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Vanek for Stastny?

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Old
02-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #51
Avs44
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
oh, yea, totally...

Vanek turns 3rd liners into 1st liners.

Luke Adam, 20 pts in 20 games.... with Vanek. Without him, 1 pt in 24 games, and now back in Rochester.
Your taking a small sample size of his linemates and makeing it sound like that's all he plays with. Are we conveniently forgetting about Pominville? Or the fact that he has had some opportunities with Roy?

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02-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #52
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who cares, both are first liners that is forsure. Gauranteed BUF fans don't watch COL much to have a true opinion, same goes for COL fans

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02-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #53
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Colorado is near the bottom of the league in goal scoring right?

Has anyone on their roster ever even scored 30 goals in this league (besides Hejduk like maybe 7 years ago)...

Vanek is a proven, top of the league goal scorer...
Stastny is a more common top 6 center.

How many players have scored over 200 goals the last 5+ seasons? VERY few.

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02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #54
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I'd be more interested in a package of Stafford, Sekera, and a prospect for Statsny.

As much as Statsny fills a hole for Buffalo in center, moving him for Vanek simply creates a top line winger hole.

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02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Your taking a small sample size of his linemates and makeing it sound like that's all he plays with. Are we conveniently forgetting about Pominville? Or the fact that he has had some opportunities with Roy?
The point is he produces... with anyone. He goes to the net, and finishes plays. Pominville is by far the best player he's ever played with, and he only played with him this year and half of last year.

Derek Roy/Paul Stastny, they are good, complimentary, top 6 centers. But on a contender, they are 2nd line guys, secondary scorers... Vanek is a 1st line scorer on any team in the league.

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02-22-2012, 12:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Evgeni Giroux View Post
who cares, both are first liners that is forsure. Gauranteed BUF fans don't watch COL much to have a true opinion, same goes for COL fans
West coast hockey fans get to watch a lot more east coast hockey then east coast fans get to watch west coast. Thats just a fact.

The Avs "Northwest division" consists of all pacific time zone teams except for Minnesota. Our games start a lot of times at 10:00 ET, so people on the east coast aren't staying up that late to even see the first period.

Meanwhile, east coast games start at 5:00 PT/MT and we get to watch the game when we get home from work and sit down with a beer.

Not to mention nearly every Saturday/Sunday or highlighted national game on NBCSB (was VS) is east coast teams playing. Hell, I probably watch more east coast hockey just because I watch almost as much hockey as I can get on national television and much of it is east coast teams.

Just the facts

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02-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mjeurekasky View Post
Yea good call. So if we're talking Stafford +? for Stastny, who's the question mark? Dare I say Luke Adam?? :S (God I hope not)
If you can trade Stafford and Adam for Stastny you do it without thinking twice.

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02-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
I'd be more interested in a package of Stafford, Sekera, and a prospect for Statsny.

As much as Statsny fills a hole for Buffalo in center, moving him for Vanek simply creates a top line winger hole.
Sure you would. But the Avs and Sherman (hopefully) wouldnt.
Stastny + Barrie for Vanek + 2nd.

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02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The point is he produces... with anyone. He goes to the net, and finishes plays. Pominville is by far the best player he's ever played with, and he only played with him this year and half of last year.

Derek Roy/Paul Stastny, they are good, complimentary, top 6 centers. But on a contender, they
are 2nd line guys, secondary scorers... Vanek is a 1st line scorer on any team in the league.
And you still conveniently forget what Stastny is capable of with good linemates. 80 points is now considered 2nd line material huh? Good to know. For your information, the team that won the Stanley Cup last year has guys centering their team VERY similar to Stastny. The fact that you just said Stastny would be a 2nd liner on a contending team is plain stupid. A contending team could just as easily have Stastny on their top line as not.


Yes, regardless of linemates Vanek has produced. But his linemates are a hell of a lot better than Stastny's. If Stastny had guys like Pominville on his wing, I can guarantee you that he would return to his ppg form. I notice a lit of Sabres fans love to compare the two, but tell me, tell me what you think would happen if Stastny had Pominville/Adam on his wings, and Vanek had Porter/Galiardi. I love how fans like you, when talking about Stastny, just bring up stats and completely ignore situation and linemates.

