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Dreger: Sharks strong contender for Nash

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Old
02-22-2012, 01:25 PM
  #251
hockeyball
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Originally Posted by irbelikewall View Post
I'm glad you aren't Doug Wilson
I can't wait till Doug Wilson does something stupid and trade Pavelski for Nash and all these people come out of the woodwork to tell us how much better our team is going to be.

And then the team will be worse, and no one will understand...

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02-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Tiburones View Post
If I'm Columbus and SJ won't give up Cooter, I'm going for (at least) the following:

Pavelski
Demers/Braun
Sateri/Stalock/Greiss
1st round pick

If I'm Doug Wilson, I make the move in a heartbeat for Nash. Assuming health and defense/special teams, that leaves a damn stacked team.
Do not wanna give up Pavs and that seems a bit excessive

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02-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
like i said the other day, 1st, 2nd, mitchell, freddie hamilton, nick petrecki.

could you imagine that team.

thornton, pavs, nash
marleau, couture, clowe
mcginn, havlat, moore
handzus, wingels, desjardins (ferry, sheppard, winchester)
How do you plan on fitting that under the cap next season? Clowe would at least have to go the other way.

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02-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think Couture gives him a pretty good run for his money. They are pretty equal defensively and Couture has superior offensive instincts. Pavelski is interesting, he's very good at everything, great at nothing.
No ****ing way. Cooch is a bit better than Pavelski offensively, but Pavs is in his own league defensively on this team. Cooch gets smoked by the likes of Toews, Datsyuk, etc., where Pavs can hold is own against them. He plays some of the toughest minutes in the entire NHL, yet has a positive shot-differential and already has a 20 goal season, which, I've established from looking back at box scores, is not due to some magical Thornton effect.

Can we just agree that Pavs will not be traded for Nash and let it be done with? Pavs for Nash straight up is a bad trade for the Sharks. Pavs is the most pivotal forward we have, night in, night out.

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02-22-2012, 01:27 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
How do you plan on fitting that under the cap next season? Clowe would at least have to go the other way.
worry about next season, well next season.

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02-22-2012, 01:28 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
worry about next season, well next season.
Be ready to expect a lot of lop-sided trades since GMs know you have to get rid of players. You're severely gutting the team in hopes to get the Stanley Cup, which won't even be guaranteed.

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02-22-2012, 01:29 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
How do you plan on fitting that under the cap next season? Clowe would at least have to go the other way.
Well, I think that the idea would be to take the most underachieving playoff performer in the last round (sans injury), which I suspect will be Clowe, and flip him for a young player after this run.

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02-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I can't wait till Doug Wilson does something stupid and trade Pavelski for Nash and all these people come out of the woodwork to tell us how much better our team is going to be.

And then the team will be worse, and no one will understand...
I feel like that's what's going to happen too.

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02-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
i think weve seen what murrays absence has done. hes off the table for me.

clowe + our 1st round should be enough for Howson if we go off the vermette trade lol.
This isn't even a starting point for Nash and the two moves have nothing to do w/ each other...Vermette has a big contract for a 50 point player and I'd imagine that CBJ might not have gotten better offers for him. It's a fantastic move for the Coyotes.

Columbus would be very wise to wait until the offseason to move Nash but if they don't, it will be for a package that they want...I still don't think Clowe gets anything done unless it's w/ Braun, Greiss + a 1st and even then I'm not sure it gets it done.

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02-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by BigDmitriy View Post
This. And plus, Clowe was never all that great in the playoffs either...so I think a deal around Clowe, Murray, Demers/Braun, 1st, and anything else needed for Nash would be worth it, but otherwise, as I said, no way.

Go Sharks.
You can't give up two defensemen. We'd be back to where we were last year. Colin White would be guaranteed a spot in the lineup. As of right now, if all the defensemen are healthy, T-Mac has the option to healthy scratch White but with Murray and Demers/Braun gone, White might get a top 4 spot ala Wallin last year.

