HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kyle Cliffords Hit on Brule-Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2012, 02:14 PM
  #26
Shellz
Registered User
 
Shellz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 17,313
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard View Post
No suspension, according to Hammond. Sorry Brule got whiplash but this is the right call by the league.
Yep.

Shellz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:28 PM
  #27
Knight of the Realm
Champs Again!
 
Knight of the Realm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Westeros
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,170
vCash: 500
This is the last I will say on this topic.

I believe the hit was dirty, not elbow to the head dirty but late. I believe Clifford could have let up. I think he came out of the box pissed and that had a factor in the hit. Take a look at the whole shift.

I think the league is sending an inconsistent message here with blindside hits, which is something they have made a big deal about all year.

Knight of the Realm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:29 PM
  #28
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
The "gray area" is a good point. I can see maaaaybe a 2 minute penalty / matching minor from Phx - ESPECIALLY since there was NO initial call from either ref. It was in NO way an "attempt to injure."

If Phx didn't immediately go after Clifford, would this have even been a penalty?!?!? Probably not.
This encourages teams to go after any opposing player that checked one of their guys hard. Is that what we want? I don't, the NHL apparently does.

As far as .2 - .3 seconds after the pass, watch it at game speed - the check was well within legal time for a check.

at game speed even you can tell. ive been there (on both ends of hits like this). these guys can turn and stop on a dime with their ability. they can skate better than i ever could at their age, but i could have turned off that hit, slowed down or grabbed him as i went into him. guys make decisions that fast out there for the entire game, this is just an example of Cliffy not pulling up on a hit.

i didn't think it warranted a suspension and it shouldn't. it should at most have been 2-minutes for either interference, roughing or charging. yes charging, you can still be called for it under this circumstance. 'leaving your feet' isnt the absolute when it comes to charging calls. they can call you for it, if they feel you went out of way to initiate contact from a distance and kept skating at full speed.

Whiskeypete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:44 PM
  #29
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
Thank you. Clearly punishing the result rather than the hit.

I brought it up somewhere else, but while I'm upset about HOW the call was made, I'm even MORE disgusted about how you can clearly watch the ref team check the replay on the overhead. Bush league. That has to be a huge problem.

Edit: someone mentioned that majors are reviewable (in-game)? If that's true, ugh.
Agree 100%. I'm indifferent to whether or not the hit was a penalty but to see the refs assemble after the play and look up to the board as if they used that to make their call, that is BS. From what I understand, a major is reviewable with other refs/linesman but not in the booth. I believe what supposedly happened was either the other ref or a linesman made the call when they discussed the situation after the play. But to look up to the video replay even just for affirmation is pretty tacky.

That being said, I didn't think it was a good call but I also thought it was poor judgement on Clifford's part. That was completely unnecessary at that point in the game. The Kings have themselves to blame for the loss. They blew a 3 goal lead and allowed 3 (4?) power play goals which is something they haven't done for a while, if at all this season. Clifford's poor decision at the end of the game was just icing on the cake to a train wreck of a game.

I also didn't think the hit was blindside or a hit to the head. It looks like he is coming head on and it was shoulder on shoulder contact with a whiplash type after effect. The only thing remotely debatable to me is the timing and even though less than a second ticked off on the clock, Clifford did have plenty of time to avoid making contact. If the guy got up and skated away without incident, there is no penalty.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:45 PM
  #30
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
That's a pretty clear suspension, IMO. I guess we'll find out who's right when Brendan Shanahan pops up. Remember-the clock isn't always right, Lombardi can bend time.
The fact that he got booted from the game should be enough to prevent a suspension, IMHO.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 02:48 PM
  #31
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy the Elf
The only thing remotely debatable to me is the timing and even though less than a second ticked off on the clock, Clifford did have plenty of time to avoid making contact.
At the time of the hit, Brule was fair game.

If you are a player like Clifford, who plays with an edge, would you expect him to let up on a player who is fair game? SHOULD Clifford let up on that hit if he has time to avoid it?

I absolutely think he should follow through with that hit.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 03:03 PM
  #32
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
At the time of the hit, Brule was fair game.

If you are a player like Clifford, who plays with an edge, would you expect him to let up on a player who is fair game? SHOULD Clifford let up on that hit if he has time to avoid it?

I absolutely think he should follow through with that hit.
Like I said, I'm indifferent to it. My immediate reaction is that it was a clean hit but some of the stuff I've seen called or not called this season has really left me scratching my head so I'm not even sure what a clean hit is anymore. Basically, I feel like if somebody gets hurts the on ice officials feel the need to address it right away and then it gets even more scrutiny by the Shananhan police.

I don't blame Clifford for the loss. The Kings did that on their own. I wouldn't expect Clifford to back down from making hits but I guess I would have liked the Kings to see win the game and had Clifford just come off the ice after dumping the puck right before that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 04:04 PM
  #33
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
at game speed even you can tell. ive been there (on both ends of hits like this). these guys can turn and stop on a dime with their ability. they can skate better than i ever could at their age, but i could have turned off that hit, slowed down or grabbed him as i went into him.
You're right, you likely could have. That is based on the review of the play, knowing the guy is going to make a pass.