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02-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #60
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Honestly, I'm sorry to say but Vanek for Statsny is a no-go. Without Vanek, the team really doesn't have a dynamic offensive player. Though Pommer is playing REALLY well this year, he hasn't been this consistent in the past. Letting go of Vanek is just probably not going to happen. That being said, buffalo can still offer some good pieces for Statsny, but I hesitate to make a suggestion, not really knowing the Av's needs. It can be said though, that the sabres available assets include Wingers, and D-Men, maybe Enroth, again depending on the needs. The players they most likely won't trade for him include: Roy (makes the deal fairly pointless, as you don't improove the situation there), Vanek, Pommer, Myers. Everyone else could probably be in the discussion.

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02-22-2012, 03:58 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
And you still conveniently forget what Stastny is capable of with good linemates. 80 points is now considered 2nd line material huh? Good to know. For your information, the team that won the Stanley Cup last year has guys centering their team VERY similar to Stastny. The fact that you just said Stastny would be a 2nd liner on a contending team is plain stupid. A contending team could just as easily have Stastny on their top line as not.
oh, so a contending team is going to demote their 1st line center? makes sense

Quote:
Yes, regardless of linemates Vanek has produced. But his linemates are a hell of a lot better than Stastny's. If Stastny had guys like Pominville on his wing, I can guarantee you that he would return to his ppg form. I notice a lit of Sabres fans love to compare the two, but tell me, tell me what you think would happen if Stastny had Pominville/Adam on his wings, and Vanek had Porter/Galiardi. I love how fans like you, when talking about Stastny, just bring up stats and completely ignore situation and linemates.

i love how fans are irrationally protective of players...

1st line talent, doesn't need 1st line linemates, to produce like a 1st liner.

you have a broader description of a 1st liner.

I think the game has tightened up a lot since Stastny had his break out years. I don't see him returning to that 80 pt level. Just like I don't see Derek Roy returning their either.

Last Year, Stastny's most common linemates were :
David Jones 40%
Chris Stewart 32%
Milan Hejduk 27%

While being the #1 forward in ice time on the team... In a #1 center role, with pretty good goal scoring linemates...

57 pts in 74 games
^
That's who Paul Stastny is...

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02-22-2012, 04:20 PM
  #62
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@Jame
Why is everybody always talking down Stastny and pointing out his poor production (and they always use the 2011 year and not a bigger sample size like his last 3 years or a smaller like his last 14 points in 15 games after he finally got somewhat decent linemates)`? Oh yeah to justify their lowball offer despite everyone secretly believing he could blossom with superior linemates.

Every team trading for Stastny has to believe he is a #1 Center. If you dont believe that, he is not worth the 6.6 M and there is no point in acquiring him. If you feel the same way as Avs fans and want to acquire him, you better pay the price. Look at the JVR discussion. This guy has not proven anything in this league. Stastny has. Yet it seems like the offers for Stastny are significantly worse.

Stafford for me is a nogo. Guy had a career year with a ridiculuosly high shooting percentage who got paid.

Vanek just makes sense. Top Line Winger for Top Line Center.
Sure you would want to pair Vanek with Stastny. But why would we help fulfill that dream. If Vanek is not involved (and yes maybe we would have to add), you better pay out of your nose for Paul.
Look what Richards and Carter got. Stastny is in the same class. Heck right now I would not trade him for Carter and maybe not even Richards.


Last edited by JoemAvs: 02-22-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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02-22-2012, 04:33 PM
  #63
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Stastny's a playmaker, not a goalscorer.
So it would make sense that he actually needs linemates to produce points...

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02-22-2012, 04:40 PM
  #64
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Upgrading the center position means nothing - NOTHING - if it involves trading the team's one pure goal scorer to get him. I'd love Stastny in a Sabres sweater but there's no way I'd allow Vanek to be part of the return going to Colorado.

Pominville will never be more than a 30-goal man at best and Stafford could very well never hit 20 goals again. Everyone else in the Sabres' system - be it Gerbe, Ennis or Kassian - aren't likely going to be the kind of sniper and power play presence that Vanek has been.