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02-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think Couture gives him a pretty good run for his money. They are pretty equal defensively and Couture has superior offensive instincts. Pavelski is interesting, he's very good at everything, great at nothing.
I strongly disagree. I don't like to separate offense and defense when considering a player's value; I really think it only makes sense to separate the two if you're concerned with things like player development.

In terms of overall ability to influence goal differential, Pavelski is miles ahead of Couture. He plays against some of the toughest competition of any forward in the league, starts more shifts in the defensive zone than any other Shark and still has some of the best possession numbers not only on the team but in the NHL. Not many players in this league can face top lines every night, start in the wrong end of the ice more often than not and consistently ensure that the opposition touches the puck as little as possible. The play is predominantly in the offensive zone when Pavelski is on the ice because of his unmatched creativity and ability to win puck battles and he creates tons of scoring opportunities when he's there.

Couture is obviously awesome too but he faces second-tier competition and McLellan still shelters him in terms of zonestarts. He takes full advantage of that opportunity but he's not as good as Pavelski yet. I have little doubt he will be in the future.

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02-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I can't wait till Doug Wilson does something stupid and trade Pavelski for Nash and all these people come out of the woodwork to tell us how much better our team is going to be.

And then the team will be worse, and no one will understand...
I honestly think DW is too smart for that, and I hope he proves me right. Nash is very over rated, and I don't like his style of play at all. He literally plays next to no defense.

Pavs is one of the cornerstones of this franchise currently, and should be for the next 5 years. Trading him would be a huge mistake.

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02-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
No ****ing way. Cooch is a bit better than Pavelski offensively, but Pavs is in his own league defensively on this team. Cooch gets smoked by the likes of Toews, Datsyuk, etc., where Pavs can hold is own against them. He plays some of the toughest minutes in the entire NHL, yet has a positive shot-differential and already has a 20 goal season, which, I've established from looking back at box scores, is not due to some magical Thornton effect.

Can we just agree that Pavs will not be traded for Nash and let it be done with? Pavs for Nash straight up is a bad trade for the Sharks. Pavs is the most pivotal forward we have, night in, night out.
oh so thornton attracting most of the time 2 players to try and take the puck away from him doesn't have an affect with pavs getting open?

you cannot look at box scores to tell how much of a influence thornton has on pavs game just magically becoming much better stats wise.

thornton is 1 of only about a dozen players in the nhl that demands respect when he's on the ice, if teams didn't pay so much attention to him on the ice he would still be shredding the league apart with his passes.

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02-22-2012, 01:35 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
oh so thornton attracting most of the time 2 players to try and take the puck away from him doesn't have an affect with pavs getting open?

you cannot look at box scores to tell how much of a influence thornton has on pavs game just magically becoming much better stats wise.

thornton is 1 of only about a dozen players in the nhl that demands respect when he's on the ice, if teams didn't pay so much attention to him on the ice he would still be shredding the league apart with his passes.
Pavelski, from what I've seen, doesn't require a ton of space to work in. He's sneaky like that. But besides that, IIRC Thornton has had the primary assist on only like 6 or 7 of Pavs 22 goals so far.

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02-22-2012, 01:36 PM
  #265
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This is like trying to date a girl, you don't want to come off too strong or too desperate.

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02-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
oh so thornton attracting most of the time 2 players to try and take the puck away from him doesn't have an affect with pavs getting open?

you cannot look at box scores to tell how much of a influence thornton has on pavs game just magically becoming much better stats wise.

thornton is 1 of only about a dozen players in the nhl that demands respect when he's on the ice, if teams didn't pay so much attention to him on the ice he would still be shredding the league apart with his passes.
Yeah, I mean it's not like Pavelski was doing the exact same thing each of the last three years.

But I guess that was because Wellwood and Clowe are two of the other eleven players in the NHL that demand respect when they're on the ice?

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02-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #267
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Maybe the Sharks are just keeping their name in it to keep the price high and keep competing teams from making a move.

