HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Vanek for Stastny?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2012, 05:29 PM
  #76
WhoIsJimBob
#TankEnvy
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Roy & Stafford for Stastny


WhoIsJimBob is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 05:29 PM
  #77
Timbo Slice
Tank Nation
 
Timbo Slice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 15,786
vCash: 500
What a mess.... Neither team does this trade, regardless of whether or not Vanek = Stastny, or Stastny = Roy, or if whoever the hell Stastny plays with equals who Vanek plays with.... It doesn't matter. Neither team would do this.

Timbo Slice is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 05:36 PM
  #78
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,537
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
I'd take Roy over Stastny any day. He's much more of a difference maker. I'd also take a healthy Roy over Vanek any day.

stokes84 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 05:38 PM
  #79
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Lets do a little comparison between Statsny and Roy:

Statsny:

06-07:

GP:82
G:28
A:50
P:78
+/-: 4
PPG:.95

07-08
GP:66
G:24
A:47
P:71
+/-: 22
PPG:1.07

08-09

GP:45
G:11
A:25
P:36
+/-: -9
PPG: .8

09-10

GP:81
G:20
A:59
P:79
+/-: 2
PPG:.97

10-11
GP:74
G:22
A:35
P:57
+/-: -7
PPG:.77

11-12

GP:57
G:14
A:23
P:37
+/-: -7
PPG:.64

Career:

GP:405
G:119
A:239
P:358
+/-:5
PPG:.88



Roy:

06-07

GP:75
G:21
A:42
P:63
+/-:37
PPG:.84

07-08

GP:78
G:32
A:49
P:81
+/-:13
PPG:1.03

08-09
GP:82
G:28
A:42
P:70
+/-:-5
PPG:.85

09-10

GP:80
G:26
A:43
P:69
+/-:9
PPG:.86

10-11

GP:35
G:10
A:25
P:35
+/-:-1
PPG:1.0

11-12

GP:58
G:13
A:21
P:34
+/-:-6
PPG:.58

Career:

GP:527
G:157
A:260
P:417
+/-:40
PPG:.79

Since 06-07 (when statsny joined the league):

GP:408
G:130
A:222
P:352
+/-:47
PPG:.86



All things considered, Statsny isn't that much different then Roy. While some of his numbers are a bit higher or a bit lower, they really do even out. Since Statsny has entered the league, statistically the two players have been nearly dead even. 405-408 games played, 119-130 Goals, 239-222 assists, .88-.86 Points per game. Roy scores slightly more, Statsny gets slightly more assists. Either way, they are EXTREMELY similar. Comparing those stats, Derek Roy is actually slightly healthier then Statsny, only playing under 70 games once in his career (excluding the first year in buffalo as he didn't play the whole year in the NHL), and the one year that he WAS under 70 games it was a season ending injury 35 games in. Statsny is slightly less durable, having played less then 70 twice. TBH I would have to say that their value is pretty close, statsny might get a slight edge because he is signed for one year longer, but his cap hit is 6.6 million, compared to Roy's much friendlier 4.0.




Honestly I'm not too sure how you can think that Statsny is worth Vanek straight up, because Roy certainly is not.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 05:42 PM
  #80
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
^^ good post. Thanks for actually going to the trouble of researching, but please post stats for all their linemates too. It'll be eye opening.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 05:43 PM
  #81
fiend540
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Get your stats out of this thread, You don't know the avs and western fans watch every east coast game!

fiend540 is online now  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:05 PM
  #82
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Honestly, I am having trouble finding a source for line mates for either player going that far back....very difficult to find a record of it before last year.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #83
SabresHockey66
Registered User
 
SabresHockey66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I was actually listening to you before this. After I read thus you lost all credit with me. I highly doubt you live in Colorado, because 3/4 of all Avs fans agree that Stastny needs better linemates.
Nowhere did I say anything about Stastny not needing better linemates. Of course he would do better with better linemates, any center would. Put Derek Roy with Ovechkin and Cory Perry and I'm sure Roy would have 80+ points again. That doesn't mean Roy isn't a bottom end 1st line center. You are not objective, you are enamored with a player.

And I do indeed live in Colorado. Peyton to be exact. And just because a large population of Avs fans do not agree with you does not discredit them or my statements. Take off the rose colored glasses, then come back to the conversation.

