HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kyle Cliffords Hit on Brule-Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2012, 04:42 AM
  #1
kingsfan28
Viva Los Cucarachas!
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 11,499
vCash: 500
Kyle Cliffords Hit on Brule-Video

Here's the full version of the hit:


kingsfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 08:51 AM
  #2
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Thanks kf28. Anyone claiming the hit was egregiously late should pay attention to the game clock. The clock is on 6:24 when Brule releases the puck. The clock is still on 6:24 when Clifford initiates contact, and only after Clifford is well into following through with his hit does the clock turn to 6:23. That's a normal hockey play. Brule was just caught admiring his pass which made it look worse since he wasn't braced for contact.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 08:53 AM
  #3
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,408
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Thanks kf28. Anyone claiming the hit was egregiously late should pay attention to the game clock. The clock is on 6:24 when Brule releases the puck. The clock is still on 6:24 when Clifford initiates contact, and only after Clifford is well into following through with his hit does the clock turn to 6:23. That's a normal hockey play. Brule was just caught admiring his pass which made it look worse since he wasn't braced for contact.
That's a pretty clear suspension, IMO. I guess we'll find out who's right when Brendan Shanahan pops up. Remember-the clock isn't always right, Lombardi can bend time.

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #4
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
That's a pretty clear suspension, IMO. I guess we'll find out who's right when Brendan Shanahan pops up. Remember-the clock isn't always right, Lombardi can bend time.
What's suspendable about it? There's no contact to the head. It's a shoulder on shoulder hit. You can debate about the lateness, but it was borderline late, if anything. The only reason it looked so bad was because Brule was standing up straight not braced for contact. If he was prepared, his body would not have been jelly like that.

And if you don't want to believe the game clock, watch the YouTube counter. It goes from 0:01 to 0:02 throughout the entire incident.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:01 AM
  #5
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,166
vCash: 500
Clifford had enough time to change his course. We'd all be furious if that was Kopi who got hit.

Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:03 AM
  #6
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Clifford had enough time to change his course. We'd all be furious if that was Kopi who got hit.
How was Clifford expected to realize in several tenths of a second that Brule would not be prepared for contact? Was he supposed to glean that through osmosis?

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:04 AM
  #7
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Clifford had enough time to change his course. We'd all be furious if that was Kopi who got hit.
And by the way, I wasn't mad at all when Kopitar was demolished by Morrow because he was caught admiring his pass.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:05 AM
  #8
Cook24
Registered User
 
Cook24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chino, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,018
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Cook24
Come on guys this is hockey. That's a clean hit.

Cook24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:08 AM
  #9
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Come on guys this is hockey. That's a clean hit.
Exactly. If you're not going to be prepared for physical contact, don't step on the ice.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:08 AM
  #10
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,408
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Come on guys this is hockey. That's a clean hit.
Not under the current rules. Brule is looking ahead, making him defenseless according to the new rules and Clifford comes from the blind side and hits him. Like I said, we'll find out soon enough. If you're allowed to clean out guys like that then I don't know or understand the new rules. Hi, I'm Brendan Shanahan...

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:10 AM
  #11
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
And by the way, I wasn't mad at all when Kopitar was demolished by Morrow because he was caught admiring his pass.
You would have been if he was knocked out of the game.

That entire replay shows Clifford looking to demolish a guy who didn't see him coming. Here is where we are different. I don't think it OK to finish a check like that. I think it is dirty. Some people get off on plays like that, Lord knows I have played against enough ***** like that. Its a fundamental philosophy difference. Play the game with some honor. Finish your checks when needed its part of the game, but ease up on guy who is vulnerable.

Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:14 AM
  #12
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 6,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
You would have been if he was knocked out of the game.

That entire replay shows Clifford looking to demolish a guy who didn't see him coming. Here is where we are different. I don't think it OK to finish a check like that. I think it is dirty. Some people get off on plays like that, Lord knows I have played against enough ***** like that. Its a fundamental philosophy difference. Play the game with some honor. Finish your checks when needed its part of the game, but ease up on guy who is vulnerable.
Brule was vulnerable because he put himself in that position! The FUNDAMENTAL rule of checking hockey is to not admire your pass. Brule did not follow that rule.

And by the way, Kopitar was knocked out of the game and I still wasn't mad about the hit because Kopitar was caught admiring his pass.

Chazz Reinhold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:19 AM
  #13
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Brule was vulnerable because he put himself in that position! The FUNDAMENTAL rule of checking hockey is to not admire your pass. Brule did not follow that rule.

And by the way, Kopitar was knocked out of the game and I still wasn't mad about the hit because Kopitar was caught admiring his pass.
Kopi missed one game, hopefully Brule will too.

By the way I was furious about that hit.

Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:25 AM
  #14
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Brule was vulnerable because he put himself in that position! The FUNDAMENTAL rule of checking hockey is to not admire your pass. Brule did not follow that rule.

And by the way, Kopitar was knocked out of the game and I still wasn't mad about the hit because Kopitar was caught admiring his pass.
Exactly. Clifford did everything right:

- did not leave his skates
- did not target the head
- did not hit from behind, in fact he hit in front of the shoulder on the jersey logo
- well within "continuation" of play i.e. not a late hit. Watch the hit at game speed, not slow motion. The check is obviously within limited time of Brule passing (admiring) the puck.

Butch 19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
  #15
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
You would have been if he was knocked out of the game.

That entire replay shows Clifford looking to demolish a guy who didn't see him coming. Here is where we are different. I don't think it OK to finish a check like that. I think it is dirty. Some people get off on plays like that, Lord knows I have played against enough ***** like that. Its a fundamental philosophy difference. Play the game with some honor. Finish your checks when needed its part of the game, but ease up on guy who is vulnerable.
So, what if the checkee turns his head away from the checker before impact? Still a penalty? What if he never looks for for opposing players?

