HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Why LA Should Get Carter, Not Nash

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2012, 09:33 AM
  #26
Hatter
All about the Bob
 
Hatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ojai, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 2,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
I guess you haven't seen him play wing.
I've seen Jeff carter play, arguably, more than anyone n the kings board as I've watched damn near ever flyers game since the inception of center ice.

Hatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:34 AM
  #27
Hatter
All about the Bob
 
Hatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ojai, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 2,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
OK, bye.
Uh oh. Now you've done it.

Hatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:41 AM
  #28
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
Carter sucks at wingg. So, not really.
What? He scored over 30 goals as a winger. He is better used as a centre since he's a good face off guy but saying he sucks at wing is just wrong.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:00 AM
  #29
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,375
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
Uh oh. Now you've done it.
Should I keep my head on a swivel?

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:38 AM
  #30
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Should I keep my head on a swivel?
No worries, people are used to retarded trade suggestions by now. I guess you and Hatter haven't seen the trade suggestions yesterday or else you would have realized that there is nothing you can say to shock this forum.

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #31
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
I've hashed all this over before in another thread with what the facts were as far as Richards' value in the 2010 play-offs so I won't repeat it again except that, had the Flyers won the cup the Conn Smyth would have went to Richards or Briere; Leino was never in the equation. Lastly, except for Richards efforts in the Boston come-back the rest would have been moot which, in itself may have been worthy for the Smyth. The eventual winner (Toews) also didn't show well in the finals but was thought of enough to actually win the thing. In any case, Carter is not as good a fit as Nash- he's a center and neither he nor Richards plays as well on the wing.
I did also, I wrote like a 10 paragraph essay on it haha.

But you are completely wrong about Richards being the Flyers front runner for the Conn Smythe. This isn't even debatable it wasn't even remotely close, Chris Pronger favorite on almost everyones list for the Flyers. You cannot compare Richards to Toews ether. Toews didn't have a great Cup Finals but he was still much more productive then Richards and even with his slight fall off Toews had 29 points in 22 games which led the Hawks in points and was as productive as Briere's 30 points in 23 games. Plus down the stretch in the final 11 games of the postseason Mike Richards only posted 5 points (2g, 3a) only scoring in 3 of those 11 games and only in 1 game in the cup finals.

Link 1
http://*******************/articles/...ter-five-games

Link 2
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ythe-favorite/

Link 3
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tential-flyers

Link 4
http://espn.go.com/nhl/blog/_/name/n...ffs/id/5223024

Link 5
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=531300

I could keep listing but 5 should give us an accurate view. Notice Richards only mentioned strongly in Link 4 but Link 4 was before the Cup Finals and he was still behind Pronger. Reality is Richards had no shot at winning the Conn Smythe with how hard he fell off.

As far as you completely ignoring Leino shows how little you paid attention to that series, he was a frequently mentioned name as you even see in the articles.

As for the Bruins series yeah Richards played well but he didn't carry them past them. Outside of game 6 which Richards was huge in the biggest reason the Flyers won that series was Gagne returned in Game 4 and scored 4 in 4 against a Thomas-less Bruins team. It also didn't hurt that the Bruins lost there top point scorer and top goal scorer to injury.

I am not Richards bashing he is a good player but many people are overrating what he did and not giving credit to his teammates. The fact is Richards has never carried any team to a championship he was always a strong part but never the top guy. The only team he captained that won was Team Canada juniors. He has won at many levels but he also was lucky to fall onto many very jacked teams at each level. OHL, AHL, NHL, Internationals.

Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:03 AM
  #32
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
What? He scored over 30 goals as a winger. He is better used as a centre since he's a good face off guy but saying he sucks at wing is just wrong.
When did this happen? Carter never played wing for an entire season. Not even half a season. Heck not even quarter of a season. Every time Philly tried him at wing he bombed. By the end of his Philly career Carter was reduced to a line 3 center with 15 minutes of ice a game because Giroux was outplaying him at center. Briere was moved to wing on Giroux's line with Hartnell and Richards played with a variation of Versteeg, JVR, Leino, Zherdev, and occasionally Carcillo.

Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:07 AM
  #33
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,045
vCash: 500
I think we would be greedy to assume we could pick between getting JVR and Carter, or Nash.
I would love to take any of the three. With JVR's injury issues and the fact he really hasn't proven himself in the regular season I hope that we would get something else back if it were Johnson going to Philly.

Perro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:33 AM
  #34
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
When did this happen? Carter never played wing for an entire season. Not even half a season. Heck not even quarter of a season. Every time Philly tried him at wing he bombed. By the end of his Philly career Carter was reduced to a line 3 center with 15 minutes of ice a game because Giroux was outplaying him at center. Briere was moved to wing on Giroux's line with Hartnell and Richards played with a variation of Versteeg, JVR, Leino, Zherdev, and occasionally Carcillo.
Uh, maybe last season? Briere centred Leino and Hartnell, Roo centred Carter and mostly Zherdev and Richie got the dregs.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #35
moosehead81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Tebow View Post
I did also, I wrote like a 10 paragraph essay on it haha.

But you are completely wrong about Richards being the Flyers front runner for the Conn Smythe. This isn't even debatable it wasn't even remotely close, Chris Pronger favorite on almost everyones list for the Flyers. You cannot compare Richards to Toews ether. Toews didn't have a great Cup Finals but he was still much more productive then Richards and even with his slight fall off Toews had 29 points in 22 games which led the Hawks in points and was as productive as Briere's 30 points in 23 games. Plus down the stretch in the final 11 games of the postseason Mike Richards only posted 5 points (2g, 3a) only scoring in 3 of those 11 games and only in 1 game in the cup finals.

Link 1
http://*******************/articles/...ter-five-games

Link 2
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ythe-favorite/

Link 3
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tential-flyers

Link 4
http://espn.go.com/nhl/blog/_/name/n...ffs/id/5223024

Link 5
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=531300

I could keep listing but 5 should give us an accurate view. Notice Richards only mentioned strongly in Link 4 but Link 4 was before the Cup Finals and he was still behind Pronger. Reality is Richards had no shot at winning the Conn Smythe with how hard he fell off.

As far as you completely ignoring Leino shows how little you paid attention to that series, he was a frequently mentioned name as you even see in the articles.

As for the Bruins series yeah Richards played well but he didn't carry them past them. Outside of game 6 which Richards was huge in the biggest reason the Flyers won that series was Gagne returned in Game 4 and scored 4 in 4 against a Thomas-less Bruins team. It also didn't hurt that the Bruins lost there top point scorer and top goal scorer to injury.

I am not Richards bashing he is a good player but many people are overrating what he did and not giving credit to his teammates. The fact is Richards has never carried any team to a championship he was always a strong part but never the top guy. The only team he captained that won was Team Canada juniors. He has won at many levels but he also was lucky to fall onto many very jacked teams at each level. OHL, AHL, NHL, Internationals.
Unbelievable but everyone's entitled to their opinion and actually I did pay attention to the 2010 Flyer play-off run. I guess we'll just have to go over the facts again per your original observations:

"Mike Richards was the “worst” on-ice skater for the Flyers in the 2010 SCF finals; the absolute “worst” on the 19 man roster. A description of a Selke finalist, a player who, in just about everyone’s’ mind, plays extremely well in the defensive zone, yet skates well enough to get back into the offensive zone to score 60-80 points a season and still is one of the best PK specialists in the league. If he keeps doing that, he can wear bed-room slippers on the ice for all I care. If he was the “worst” skater for the Flyers, the Flyers would have won the final series in 4 games against the Blackhawks, no problem.

Did Team Canada need Richards- yah Canada could probably place two teams in the Olympics that would each do very well and perhaps for this country, winning gold is nothing amazing. But realistically we’re talking about a player who played for two world junior team Canada’s, winning one gold medal with a team he captained and coming within one goal of another. On the Olympic gold medal team, he played with Nash and Toews, probably the team’s most effective line, with Toews winning the tournament MVP while scoring the first and only goal for Canada in the final in straight time, assisted by Richards. Don’t think Crosby played all that great in the tournament (he admitted so later), except for the golden goal, so I expect Team Canada could probably have done as well without him also.