SabresHockey66 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:18 PM
  #84
La Cosa Nostra
Eichel welcome 2 BUF
 
La Cosa Nostra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,421
vCash: 500
Give Statsny 17 mins a game and let's see how much he produces.. Vanek is untouchable, he is an elite goal scorer, and one of the best players in the league in terms of goals/60 min.

La Cosa Nostra is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:24 PM
  #85
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
About the first part... learn to read. That's not what I said. All I said is that Stastny is capable of being a #1 center on a contending team. I was not talking about trading him to a contender and having him displace their centers. Wow.


About the rest. Your fairly hopeless. Yet another fan trying to discredit Stastny and get him for as little as possible. Nice try, but no. Have fun with Derek Roy centering your top line for years to come. I really could care less. The more you post the more it becomes painfully obvious you know NOTHING about the Avs. First line talent does not need 1st line talent to make him a 1st line player? Yeah, great logic there. Linemates don't matter.


It's pretty clear that your throwing the whole concept of linemates out the window because it discredits everything you've been posting. You have no reply when people say Stastny has been playing with crappy linemates, and what would happen if he had good ones, so you say they no longer matter. I notice you didn't even bother replying to what I said, just "1st line talent does not need 1st line talent to perform like a 1st liner" JoemAvs hit it on the head. Your just like multiple other fans: they all want Stastny, hate the asking price, so try and discredit him. Why even bother posting if this is all your going to do?
i actually had a pretty good reply when you brought up linemates. i pointed out last season...Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk are crappy linemates? i just showed you what he did in a full season, with good linemates... and it's not that impressive.

i actually offered Vanek for Stastny + a 1st and a decent bottom 6 guy.

that's still a pretty fair offer... and good deal for the Avs.

the linemates argument is an excuse.

accept that it's a counter POV. stop whining about it.

Roy and Stastny are pretty equivalent players in skill and trade value. i would give stastny the edge in terms of 2 way play (buffalo fans massively overrate roy's 2 way game). but Roy is a better goal scorer/finisher. they are both equaly good playmakers.

now, buffalo has absolutely no depth at center, so trading roy for a winger is a non starter... but if we had oreily and duchene... and had the opportunity to land someone like Nash (who i equate rather equally with Vanek)....id be jumping up and down to ship roy and a 1st for him.

irrational fan bases on HF...

Jame is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:26 PM
  #86
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
Nowhere did I say anything about Stastny not needing better linemates. Of course he would do better with better linemates, any center would. Put Derek Roy with Ovechkin and Cory Perry and I'm sure Roy would have 80+ points again. That doesn't mean Roy isn't a bottom end 1st line center. You are not objective, you are enamored with a player.

And I do indeed live in Colorado. Peyton to be exact. And just because a large population of Avs
fans do not agree with you does not discredit them or my statements. Take off the rose colored glasses, then come back to the conversation.
Judging from your comment: "The majority of the Avs fans I've talked to do not feel Stastny is a 80 point center who needs better linemates" it came across that you were saying linemates don't matter. My apologies. I doubted you lived in Colorado, because no Av fan I've ever talked to had ever expressed the opinion you said they did. Quite the contrary, most agree Stastny could easily be the player he once was if he got better wingers. I question even more how many games you watched, because if you've watched recently, you'd have seen he's returned a ppg pace since Mueller's return.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:30 PM
  #87
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
No he is not. Roy is not on the same level as Stastny.
I can tell you why the casual fan of the Avs does not value Stastny. He is not flashy. He is a playmaker. And he is one of the fall guys for what has happened last year. But he is better than Roy I can tell you that. If Vanek is off limits which is fine, you will have to overpay in order to get him. Stafford + decent prospect is not in the ball park. It would take at least your 1st + a teams top prospect ( Winger preferably). I am not familiar with the development of your prospect so I wont say anything besides not really being in love with one of em.
roy and stastny are about as equal as any 2 non elite centers i can think of.

atleast Roy's contract is in line or below market value for his production, where as Stastny's cap hit is about 2 million above where it should be

Jame is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:31 PM
  #88
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Judging from your comment: "The majority of the Avs fans I've talked to do not feel Stastny is a 80 point center who needs better linemates" it came across that you were saying linemates don't matter. My apologies. I doubted you lived in Colorado, because no Av fan I've ever talked to had ever expressed the opinion you said they did. Quite the contrary, most agree Stastny could easily be the player he once was if he got better wingers. I question even more how many games you watched, because if you've watched recently, you'd have seen he's returned a ppg pace since Mueller's return.
oh.. all this time all he needed was better linemates like peter ****ing mueller...:laug h:

Jame is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:36 PM
  #89
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i actually had a pretty good reply when you brought up linemates. i pointed out last season...Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk are crappy linemates? i just showed you what he did in a full season, with good linemates... and it's not that impressive.

i actually offered Vanek for Stastny +
a 1st and a decent bottom 6 guy.

that's still a pretty fair offer... and good deal for the Avs.

the linemates argument is an excuse.


accept that it's a counter POV. stop whining about it.

