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The Out of Town Thread part XXXIII (All non Habs related news here)

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Old
03-03-2012, 11:03 AM
  #701
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Good job Lightining. Good signing as far as Danick Gauthier is concerned. Might not be an offensive player in this league, but I will bet he becomes a serviceable NHL'er. That was such an easy signing for the Habs, really.....But hey, no need for the Habs to sign UFA's in the Q. It's not like our actual first centerman was a UFA anyway....

Aside from DD, whether it's from the Q or the league Timmins loves as far as the NCAA is concerned, I'm waiting for a real interesting UFA signing. Shinnimin and Gauther made the most sense. Great seasons and were playing with habs prospects who had to be seen quite a few times and you actually have some insight on the players thanks to our prospects.
Good call, I also hope for something interesting as far as non-drafted UFA's. I also hope to see another good Euro signing.

I did have high hopes for Nash to make it as a depth dman before his injury.

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03-03-2012, 11:17 AM
  #702
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Which interesting overagers are left for signing? At forward, I can only see Halmo and Hughesman being potentially decent signings. Seems like slim pickings.

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03-03-2012, 11:22 AM
  #703
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Burke would be crucified in Montreal for the **** he's pulled in the past 4 years.

No idea how a guy can saunter out to a microphone every season, with his loose tie and sweaty brow, complain about how frustrating it is to be an NHL GM and not catch any flak for it.

We'd all be creaming our pants if we had got Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner for Francois Beauchemin. How about the package of CRAP he sent to Calgary to get Phaneuf and Aulie? He's starting to turn it around and become a good player again. We'd have all been ecstatic had the deal been done here, let's not pretend otherwise.

The Kessel trade is obviously a blunder, to an extent. Atleast they did get a flashy 35-40 goal scorer out of the deal though. Something that to this day we still do not have here.

Complain all you want about his personality, at the very least the guy is willing to take some chances to improve his hockey club. Unbelievable how he continues to fleece other GMs in the majority of the trades he makes, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hates the Leafs.

Lupul has more points than anyone on this team, and Gardiner would be our 3rd best defenseman behind Gorges and Subban... In his rookie year. Phaneuf for all his defensive lapses is still a very good offensive defenseman who would have his place on our team any day of the week. He has a stranglehold lead in points over Kaberle and Subban this season.


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Old
03-03-2012, 11:24 AM
  #704
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We'd all be creaming our pants if we had got Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner for Francois Beauchemin. How about the package of CRAP he sent to Calgary to get Phaneuf and Aulie? He's starting to turn it around and become a good player again. We'd have all been ecstatic had the deal been done here, let's not pretend otherwise.

The Kessel trade is obviously a blunder, to an extent. Atleast they did get a flashy 35-40 goal scorer out of the deal though. Something that to this day we still do not have here.

Complain all you want about his personality, at the very least the guy is willing to take some chances to improve his hockey club. Unbelievable how he continues to fleece other GMs in the majority of the trades he makes, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hates the Leafs.

Lupul has more points than anyone on this team, and Gardiner would be our 3rd best defenseman behind Gorges and Subban... In his rookie year.
And yet that team the genius Burke put together has a worse record than we do in 2012, and has gotten blown out every time it faces a real challenge.

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03-03-2012, 11:29 AM
  #705
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And yet that team the genius Burke put together has a worse record than we do in 2012, and has gotten blown out every time it faces a real challenge.
While it is indirectly his responsibility, the Leafs main woes are having no goalie and their former coach being a coach couldn't coach defense or the penalty kill. The rest of the team isn't that different, quality-wise, from other teams in the weak ass East.

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03-03-2012, 11:34 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
We'd all be creaming our pants if we had got Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner for Francois Beauchemin. How about the package of CRAP he sent to Calgary to get Phaneuf and Aulie? He's starting to turn it around and become a good player again. We'd have all been ecstatic had the deal been done here, let's not pretend otherwise.

The Kessel trade is obviously a blunder, to an extent. Atleast they did get a flashy 35-40 goal scorer out of the deal though. Something that to this day we still do not have here.

Complain all you want about his personality, at the very least the guy is willing to take some chances to improve his hockey club. Unbelievable how he continues to fleece other GMs in the majority of the trades he makes, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hates the Leafs.

Lupul has more points than anyone on this team, and Gardiner would be our 3rd best defenseman behind Gorges and Subban... In his rookie year.
So how many times does Burke have to 'fleece' other GMs before his team actually improves enough to be playing hockey mid-April? This board is obsessed with the idea that playing for 8th is loser talk, so how can Burke's time in Toronto be considered anything but an abject failure?