Did the Phantoms need Richards in their 2005 Calder Cup win- probably not but let’s remember that Richards came to the Phantoms off three OHL series, the last against London which won the Memorial Cup, during which he scored 28 points in 15 games. He came to the Phantoms and scored 15 points in 14 play-off games, second on the team, I believe, next to Carter’s 23 in 21 games. Sure, maybe the Phantoms win without Richards but could you guarantee that?

Kitchener Rangers won the 2003 Memorial Cup when Derek Roy was captain- very true but you neglect to mention that Richards was the team’s leading scorer that year and was also a Memorial Cup Tournament All-Star. The Rangers may not have even got by the Plymouth Whalers that year, except for Richards’ game winning goal in the 7th and deciding game. Richards went on to captain the Rangers for 2 years and to this day, remains one of their best liked players.

Correction 2- Really!- The Devils with 103 points, were seen as underdogs against a Flyer team that came within a shoot-out goal of missing the play-offs, had only 88 points and were trying to establish a new high tempo system under a coach brought in about a third of the way thru the season. The Flyers actually tied with Montreal for 7th place but got the 7th seed because Montreal won more games with the shoot-out. My recollection is that the Devils were favoured in 6, maybe 7 games, Flyers goal-tending being very suspect at the time.

Correction 3- Not a close series but you forget that Richards assisted on the first goal and scored the game winner in a narrow 2-1 win in the first game. Then tied at one game apiece, game three was won by Philadelphia on an O/T goal assisted by Richards. NJ wins that game (or the first game) and the series maybe goes the other way.

Corrections 4 and 5- Simon Gagne returns and plays a key part in the 4 game, 3 goal comeback against the Bruins. True enough but again, beyond the hit delivered by Richards on Krejci which seemed to turn series momentum, Gagne scores the must win O/T game winning goal in game 4 with an assist by Richards, Richards scores the first goal and assists on the GW goal in a 2-1 Philly win in game 6 and Richards assists on the fourth GW Philly goal in game 7. As for goal-tending between Rask and Thomas, who can forget the never-ending goaltending issues faced by the Flyers when Leighton was brought in halfway thru game 5. It all balances out in the end. Gagne certainly was a big part of the comeback but Richards easily had the most to say about the final out-come and, had the Bruins prevailed, all that followed would have been moot.

The Habs Series- Flyers didn’t win the series 5-1 but did win in a 5 game series. The stars and moon aligned for the Flyers when the Canadiens upset both Washington and Pittsburgh but if Richards doesn’t have the absolutely great game he had in the deciding game 5 (who can forget the short-handed “shift” which essentially broke their backs while adding a goal and 2 assists), Montreal wins, Halak gets hot again and it’s maybe a different out-come.

Corrections 6-8- still a team sport where all the assets need to be clicking together for success. Team leadership is not determined by an individual and I’m sure that players like Briere, Timmonen and Pronger all added their qualities to those of Richards. Would the Flyers have been as successful had any one of those been missing in action?- maybe and maybe not. However I do re-call Danny Briere and others indicating that as the play-offs went on, they all tried to follow the example set by Richards, shift thru shift. Most good leaders lead by quiet example and I put Richards up with Toews, Stall and a host of others in that list.

Correction 9- Both Toews and Richards played tired in the final series, both having played well during the Olympic tournament. The Chicago series went to O/T in two games; they’re still looking for the winning goal in game 6. Four of the six games were decided by one goal and a few bounces the Flyers’ way may have resulted in a different outcome. Had the Flyers won, the Conn Smyth would have went to Briere or Richards; Leino wasn’t even in the equation.

When hockey players, scouts and managers talk of Mike Richards as being a strong two way player who plays both ends of the ice with passion, is hard to play against and can chip in 60-80 points; those are the experts whose opinions one should listen to. The level of disrespect for Richards shown by some Flyers/Kings fans and a few Philadelphia media types are beyond belief and almost libellous. Every hockey person who has played with or been on the management side of teams Richards has been associated with has had nothing but good things to say about him and the level of success those teams enjoy, a large part of which can be attributed to his play. IMO Paul Holmgren had no desire to shop Richards before trading him- that for sure came from Ed Snider. So let’s slow down on the rhetoric; as I’ve said before, I hope that Simmonds and Schenn turn out to be great players but come back and talk after they turn 25 years of age and see where they’ve led their teams by then".