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02-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Maybe the Sharks are just keeping their name in it to keep the price high and keep competing teams from making a move.
If DW is being reported by guys like Dreger and McKenzie as being a strong contender, he's trying to get Nash.

This is Doug Wilson, he wants Nash, he'll probably find a way to get him. It's what he does.

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02-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #269
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I'd rather give up more draft picks then send Pavs out in a package..

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02-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #270
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there is no point in arguing with some about how an elite two way forward is better than an elite one way forward.

carry on.

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02-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Pavelski, from what I've seen, doesn't require a ton of space to work in. He's sneaky like that. But besides that, IIRC Thornton has had the primary assist on only like 6 or 7 of Pavs 22 goals so far.
like i said, thornton takes the best defensemen away from pavs, he takes the best defensive forwards away from pavs.

pavs gets that little extra space on the ice because the other team needs to pay closer attention to thornton.

again stop looking at stats, they don't tell you the whole story of how pavs is on pace to basically destroy his career high in goals.

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02-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
thornton is 1 of only about a dozen players in the nhl that demands respect when he's on the ice, if teams didn't pay so much attention to him on the ice he would still be shredding the league apart with his passes.
And that's why you should want Nash. Thornton and Nash on a line together would be amazing. Two big bodies that are capable of creating opportunities and have already displayed that they have great chemistry together.

I'm a Columbus fan, but the Sharks are my #2 team and I get to about 5-8 games a year in San Jose (and every game they play here in Columbus). I'd love to see Nash on a good team.

I think you could pull it off without Couture or Pavelski being part of the deal ... but I would imagine that Vlasic would be a commodity that Howson would ask for (and we need). I know that will get just as many "No ********* Way" comments, but you have to think of what Nash would bring.

Columbus wants to get younger and there doesn't have to be a goalie coming back. Howson has stated he wants to build a young nucleus that can grow together.

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02-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #273
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It's funny how some people are still clueless about how Thornton's usage has completely changed under McLellan.

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02-22-2012, 01:49 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
like i said, thornton takes the best defensemen away from pavs, he takes the best defensive forwards away from pavs.

pavs gets that little extra space on the ice because the other team needs to pay closer attention to thornton.

again stop looking at stats, they don't tell you the whole story of how pavs is on pace to basically destroy his career high in goals.
i find it hard to believe that teams double up on thornton as a gameplan, its more of coaches watching for thornton to enter the ice and letting his players know so they are aware. i dont recall pavs ever having acres of ice to skate in or scoring easy goals. he gets in the right positions at the right times, its call hockey IQ. most of pavs goals come on tip ins or goal mouth scrambles etc...not sure how thornton taking away defensive forwards keeps pavs in the crease.

and he did the same with less last year anyway, so its a moot point.

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02-22-2012, 01:51 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by puckgoalnet View Post
And that's why you should want Nash. Thornton and Nash on a line together would be amazing. Two big bodies that are capable of creating opportunities and have already displayed that they have great chemistry together.

I'm a Columbus fan, but the Sharks are my #2 team and I get to about 5-8 games a year in San Jose (and every game they play here in Columbus). I'd love to see Nash on a good team.

I think you could pull it off without Couture or Pavelski being part of the deal ... but I would imagine that Vlasic would be a commodity that Howson would ask for (and we need). I know that will get just as many "No ********* Way" comments, but you have to think of what Nash would bring.

Columbus wants to get younger and there doesn't have to be a goalie coming back. Howson has stated he wants to build a young nucleus that can grow together.
I can see why Howson would want Vlasic but it's not going to happen.

If Wilson for some reason decides to make a move for Nash now it'll a) be a huge mistake and b) likely include a forward as the Sharks can't afford to move a top 4 d-man period.

There is nothing wrong with what Howson is asking for and he shouldn't settle for less, but he's going to have a really hard time getting the return he wants now, much better chance of it after the season's over.

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