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02-22-2012, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Since Stastny is so horrible, I can't see Buffalo wanting him. Avs are stuck with him.

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02-22-2012, 04:46 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
oh, so a contending team is going to demote their 1st line center? makes sense




i love how fans are irrationally protective of players...



1st line talent, doesn't need 1st line linemates, to produce like a 1st liner.


you have a broader description of a 1st liner.

I think the game has tightened up
a lot since Stastny had his break out years. I don't see him returning to that 80 pt level. Just like I don't see Derek Roy returning their either.

Last Year, Stastny's most common linemates were :
David Jones 40%
Chris Stewart 32%
Milan Hejduk 27%


While being the #1 forward in ice time on the team... In a #1 center role, with pretty good goal scoring linemates...


57 pts in 74 games
^
That's who Paul Stastny is...
About the first part... learn to read. That's not what I said. All I said is that Stastny is capable of being a #1 center on a contending team. I was not talking about trading him to a contender and having him displace their centers. Wow.


About the rest. Your fairly hopeless. Yet another fan trying to discredit Stastny and get him for as little as possible. Nice try, but no. Have fun with Derek Roy centering your top line for years to come. I really could care less. The more you post the more it becomes painfully obvious you know NOTHING about the Avs. First line talent does not need 1st line talent to make him a 1st line player? Yeah, great logic there. Linemates don't matter.


It's pretty clear that your throwing the whole concept of linemates out the window because it discredits everything you've been posting. You have no reply when people say Stastny has been playing with crappy linemates, and what would happen if he had good ones, so you say they no longer matter. I notice you didn't even bother replying to what I said, just "1st line talent does not need 1st line talent to perform like a 1st liner" JoemAvs hit it on the head. Your just like multiple other fans: they all want Stastny, hate the asking price, so try and discredit him. Why even bother posting if this is all your going to do?

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02-22-2012, 04:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
About the first part... learn to read. That's not what I said. All I said is that Stastny is capable of being a #1 center on a contending team. I was not talking about trading him to a contender and having him displace their centers. Wow.


About the rest. Your fairly hopeless. Yet another fan trying to discredit Stastny and get him for as little as possible. Nice try, but no. Have fun with Derek Roy centering your top line for years to come. I really could care less. The more you post the more it becomes painfully obvious you know NOTHING about the Avs. First line talent does not need 1st line talent to make him a 1st line player? Yeah, great logic there. Linemates don't matter.


It's pretty clear that your throwing the whole concept of linemates out the window because it discredits everything you've been posting. You have no reply when people say Stastny has been playing with crappy linemates, and what would happen if he had good ones, so you say they no longer matter. I notice you didn't even bother replying to what I said, just "1st line talent does not need 1st line talent to perform like a 1st liner" JoemAvs hit it on the head. Your just like multiple other fans: they all want Stastny, hate the asking price, so try and discredit him. Why even bother posting if this is all your going to do?
Or we know that it is rare to get a true #1 center via trade, so we're willing to settle for a 1a/1b situation with Stastny and Roy, who are virtually identical statistically, and we aren't willing to trade our elite sniper for the player that we want him to play with. Make sense now? Vanek for Stastny is a non-starter. It fits Colorado's needs, but simply replaces one problem with another in Buffalo. If, however, the Avs were willing to take a lesser winger such as Stafford or Ennis + a 1st and a prospect (if the deal is around Stafford), then we have something to work with.

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02-22-2012, 04:55 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
About the first part... learn to read. That's not what I said. All I said is that Stastny is capable of being a #1 center on a contending team. I was not talking about trading him to a contender and having him displace their centers. Wow.


About the rest. Your fairly hopeless. Yet another fan trying to discredit Stastny and get him for as little as possible. Nice try, but no. Have fun with Derek Roy centering your top line for years to come. I really could care less. The more you post the more it becomes painfully obvious you know NOTHING about the Avs. First line talent does not need 1st line talent to make him a 1st line player? Yeah, great logic there. Linemates don't matter.