Think about it from Cliffy's angle. Until he KNOWS Brule let go of the puck, he is going to keep coming. If he turns away thinking Brule's about to pass it, then Brule doesn't, all that did was give Brule a few extra seconds with the puck and likely pissed off Sutter. He doesn't have any requirement or need to let up until he can see Brule has let go of the puck.

I don't think he could have turned out of the way after recoginzing Brule has actually moved the puck. That's based on my experience playing the game as well. You might be right, but I don't agree with your view.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 04:17 PM
  #34
kingsfan28
Viva Los Cucarachas!
 
kingsfan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 12,157
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Another thing, where is the ref when the hit is made? In the video he is neither in the Coyotes zone or neutral ice, so he determined that was a head hit from likely middle of the Kings zone? That's about 80 feet away to determine if a Clifford made deliberate contact to the head. How could he even see he made head contact?
I dont now either.The call was apparently made by the linesman on the far side of the rink after the play was over.3 of the four officials didnt see it and went by what he claimed he saw.

kingsfan28 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 04:28 PM
  #35
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan28 View Post
I dont now either.The call was apparently made by the linesman on the far side of the rink after the play was over.3 of the four officials didnt see it and went by what he claimed he saw.
Wouldn't it be cool if next time the Kings get burned on a (no-)goal "tipped in with a high stick" the refs and linesmen get together and ask each other what they think. Or maybe they can even look at the replay screen before they call TO?

That'd be cool.

There was a ref skating maybe 15 - 20 feet behind the play - he's in one of the YTs out there. Like Fox said: "there was no penalty being called."

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:00 PM
  #36
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
t then I don't know or understand the new rules.
That much is clear.

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 10:09 PM
  #37
Defgarden
Registered User
 
Defgarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Loma Linda, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
The hit was a slightly dirty one, though not intentional at all. The combination of the slight lateness, the angle at which he was coming, and Brule's position on the ice (a few feet away from the boards). Clifford had enough time to let up, and he should have known better.

Of course, every player has an obligation to be aware of his surroundings, so I certainly don't think it should be a suspension, nor do I think it was major penalty worthy. The call was definitely reactionary.

Defgarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2012, 12:19 AM
  #38
savemefromtears
Bravo Viva la France
 
savemefromtears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: City of Angels
Country: United States
Posts: 1,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
That entire replay shows Clifford looking to demolish a guy who didn't see him coming. Here is where we are different. I don't think it OK to finish a check like that. I think it is dirty. Some people get off on plays like that, Lord knows I have played against enough ***** like that. Its a fundamental philosophy difference. Play the game with some honor. Finish your checks when needed its part of the game, but ease up on guy who is vulnerable.
The hit on Kariya by Scott Stevens says hi.


savemefromtears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2012, 04:44 AM
  #39
FootKnight
This ****ing team
 
FootKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Not under the current rules. Brule is looking ahead, making him defenseless according to the new rules and Clifford comes from the blind side and hits him. Like I said, we'll find out soon enough. If you're allowed to clean out guys like that then I don't know or understand the new rules. Hi, I'm Brendan Shanahan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
I believe the hit was dirty, not elbow to the head dirty but late. I believe Clifford could have let up. I think he came out of the box pissed and that had a factor in the hit. Take a look at the whole shift.

I think the league is sending an inconsistent message here with blindside hits, which is something they have made a big deal about all year.
Why do people keep talking about "blindside?" That got removed from the rulebook. The new Rule 48 is:

Quote:
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.
The only rule that deals with hitting unaware players is checking from behind (rule 43), which requires contact to be made with the back.

Quote:
43.1 Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.
And "defenseless" is in the boarding rule (41).
Quote:
41.1 Boarding – A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.
What was the penalty called anyway? The boxscore only says "match penalty," not what the actual penalty was for.

FootKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2012, 09:13 AM
  #40
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
What was the penalty called anyway? The boxscore only says "match penalty," not what the actual penalty was for.
I was following along on the TSN live updates during the game, sicne I didn't have the game on TV. The live update had the penalty listed as a 5 minute major for headbutting. They've since changed it to a 10 minute match penalty, but it was original listed on TSN as a headbutt of all things.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2012, 09:15 AM
  #41
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,371
vCash: 500
I'm suprised DL and co haven't ***** about this (unless they have and I didn't see the quotes). This is a bad call in the third period of a close game between two teams that are competing for playoff position against one another and could cost us a playoff spot (even though we've also cost ourselves a playoff spot with our **** play this year, but you know what I mean).

I'd be livid if I was DL.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-23-2012, 01:38 PM
  #42
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
Why do people keep talking about "blindside?" That got removed from the rulebook. The new Rule 48 is:



The only rule that deals with hitting unaware players is checking from behind (rule 43), which requires contact to be made with the back.



And "defenseless" is in the boarding rule (41).
Thank you. You have explained everything for those who wish to base their opinion on actual facts regarding the rules. For those who imagine different rules that the actual official rules, I am afraid that your post will not be enough.

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.