Roy and Stastny are pretty equivalent players in skill and trade value. i would give stastny the
edge in terms of 2 way play (buffalo fans massively overrate roy's 2 way game). but Roy is a better goal scorer/finisher. they are both equaly good playmakers.


now, buffalo has absolutely no depth at center, so trading roy for a winger is a non starter... but if we had oreily and duchene... and had the opportunity to land someone
like Nash (who i equate rather equally with Vanek)....id be jumping up and down to ship roy and a 1st for him.

irrational fan bases on
HF...
Stastny was on a ppg pace until the bottom fell out if our team last year after the ASG. Then everything collapsed. We had 200+ man games lost I believe between then and seasons end.


You consider it fair. All Avs fans who replyed did not. How's that fair if an entire fanbase disagrees?


No, it's a valid point. You just don't like it because it's the truth.


I'm not the one whining here.


Were going to have to disagree on this one, because me, along with almost every Avs fan feels differently. Clearly you and most Sabres fans feel Roy and Stastny are equal. It's been beaten to death, and clearly no ones opinion is going to change.



I don't see why we have to add that much when it seems their
values are not that far apart. I would love to have Vanek/Nash, but not for what you think we'd have to add. Once again well have to agree to disagree, because I know Sabres fans will compare Roy/Stastny and say Vanek is way more valuable than Roy, therefore he's way more valuable than Stastny too.



I hope you are referring to the Sabres fanbase here.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:37 PM
  #90
Landeslog
Registered User
 
Landeslog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,279
vCash: 500
Umm, Mueller's been fantastic on the Avs and better than most of the wingers Stastny has been paired with the last couple of years.

Landeslog is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:37 PM
  #91
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
oh.. all this time all he needed was better linemates like peter ****ing mueller...:laug h:
You really don't know who Mueller is do you...

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:37 PM
  #92
Freudian
Clearly deranged
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 33,430
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i actually had a pretty good reply when you brought up linemates. i pointed out last season...Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk are crappy linemates? i just showed you what he did in a full season, with good linemates... and it's not that impressive.

i actually offered Vanek for Stastny + a 1st and a decent bottom 6 guy.

that's still a pretty fair offer... and good deal for the Avs.

the linemates argument is an excuse.

accept that it's a counter POV. stop whining about it.

Roy and Stastny are pretty equivalent players in skill and trade value. i would give stastny the edge in terms of 2 way play (buffalo fans massively overrate roy's 2 way game). but Roy is a better goal scorer/finisher. they are both equaly good playmakers.

now, buffalo has absolutely no depth at center, so trading roy for a winger is a non starter... but if we had oreily and duchene... and had the opportunity to land someone like Nash (who i equate rather equally with Vanek)....id be jumping up and down to ship roy and a 1st for him.

irrational fan bases on HF...
Stastny was pretty much a PPG player playing with Stewart last season. He didn't play with Hejduk much at all. The other winger was Galiardi/Jones for the first half. Stewart did miss a month with a wrist injury and then was traded in February so he spend less than half a season on the Avs last year.

When his production dropped during the second half it was a Jones/Porter or Jones/Stoa combination he was playing with more often than not.

Freudian is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:38 PM
  #93
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam333 View Post
Umm, Mueller's been fantastic on the Avs and better than most of the wingers Stastny has been paired with the last couple of years.
I'm assuming he's forgotten who Mueller is considering how long he was concussed...

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:39 PM
  #94
SabresHockey66
Registered User
 
SabresHockey66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Judging from your comment: "The majority of the Avs fans I've talked to do not feel Stastny is a 80 point center who needs better linemates" it came across that you were saying linemates don't matter. My apologies. I doubted you lived in Colorado, because no Av fan I've ever talked to had ever expressed the opinion you said they did. Quite the contrary, most agree Stastny could easily be the player he once was if he got better wingers. I question even more how many games you watched, because if you've watched recently, you'd have seen he's returned a ppg pace since Mueller's return.
15 games does not a season or career define.