It's pretty clear that your throwing the whole concept of linemates out the window because it discredits everything you've been posting. You have no reply when people say Stastny has been playing with crappy linemates, and what would happen if he had good ones, so you say they no longer matter. I notice you didn't even bother replying to what I said, just "1st line talent does not need 1st line talent to perform like a 1st liner" JoemAvs hit it on the head. Your just like multiple other fans: they all want Stastny, hate the asking price, so try and discredit him. Why even bother posting if this is all your going to do?
I have lived in Colorado Springs for the last three years after being born and raised in Buffalo. I won't pretend to watch every Avs game that is on but I do watch quite a few. Obviously due to my location, almost everyone I talk hockey with are Avs fans. Most of them do not value Stastny like you do. Some hate him, some think he is a decent player. No one believes him to be an 80 pt #1 center that just needs better line mates.

The truth is Jame is 100% correct. Stastny is not equal in value to Vanek and it would take a first or something of equal value added to land a player like Vanek. Stastny is exactly what you see him as now, not the 80 pt player of the past. Stop focusing on his last name. He is a low end first line center and is equal (at best) in value to Derek Roy and Vanek is worth quite a bit more than Roy.

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02-22-2012, 05:06 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
I have lived in Colorado Springs for the last three years after being born and raised in Buffalo. I won't pretend to watch every Avs game that is on but I do watch quite a few. Obviously due to my location, almost everyone I talk hockey with are Avs fans. Most of them do not value Stastny like you do. Some hate him, some think he is a decent player. No one believes him to be an 80 pt #1 center that just needs better line mates.

The truth is Jame is 100% correct. Stastny is not equal in value to Vanek and it would take a first or something of equal value added to land a player like Vanek. Stastny is exactly what you see him as now, not the 80 pt player of the past. Stop focusing on his last name. He is a low end first line center and is equal (at best) in value to Derek Roy and Vanek is worth quite a bit more than Roy.
No he is not. Roy is not on the same level as Stastny.
I can tell you why the casual fan of the Avs does not value Stastny. He is not flashy. He is a playmaker. And he is one of the fall guys for what has happened last year. But he is better than Roy I can tell you that. If Vanek is off limits which is fine, you will have to overpay in order to get him. Stafford + decent prospect is not in the ball park. It would take at least your 1st + a teams top prospect ( Winger preferably). I am not familiar with the development of your prospect so I wont say anything besides not really being in love with one of em.

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02-22-2012, 05:15 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
No he is not. Roy is not on the same level as Stastny.
You're right, Roy is better.

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02-22-2012, 05:16 PM
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You're right, Roy is better.
I hope you mean patrick roy..

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02-22-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
No he is not. Roy is not on the same level as Stastny.
I can tell you why the casual fan of the Avs does not value Stastny. He is not flashy. He is a playmaker. And he is one of the fall guys for what has happened last year. But he is better than Roy I can tell you that. If Vanek is off limits which is fine, you will have to overpay in order to get him. Stafford + decent prospect is not in the ball park. It would take at least your 1st + a teams top prospect ( Winger preferably). I am not familiar with the development of your prospect so I wont say anything besides not really being in love with one of em.
You sure about that?

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02-22-2012, 05:24 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
I have lived in Colorado Springs for the last three years after being born and raised in Buffalo. I won't pretend to watch every Avs game that is on but I do watch quite a few. Obviously due to my location, almost everyone I talk hockey with are Avs fans. Most of them do not value Stastny like you do. Some hate him, some think he is a decent player. No one believes
him to be an 80 pt #1 center that just needs better line mates.

The truth is Jame is 100% correct. Stastny is not equal in value to
Vanek and it would take a first or something of equal value added to land a player like Vanek. Stastny is exactly what you see him as now, not the 80 pt player of the past. Stop focusing on his last name.
He is a low end first line center and is equal (at best) in value to Derek Roy and Vanek is worth quite a bit more than Roy.
I was actually listening to you before this. After I read thus you lost all credit with me. I highly doubt you live in Colorado, because 3/4 of all Avs fans agree that Stastny needs better linemates.

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02-22-2012, 05:24 PM
  #74
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yeah I don't want anyone from Buffalo.

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02-22-2012, 05:27 PM
  #75
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You sure about that?
Yeah, I think all Avs fans are pretty sure... and we could care less what any Buffalo fans think.

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