And Phaneuf may have been playing decently earlier in the year, but he's as big a part of the problem in Toronto as anybody, and a major part of their slide in 2012. His contract is an albatross, and that Burke made him his team's captain is ridiculous.

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03-03-2012, 11:35 AM
  #707
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While it is indirectly his responsibility, the Leafs main woes are having no goalie and their former coach being a coach couldn't coach defense or the penalty kill. The rest of the team isn't that different, quality-wise, from other teams in the weak ass East.
And that is definitely Burke's fault. He created a horribly unbalanced team with no leadership to guide the younger players. Do you really want Schenn and Gardiner learning from Phaneuf?

He made some great trades, one terrible trade, but besides that his ego has gotten in the way of creating a balanced team.

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03-03-2012, 11:46 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
So how many times does Burke have to 'fleece' other GMs before his team actually improves enough to be playing hockey mid-April? This board is obsessed with the idea that playing for 8th is loser talk, so how can Burke's time in Toronto be considered anything but an abject failure?

And Phaneuf may have been playing decently earlier in the year, but he's as big a part of the problem in Toronto as anybody, and a major part of their slide in 2012. His contract is an albatross, and that Burke made him his team's captain is ridiculous.
If Phaneuf's contract is an albatross what does that make Gomez, exactly?

Other teams would take flyers on Phaneuf and I would bet the vast majority if cap space was available would gladly take him on their team. One of the reasons Toronto is where they are has been addressed, coaching. They've had the league's worst PK the entire Wilson tenure, and they have had some decent players to work with on the PK that've had some success elsewhere in those roles. The other problem is the lack of production from their supporting cast, players that we're productive last season. Guys like Kulemin and to a lesser extent MacArthur. Grabovski was pitiful for a while and finally seems to be back on his horse. Schenn is going through some rough patches.

The team isn't perfect, I'm not implying it is perfect. But why can't you see it for what it is? Burke took guys like Beauchemin and flipped them for younger players with big potential. When is the last time a GM has done that in Montreal? The only remotely similar situation is when we got a first(Pacioretty) and Gorges for Rivet. And it's taken 4 years for the fruits of that trade to truely pay dividends. I include Gainey in the current form of management on this team. Why is it that Burke can flip mediocre players like Ian White and Matt Stajan for a slupping budding-star like Phaneuf, or Beauchemin for a slumping/injury plagued Lupul (who still had good potential) and a blue chip prospect like Gardiner and yet we trade away LEGITIMATE players like Mike Ribeiro for garbage like Janne Niinimaa? Both Kostitsyn brothers for in-effect a 2nd round pick. Latendresse, for NOTHING. Lost McDonaugh and Higgins for NOTHING.

There is a serious issue in this team's professional scouting department (Gainey/Gauthier) and the way they manage our assets. ANYONE who thinks this team is better at asset management than Brian Burke is looking at this team with rose couloured glasses, and you can ask any analyst out there and they will agree with that.

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03-03-2012, 12:33 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
If Phaneuf's contract is an albatross what does that make Gomez, exactly?

Other teams would take flyers on Phaneuf and I would bet the vast majority if cap space was available would gladly take him on their team. One of the reasons Toronto is where they are has been addressed, coaching. They've had the league's worst PK the entire Wilson tenure, and they have had some decent players to work with on the PK that've had some success elsewhere in those roles. The other problem is the lack of production from their supporting cast, players that we're productive last season. Guys like Kulemin and to a lesser extent MacArthur. Grabovski was pitiful for a while and finally seems to be back on his horse. Schenn is going through some rough patches.

The team isn't perfect, I'm not implying it is perfect. But why can't you see it for what it is? Burke took guys like Beauchemin and flipped them for younger players with big potential. When is the last time a GM has done that in Montreal? The only remotely similar situation is when we got a first(Pacioretty) and Gorges for Rivet. And it's taken 4 years for the fruits of that trade to truely pay dividends. I include Gainey in the current form of management on this team. Why is it that Burke can flip mediocre players like Ian White and Matt Stajan for a slupping budding-star like Phaneuf, or Beauchemin for a slumping/injury plagued Lupul (who still had good potential) and a blue chip prospect like Gardiner and yet we trade away LEGITIMATE players like Mike Ribeiro for garbage like Janne Niinimaa? Both Kostitsyn brothers for in-effect a 2nd round pick. Latendresse, for NOTHING. Lost McDonaugh and Higgins for NOTHING.