Essentially you are saying players don't have to pay attention to the other team - even when they have the puck.

Doesn't the puck carrier have some responsibility of realizing where he is on the ice and where the opposing team is??

Players expecting this type of check will brace for it (or try to check back), and skate away many times in every game.

Butch 19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #16
Pucknut50
Registered User
 
Pucknut50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
Clifford had enough time to change his course. We'd all be furious if that was Kopi who got hit.
But the reason we would be furious would be due to the fact no penalty would have been called! Morrow hit Kopi when he was looking at his pass and he got smashed into the boards. Only difference is Clifford hit a girl.

Pucknut50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:05 AM
  #17
Kingurentai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 569
vCash: 500
With the way some were talking, I thought Brule got Kronwalled or something.

Interference or roughing imo.

Kingurentai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
  #18
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 250
[QUOTE=Pucknut50;44638211]But the reason we would be furious would be due to the fact no penalty would have been called! Morrow hit Kopi when he was looking at his pass and he got smashed into the boards. Only difference is Clifford hit a girl.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Clearly punishing the result rather than the hit.

I brought it up somewhere else, but while I'm upset about HOW the call was made, I'm even MORE disgusted about how you can clearly watch the ref team check the replay on the overhead. Bush league. That has to be a huge problem.

Edit: someone mentioned that majors are reviewable (in-game)? If that's true, ugh.

Brad Doty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:34 AM
  #19
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,365
vCash: 500
the contact was clean and legal. elbow, stick and forearm are all down. the shoulder to the head, is merely due to size difference you can't penalize a guy for that.

what wasn't clean is the timing and the direction of the hit. 0.2-0.3 seconds after Brule passed the puck. total grey area when it comes to contact, which is one reason this will always bring a debate. big red came from a blindspot, since Creme Brule was looking up ice and didn't see the hit. this is somehting the league and Shanny are looking to change when it comes to the culture.

the call could have gone either way, because it is such a 'grey area'. like others said if the situation was reveresed LA fans would be calling for a suspension.

r torres has been penalized and suspended for hits just like this. he is notorious for hitting guys by coming into them from a blindspot.

i dont expect Clifford to get suspended for this, since he doesn't have a history of similar hits.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #20
Willard
Kings All The Way
 
Willard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Just Off Highway 1
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
With the way some were talking, I thought Brule got Kronwalled or something.

Interference or roughing imo.
Yeah, at the most. You can't even call it charging, Clifford didn't leave his feet.

Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:08 PM
  #21
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Thanks kf28. Anyone claiming the hit was egregiously late should pay attention to the game clock. The clock is on 6:24 when Brule releases the puck. The clock is still on 6:24 when Clifford initiates contact, and only after Clifford is well into following through with his hit does the clock turn to 6:23. That's a normal hockey play. Brule was just caught admiring his pass which made it look worse since he wasn't braced for contact.
How many coulombs DL has stockpiled will dictate if this is a suspension or not.

Seriously though, I'm somewhat surprised that's even a penalty. When I read the game report last night (didn't get a chance to watch it) I seen Clifford for head-butting. How is this a head-butt? Not only that, there's no contact to the head at all, and he doesn't leave his feet. If you want to hand him a rouging call or something, while I don't agree with it, I could have understood that. But a 5 minute major on that?

While the Kings should have had the game wrapped up anyways, that call still cost us not only one point, but it gave Phoenix two points in the standings in what is the tightest race in the elague. That could have MASSIVE playoff ramifications. I'm pretty pissed about that call really. Like I said, I don't think it's even a penalty personally, but I could understand a two minute minor. Five minutes? Who forgot to blow the refs last night?

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #22
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,027
vCash: 500
Another thing, where is the ref when the hit is made? In the video he is neither in the Coyotes zone or neutral ice, so he determined that was a head hit from likely middle of the Kings zone? That's about 80 feet away to determine if a Clifford made deliberate contact to the head. How could he even see he made head contact?

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
  #23
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
the contact was clean and legal. elbow, stick and forearm are all down. the shoulder to the head, is merely due to size difference you can't penalize a guy for that.

what wasn't clean is the timing and the direction of the hit. 0.2-0.3 seconds after Brule passed the puck. total grey area when it comes to contact, which is one reason this will always bring a debate. big red came from a blindspot, since Creme Brule was looking up ice and didn't see the hit. this is somehting the league and Shanny are looking to change when it comes to the culture.

the call could have gone either way, because it is such a 'grey area'. like others said if the situation was reveresed LA fans would be calling for a suspension.

r torres has been penalized and suspended for hits just like this. he is notorious for hitting guys by coming into them from a blindspot.

i dont expect Clifford to get suspended for this, since he doesn't have a history of similar hits.
The "gray area" is a good point. I can see maaaaybe a 2 minute penalty / matching minor from Phx - ESPECIALLY since there was NO initial call from either ref. It was in NO way an "attempt to injure."

If Phx didn't immediately go after Clifford, would this have even been a penalty?!?!? Probably not.
This encourages teams to go after any opposing player that checked one of their guys hard. Is that what we want? I don't, the NHL apparently does.

As far as .2 - .3 seconds after the pass, watch it at game speed - the check was well within legal time for a check.

Butch 19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:40 PM
  #24
Willard
Kings All The Way
 
Willard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Just Off Highway 1
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
No suspension, according to Hammond. Sorry Brule got whiplash but this is the right call by the league.

Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #25
Seventyx7
Carter Enthusiast
 
Seventyx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norcal
Country: United States
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
5 minute major for hitting too hard and getting jumped. Costs us essentially 3 points. What a joke.

Seventyx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.