Have fun!

moosehead81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #36
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
Kings fans want the Goldilocks players. Just enough character, just enough skill and just the right cap hit. Well good luck on that!

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:59 AM
  #37
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
The Carter contract is overrated. He'll be 36 entering the final yr of his contract. And even if he starts declining at 34-35, stuff him in the minors at a salary which may not even seem that high in 10 years.
Yeah this. Carter makes $3 million, $2 million, $2 million in the final three years of his contract. Like I said earlier, even if he falls off in the final years of his deal, he'll at the very worst be of use to a team needing to get to the cap floor without spending a lot of real dollars (see NYI).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
What? He scored over 30 goals as a winger. He is better used as a centre since he's a good face off guy but saying he sucks at wing is just wrong.
This. All most Kings fans can do is google a player, see he's listed on some hockey websites as a centre and immediately jump to the thought "do not want, need winger."

There's been plenty of examples of forwards becoming defnsemen or defensemen becoming forwards and doing very well at it. But Carter can't move from center to the wing, arguably the easiest position switch to make in hockey? He's done it once before and managed 30+ goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Kings fans want the Goldilocks players. Just enough character, just enough skill and just the right cap hit. Well good luck on that!
Doesn't every fanbase want that? Is there a fanbase out their clamouring for the opposite of that? Of course we want that, who wouldn't? But at the end of the day, does it really matter what we want, or what the Kings management wants?

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #38
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
The cap hit is good, but the length isn't. There's a difference.

the length is the downside to Carter's contract, but the annual is very workable for a GM. $5.3M per season over the life of the contract and actually scales down in cost to $2M the last season. same neighborhood as JJ's 'friendly' contract currently. hard to say what will happen in 5+ years with the CBA, so no one can really speculate how the $$ will impact the cap that far down the road....or even where the cap will be at that point.
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=740

on the flip side Nash's contract scales up to $8.0M and $8.2M his last two seasons (2016 & 2017), but remains at a $7.8M cap hit per season.
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=586

the $3.5M difference per season adds a good salary for #3-#4 wing with good numbers...hell of an upgrade over what the team has now.

i would make the move to go for Carter over Nash personally. LA doesn't have the personnel to get both, let alone the cap room. take the lower cap and a few more years (that likely can be buried when he's 35) and move on.

BUT make this trade during the summer, when they don't have to pay a ransom for him at the deadline. can get much better value over the summer.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:12 PM
  #39
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Doesn't every fanbase want that? Is there a fanbase out their clamouring for the opposite of that? Of course we want that, who wouldn't? But at the end of the day, does it really matter what we want, or what the Kings management wants?
Nothing that anyone says on here means anything at all. We're all a bunch of idiots. But some of us idiots are so picky as to what we want to see happen that they'll be waiting a looong time trying to acquire these perfect players. I just want to the team to get better. If that means the Kings lose a dman or two and acquire Rick Nash and/or Jeff Carter, I'm for it. I personally don't have a problem with trading for either of them unless it results in a negative return. I don't see a problem with either contract. If you don't spend $7.8m or $5.whateverMillion, you are going to spend it on another player of that caliber. If the Kings can't afford Rick Nash or Jeff Carter under the CAP, they can't afford Zach Parise or anyone else and we need to start cutting salary. The bottom line is they CAN afford either player under the cap and since the Kings have zero chance at signing UFA's, they are better off trading for players. Beggars can't be choosers. Time to pony up or bend over and take it.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
  #40
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Moosehead, I will respond to that when I get the free time since it's lengthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Uh, maybe last season? Briere centred Leino and Hartnell, Roo centred Carter and mostly Zherdev and Richie got the dregs.
Giroux was drafted a Right Winger and brought up through the QMJHL on the Gatineau Olympiques as a Right Winger, then on the AHL Phantoms as a Right Winger, and started his NHL career as a Right Winger. When Carter was hurt in the playoffs during the Cup run Giroux was moved to Center for the remainder of the playoffs. Giroux was then returned to Right Wing to start the 2010-2011 season. When Carter and Giroux played together Carter played center. Carter has specifically complained about playing the wing in the past saying though he will play wing if asked he strongly prefers to play center (you may remember long ago this bumped Umberger to line 4 because neither wanted to play wing). Because of this when players like Giroux and Briere who have a history at RW play with him they take the wing.
Plus as mentioned Giroux and Briere were moved to the same line later in the season. You may remember the Bromance and Bill Clement always feeling the need to remind us how they were roommates, linemates, and lived together.