Players get hot. Drew Stafford scored 31 goals last year but also had a large number of hat trick games which people use to his detriment ("He's not consistent" "He scores in bunches" "Hot streak" etc etc) and they are not incorrect. Stastny had his best seasons playing with HOF players, who would make anyone look better.

I'm not saying Stastny isn't a good player, or that he can't play on a first line. He can, so can Derek Roy. But neither are who you want centering your first line in a perfect world.

If you don't want to trade Stastny for Vanek or Stastney+ for him, that's fine. That doesn't mean that isn't Vanek's value or that it wouldn't be what Buffalo would be asking for.

SabresHockey66 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:40 PM
  #95
Freudian
Clearly deranged
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 33,430
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
15 games does not a season or career define.

Players get hot. Drew Stafford scored 31 goals last year but also had a large number of hat trick games which people use to his detriment ("He's not consistent" "He scores in bunches" "Hot streak" etc etc) and they are not incorrect. Stastny had his best seasons playing with HOF players, who would make anyone look better.

I'm not saying Stastny isn't a good player, or that he can't play on a first line. He can, so can Derek Roy. But neither are who you want centering your first line in a perfect world.

If you don't want to trade Stastny for Vanek or Stastney+ for him, that's fine. That doesn't mean that isn't Vanek's value or that it wouldn't be what Buffalo would be asking for.
And apparently the first four years of a players career doesn't either, but January 2011-December 2012 totally does.

Freudian is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:41 PM
  #96
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Stastny was on a ppg pace until the bottom fell out if our team last year after the ASG. Then everything collapsed. We had 200+ man games lost I believe between then and seasons end.


You consider it fair. All Avs fans who replyed did not. How's that fair if an entire fanbase disagrees?


No, it's a valid point. You just don't like it because it's the truth.


I'm not the one whining here.


Were going to have to disagree on this one, because me, along with almost every Avs fan feels differently. Clearly you and most Sabres fans feel Roy and Stastny are equal. It's been beaten to death, and clearly no ones opinion is going to change.



I don't see why we have to add that much when it seems their
values are not that far apart. I would love to have Vanek/Nash, but not for what you think we'd have to add. Once again well have to agree to disagree, because I know Sabres fans will compare Roy/Stastny and say Vanek is way more valuable than Roy, therefore he's way more valuable than Stastny too.



I hope you are referring to the Sabres fanbase here.


Ehhhhh Injuries aren't an excuse in this case, Roy is keeping up with Statsny this year and we are currently over 250 man games lost.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:42 PM
  #97
MagnumForce
Registered User
 
MagnumForce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Country: United States
Posts: 2,422
vCash: 500
Would I like to have Stastny on the Sabres? Absolutely, but not at the price of Vanek.

MagnumForce is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:42 PM
  #98
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
15 games does not a season or career define.

Players get hot. Drew Stafford scored 31 goals last year but also had a large number of hat trick games which people use to his detriment ("He's not consistent" "He scores in bunches" "Hot streak" etc etc) and they are not
incorrect. Stastny had his best seasons playing with HOF players, who would make anyone look better.


I'm not saying Stastny isn't a good player, or that he can't play on a first line. He can, so can Derek
Roy. But neither are who you want centering your first line in a perfect world.


If you don't want to trade Stastny for Vanek or Stastney+ for him, that's fine. That doesn't mean that
isn't Vanek's value or that it wouldn't be what Buffalo would be asking for.
Very true. Nor can you base a players value off one year with poor linemates and injuries like every other fan in this thread. Stastny's pace in the last 15 games is one cue with his career pace. Isn't it more likely that the past year has been unlucky and that he's returning to form?



Oh, and which HOF's?? Stastny never really had Sakic on his wing or anything if that's what you mean...

Avs44 is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #99
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
You really don't know who Mueller is do you...
a guy who's played like 40 games the last 2 years, he totally loves jesus a lot, and has had serious concussion problems

totally a better linemate then Chris Stewart and Milan Hejduk were last year...

Jame is offline  
Old
02-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #100
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
And apparently the first four years of a players career doesn't either, but January 2011-December 2012 totally does.
Please refer to my post concerning Statsny and Roy's Career Statistics....nearly identical....

HiddenInLight is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.