for Ashton next year?

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02-21-2012, 07:06 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Still, Yzerman could move other pieces less valuable than Downie.

Yzerman says he's doing this stuff to make us a contender and win a cup, but I don't understand how Downie wouldn't help us accomplish that? Why would Yzerman not want him to be part of this team's future? Although he's not part of the core, he is a very important and valuable piece on this team.
I think you can find a gritty player like Downie who won't get stupid calls all the time. I won't say all of them were his fault cause refs liked to single him out. That's also something that we can do without. As much as I love Downie he can be replaced and a more productive player can fill his top six role better anyways.

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02-21-2012, 07:14 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
I'm just trying to rationalize or explain. Like I said, right now I don't like this move, but we have a good amount of forward depth (especially top six) which may have left Downie as the odd man out. And if we can become Red Wings south with these moves, I'll forgive SteveY.
We only have 5 top 6 forwards now

Vinny
St. Louis
Stamkos
Malone
Purcell.

When it comes to prospects and young players like Connolly, Ashton, Namestnikov, Panik, Killorn, Kucherov and Johnson and Peca yeah we could possibly create an amazing good and deep team in the future. Some of them could even challenge for a roster spot next season.

And I agree if Yzerman can create a great future for this team, good, but right now before more moves are made, this is hard to rationalize. Looks more like a rebuild right now instead of a retool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
I think you can find a gritty player like Downie who won't get stupid calls all the time. I won't say all of them were his fault cause refs liked to single him out. That's also something that we can do without. As much as I love Downie he can be replaced and a more productive player can fill his top six role better anyways.
I'll disagree. You can find a gritty player like Downie, but finding one who also has all the other skills he has and play in the top 6 is tough. That's why guys like Lucic are so coveted. Now add that to being a playoff baller, and that's a hard player to get. I think it'd be easier to replace a prototypical power forward like Malone.


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02-21-2012, 07:18 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by MrMcGz View Post
I thought he was part of the core? Making room for Ashton next year?
If anything, it'd be Conacher. But again, he's not signed to an NHL contract yet.

Just too much "unknown" right now. Hard to figure out what the **** is actually going on.

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02-21-2012, 07:29 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
I think you can find a gritty player like Downie who won't get stupid calls all the time. I won't say all of them were his fault cause refs liked to single him out. That's also something that we can do without. As much as I love Downie he can be replaced and a more productive player can fill his top six role better anyways.
Downie is much more than simply a gritty player - can't discount that Downie was also a skilled, young player that could play with that edge, and with a very reasonable salary. His playoff performance last season was outstanding. Yes, he took penalties, deserved and not, but those penalties were, in my opinion, well counteracted by all the positives Downie gave this team - that they now lack on this roster and might not be so easily replaced.

Understand this team needs rebuilding, but don't like it to be at the expense of Downie - a young, useful player that could be built around.

And, yes, this team needs a goalie (and defense) and hopefully Yzerman gets some of that - but every other GM knows the Lightning's needs of course and don't see them making it easy on Tampa - the Lightning's own 1st might have to be in play and then will that be worth it, considering where that pick is likely to be? Maybe overly pessimistic but seen this 'trade for our future goalie' scenario a time or two and that hasn't turned out pretty (and yes, understand that was different leadership).

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02-21-2012, 07:38 PM
  #169
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SY: "It’s upsetting to people maybe today, but I believe strongly that a team has to be built through the draft." #TBLightning
I agree with Yzerman. If you can't draft, you won't go far. We saw this when he lost players from our cup team and couldn't replace them through the farm or through free agency. Good drafting has to be a high priority to maintain a certain level we are trying to reach. But Downie's still a young guy and plays with our other players and under our coaches systems just as good as anyone. He went through the Admirals, made a career here, grew up with this team and Stammer. Trading a quality high player like Downie to try and draft another Downie doesn't make much sense.

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02-21-2012, 07:46 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
https://twitter.com/#!/TBLightning


I agree with Yzerman. If you can't draft, you won't go far. We saw this when he lost players from our cup team and couldn't replace them through the farm or through free agency. Good drafting has to be a high priority to maintain a certain level we are trying to reach. But Downie's still a young guy and plays with our other players and under our coaches systems just as good as anyone. He went through the Admirals, made a career here, grew up with this team and Stammer. Trading a quality high player like Downie to try and draft another Downie doesn't make much sense.
This is my line of thought. If you trade players like Downie it's for players (in our case a defenseman or goalie) that you get in return that can benefit you now and for the future. We got neither. This pick could be flipped in a deal for a goalie or it could be a 20's range pick that means very little, in which case trading Downie would have been a failure. Just not fully getting this at all.

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02-21-2012, 07:53 PM
  #171
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Downie can be replaced. I understand he was a fan favorite and I liked him too, just saying we can find a player like him for cheaper and possibly get a more productive player on the top six who doesn't get a
lot of penalties.

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02-21-2012, 07:59 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
Downie can be replaced. I understand he was a fan favorite and I liked him too, just saying we can find a player like him for cheaper and possibly get a more productive player on the top six who doesn't get a
lot of penalties.
Imagine Labrie with Downies numbers... it can be done.

Trevor Smith could match his production, potentially.

Have patience guys, just have a little trust.

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02-21-2012, 08:05 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Imagine Labrie with Downies numbers... it can be done.

Trevor Smith could match his production, potentially.

Have patience guys, just have a little trust.
That's a little unrealistic of Smith and Labrie.

I still trust Yzerman. 2 years later I'm still very happy he's our GM and I know we're in good hands, but right now I don't like this trade. If this becomes the start of something amazing from that pick later on, great, but right now I don't like it.

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02-21-2012, 08:14 PM
  #174
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Yes, lets pretend its a button that provides immediate satisfaction.

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02-21-2012, 08:17 PM
  #175
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We may suck now, but I have no doubt we'll be contenders again in 3-4 years.

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