Check Carter's ice time in 2010-2011. His season ATOI was 18:15 (the 2nd lowest total in his entire career only to his rookie season). His playoff ATOI was 15:15 also very low. If you look at his actual game logs you will see his ice time basically starts off very high but tails off lower and lower as the season goes.

If Carter was such a great winger why would the Flyers put him on line 3 and cut his ice time when they could easily put him on the Briere/Giroux line or the Richards/Versteeg line? Keep in mind JVR, Leino, Zherdev, and Hartnell all ended up in the doghouse that season too. It's not like any had secure jobs.

Carter may have scored a few of his goals that season as a winger but he certainly did not have 30 goals playing wing because he didn't play wing more then 10-15 games tops that season.

Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #41
Seventyx7
Carter Enthusiast
 
Seventyx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norcal
Country: United States
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
Thank you for the very specific info, Tebow.

Just reinforcing what I already believed. It shouldn't just be assumed the guy can be as good on the wing as he as at center; not even taking into account the fact he won't be happy doing it.

Just one of many reasons not to get Carter.

Seventyx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #42
Kingurentai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonnaneedsomewine View Post
Rather than give up Bernier and Johnson in one deal for the "superstar" winger in Nash, who may fail to live up to expectations and clog up your cap a little more, it's better to trade them in separate deals and get two very good wingers albeit not "elite" players by trading Bernier in a deal for Carter and Johnson in a deal for JVR.
I agree with the logic. I'm also usually about keeping some room to move as far as cap goes, as rarely does one player solve all problems and tweeking will be needed.

But....

We haven't had a legit elite winger in a long time. I think we need to roll the dice here IF Nash wants to come here. I'm reading conflicting reports on that. If he doesn't want to be here, then definitely go with Carter or whoever. I don't want anyone here who doesn't want to be here. Don't care if they're on the 1st or 4th line.

Long story short, I agree with the logic; but I think we need to take logic-defying risk at this point.

Kingurentai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #43
Tim Tebow
Registered User
 
Tim Tebow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Westeros
Country: United States
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
Thank you for the very specific info, Tebow.

Just reinforcing what I already believed. It shouldn't just be assumed the guy can be as good on the wing as he as at center; not even taking into account the fact he won't be happy doing it.

Just one of many reasons not to get Carter.
It is a weird phenomenon, Jordan Staal is the same story. Pittsburgh tried him as a LW to Crosby and Malkin years ago when the Penguins were very shallow on the wings but Staal never produced. Not sure if anyone cares about basketball but it reminds me of how certain players are strong dribbles with the right hand and have a great planting foot on the right but if defended aggressively and pushed to the left side they can struggle when forced to use the left hand and foot dominantly.

This is just my personal opinion on why Carter is better at center based on watching him. Carter only scores 2 kinds of goals. The majority are wrist shots and the rest are backhands. You may see Carter score on a 1-timer or slap shot maybe once a season. He simply does not have a big time slap shot when it comes to power or accuracy. Majority of the time Carter will catch a pass on his stick, look up, aim, and fire a wrist shot. Usually giving the goalie a chance to position himself. While Carter has a great wrist shot that actually beats a lot of well positioned goalies I am assuming that his lack of 1-time slap shots does him in as a winger because his shots are usually from tougher angles and his delay to set himself really favors the goalie from the angles.

Jeff Carter simply doesn't seem to benefit from a playmaker. His best NHL season he scored 84 points and 46 goals he played with Scott Hartnell a power forward and Joffrey Lupul another sniper. A season where Giroux was not relevant, Briere missed about 70% of the season, and Richards played the entire year with Gagne and Knuble.