There is a serious issue in this team's professional scouting department (Gainey/Gauthier) and the way they manage our assets. ANYONE who thinks this team is better at asset management than Brian Burke is looking at this team with rose couloured glasses, and you can ask any analyst out there and they will agree with that.
Timmins has done a great job at drafting then the GM and coaches ruin it.

Toronto has done a bad job at drafting but the GM overall does a better job at trading.

We need better management to stop the gifts that the GMs have messed up in lopsided trades.

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03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Timmins has done a great job at drafting then the GM and coaches ruin it.

Toronto has done a bad job at drafting but the GM overall does a better job at trading.

We need better management to stop the gifts that the GMs have messed up in lopsided trades.
Exactly. I agree our amateur scouting is a notch well above that in Toronto, I never said otherwise.

My issue is with the professional scouting and the asset management that Gainey/Gauthier have been doing. Player development is obviously an issue, but like you said a lot that is going to fall into the hands of the coach. Some players will never mesh with a coach, that's not something exclusive to Montreal.

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03-03-2012, 12:42 PM
  #711
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If Phaneuf's contract is an albatross what does that make Gomez, exactly?

Other teams would take flyers on Phaneuf and I would bet the vast majority if cap space was available would gladly take him on their team. One of the reasons Toronto is where they are has been addressed, coaching. They've had the league's worst PK the entire Wilson tenure, and they have had some decent players to work with on the PK that've had some success elsewhere in those roles. The other problem is the lack of production from their supporting cast, players that we're productive last season. Guys like Kulemin and to a lesser extent MacArthur. Grabovski was pitiful for a while and finally seems to be back on his horse. Schenn is going through some rough patches.

The team isn't perfect, I'm not implying it is perfect. But why can't you see it for what it is? Burke took guys like Beauchemin and flipped them for younger players with big potential. When is the last time a GM has done that in Montreal? The only remotely similar situation is when we got a first(Pacioretty) and Gorges for Rivet. And it's taken 4 years for the fruits of that trade to truely pay dividends. I include Gainey in the current form of management on this team. Why is it that Burke can flip mediocre players like Ian White and Matt Stajan for a slupping budding-star like Phaneuf, or Beauchemin for a slumping/injury plagued Lupul (who still had good potential) and a blue chip prospect like Gardiner and yet we trade away LEGITIMATE players like Mike Ribeiro for garbage like Janne Niinimaa? Both Kostitsyn brothers for in-effect a 2nd round pick. Latendresse, for NOTHING. Lost McDonaugh and Higgins for NOTHING.

There is a serious issue in this team's professional scouting department (Gainey/Gauthier) and the way they manage our assets. ANYONE who thinks this team is better at asset management than Brian Burke is looking at this team with rose couloured glasses, and you can ask any analyst out there and they will agree with that.
I didn't even bring up how I rate Habs management or how they should be rated. My argument was that by the 'standards' this fan base holds, Burke would be run out of town after 4 seasons of no playoffs. Again, Burke's cult of personality, and the fact that he isn't our GM, blinds people to his failures.

But if you want to compare management teams head-to-head, I'd take the modicum of playoff success we've had since the lockout, bad trades and all, over all the years of floundering in Toronto despite the sexy trades and 'tell-it-like-it-is' press conferences. I'd obviously rather have something much better than both, but when forced to choose between them it's obvious to me.

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03-03-2012, 12:42 PM
  #712
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Exactly. I agree our amateur scouting is a notch well above that in Toronto, I never said otherwise.

My issue is with the professional scouting and the asset management that Gainey/Gauthier have been doing. Player development is obviously an issue, but like you said a lot that is going to fall into the hands of the coach. Some players will never mesh with a coach, that's not something exclusive to Montreal.
Leafs have pretty good Euro scouting though. Luckily they seem to not listen to him often.

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03-03-2012, 12:52 PM
  #713
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I didn't even bring up how I rate Habs management or how they should be rated. My argument was that by the 'standards' this fan base holds, Burke would be run out of town after 4 seasons of no playoffs. Again, Burke's cult of personality, and the fact that he isn't our GM, blinds people to his failures.

But if you want to compare management teams head-to-head, I'd take the modicum of playoff success we've had since the lockout, bad trades and all, over all the years of floundering in Toronto despite the sexy trades and 'tell-it-like-it-is' press conferences. I'd obviously rather have something much better than both, but when forced to choose between them it's obvious to me.
I guess I agree with what you say in that regard, Burke's plan for immediate playoff contention has obviously failed and I'm not overly surprised.. He had VERY VERY little to work with when he was given the keys, it was like being given the keys to a Ford Tempo. That being said I am impressed with how he managed to take questionable assets and turn them into actual assets for today and the future. Again, something this management group has floundered to do. Argument can be made as to who has a brighter future based on current group between the two teams, and I might even be inclined to even pick the Habs despite how much praise I give Burke. However, this mostly on the merit of how good Timmins is at the draft table, where as the vast majority of Toronto's success has hinged on outside draftin & development. I think with a new management core in place this summer, we will have the opportunity to build on a decent core and put us ahead of Toronto without question.

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Leafs have pretty good Euro scouting though. Luckily they seem to not listen to him often.
They do. I guess we are lucky for that, although we do fairly well in eastern europe ourselves. Our issue is the lack of success we've had in Scandenavia since Koivu/Naslund.

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03-03-2012, 01:35 PM
  #714
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Isles 2-1 on the Bruins

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03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
  #715
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Isles 2-1 on the Bruins
Please hold up!

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03-03-2012, 01:38 PM
  #716
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Also worthy of note, Moulson is 2 goals away from his 3rd straight 30-goal season.

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03-03-2012, 02:00 PM
  #717
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Also worthy of note, Moulson is 2 goals away from his 3rd straight 30-goal season.
Just insane, 9th round pick of the Pens, great contract too.

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03-03-2012, 02:02 PM
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Apparently Tuuka Rask got injured and it looked pretty bad. Taken from the main board.

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03-03-2012, 02:13 PM
  #719
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2-2 in Boston

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03-03-2012, 02:14 PM
  #720
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We'd all be creaming our pants if we had got Joffrey Lupul and Jake Gardiner for Francois Beauchemin. How about the package of CRAP he sent to Calgary to get Phaneuf and Aulie? He's starting to turn it around and become a good player again. We'd have all been ecstatic had the deal been done here, let's not pretend otherwise.

The Kessel trade is obviously a blunder, to an extent. Atleast they did get a flashy 35-40 goal scorer out of the deal though. Something that to this day we still do not have here.

Complain all you want about his personality, at the very least the guy is willing to take some chances to improve his hockey club. Unbelievable how he continues to fleece other GMs in the majority of the trades he makes, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hates the Leafs.

Lupul has more points than anyone on this team, and Gardiner would be our 3rd best defenseman behind Gorges and Subban... In his rookie year. Phaneuf for all his defensive lapses is still a very good offensive defenseman who would have his place on our team any day of the week. He has a stranglehold lead in points over Kaberle and Subban this season.
Burkie is no different from any other GM, he has made some nice moves, and some questionable one's....the one thing that I noticed was, 4 years ago when he came over to the Leafs, he said he builds his teams from the net out...and ever since he has said that, their team doesn't have a number 1 goalie, and he has 4 seasons to address this?

So, for as much as he blows hot air, he doesn't even listen to himself? Maybe he hasn't been able to get Dan Cloutier out of retirment?

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03-03-2012, 02:32 PM
  #721
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Both Kostitsyn brothers for in-effect a 2nd round pick. Latendresse, for NOTHING. Lost McDonaugh and Higgins for NOTHING.
The bolded part makes me want to cry. What a waste, especially Andrei K. The AK-46 downward spiral is the worst thing about having Coach DC (Dump and Chase/Developmentally Challenged) this season.

But I wouldn't worry too much about Lats - when was the last time he played? And really, Pouliot's first season here everyone was convinced he was going to be awesome when he was on a goal scoring tear. He was one of our best even strength producers, in my opinion a career that could have flourished had Martin not lost all confidence in him causing the player to do so as well..

And Higgins was a lost cause. He needed four teams to finally settle in Vancouver.

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03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
  #722
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3-2 Isles.
Love it. And I must confess I have a soft spot for that team, tanking issues aside.

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03-03-2012, 02:36 PM
  #723
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3-2 Isles.
Love it. And I must confess I have a soft spot for that team, tanking issues aside.
Anybody who can beat the Bruins...I luv it !

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03-03-2012, 02:36 PM
  #724
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What has happened to the Bruins of November? Their goalies aren`t playing as well as before or the team is collapsing? They better put themselves together before the POffs (or not).

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03-03-2012, 02:41 PM
  #725
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And Bruins lose to the Islanders...AHAHAHA! Back to the average team that they should be.

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