Carter may not be bad for the Kings but given his history I would be hesitant to grab such a long term investment to play a position he has been iffy at.

Tim Tebow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #44
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
So people aren't fans of Richards and Carter on the wing. How about Kopitar moves to the wing? We haven't seen that. And don't give me "he is great defensively". This team doesn't need defense, we need offense. From all accounts, Carter and Richards are good or at least adequate defensively.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:51 PM
  #45
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,375
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
So if CBus wanted Brown & Kopitar for Nash & Carter would you do it? Would it take more to get Nash & Carter? Less? I'll take your answers off the air.

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:03 PM
  #46
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, Nv.
Country: United States
Posts: 26,149
vCash: 3578
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So if CBus wanted Brown & Kopitar for Nash & Carter would you do it? Would it take more to get Nash & Carter? Less? I'll take your answers off the air.
Absolutely no way. Kopitar is the most valuable player and losing Brown hurts us enormously and would, again, leave us with a hole on the wing.

__________________

"I think part of his game is he’s over aggressive at times, which I like. We’ll tame that. I’d rather tame a lion than paint stripes on the kitty cat." - Dean Lombardi discussing Brayden McNabb
Telos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:11 PM
  #47
Seventyx7
Carter Enthusiast
 
Seventyx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norcal
Country: United States
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So if CBus wanted Brown & Kopitar for Nash & Carter would you do it? Would it take more to get Nash & Carter? Less? I'll take your answers off the air.
I wouldn't trade Kopitar for Nash, and I wouldn't trade Brown for Carter.

Seventyx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:16 PM
  #48
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,742
vCash: 500
The chances the Kings get one of these guys is small. The chances they can get both Carter and JVR is silly. Fun to talk about, but lets get real here.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #49
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Absolutely no way. Kopitar is the most valuable player and losing Brown hurts us enormously and would, again, leave us with a hole on the wing.
Nash>Brown
Carter<Kopitar? I put a question mark because I'm not even sure that is true at this point.

I hate the thought of Kopitar on any other team but I want the Kings to win a friggin playoff round and maybe one day, just one day, a Stanley Cup. Is Kopitar the #1 center that will get the team there? Maybe if Sutter or another coach brings it out of him but the way he is going on his own or under TM, I don't think so. He is too aloof at times. Too many passengers on this team. I'm not saying that trading Kopitar and Brown for Carter and Nash is the right move but it is worth discussing. There is a reason the Kings are in the position they are in and it is largely because the "core" is underachieving big time or are they? Maybe the last 3 seasons is what they are capable of.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:39 PM
  #50
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Nash>Brown
Carter<Kopitar? I put a question mark because I'm not even sure that is true at this point.

I hate the thought of Kopitar on any other team but I want the Kings to win a friggin playoff round and maybe one day, just one day, a Stanley Cup. Is Kopitar the #1 center that will get the team there? Maybe if Sutter or another coach brings it out of him but the way he is going on his own or under TM, I don't think so. He is too aloof at times. Too many passengers on this team. I'm not saying that trading Kopitar and Brown for Carter and Nash is the right move but it is worth discussing. There is a reason the Kings are in the position they are in and it is largely because the "core" is underachieving big time or are they? Maybe the last 3 seasons is what they are capable of.
It's worth discussing but if we're talking about hoisting a cup I am certain Nash and carter are not the guys that are going to spearhead that accomplishment. Nash is a good defender when he has no choice to defend, but when he was put in that situation his points suffered Kopitar is a plus player in all three zones and is without a doubt the best player in the deal. Carter has been considered a question mark, and when he has not been called out for his partying he's been called out for not trying to get back from injury (current knock on him in Columbus). When he's on the ice he's been called a selfish and foolish player with the puck. The latter doesn't really scare me because the Kings need that but the current regime hates it. Brown is the kind of guy that wins you a cup via hard play, sacraficing the body, good chemistry and scoring touch. he's just miscast as a first line guy.

I would not take the trade, but like you said, the trdae isn't absurd.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.