HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

2 Leafs Proposals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2012, 05:18 PM
  #1
LeafsFan2342
#CallupColborne
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,100
vCash: 500
2 Leafs Proposals

1st proposal:


To Columbus
Luke Schenn
Nazem Kadri
Clarke MacArthur
2012 1st round pick


To Toronto
Rick Nash
2012 3rd round pick


2nd proposal:


To Avalanche
Mikhail Grabovski
2013 2nd round pick
2012 3rd rounder from CBJ deal


To Toronto
Paul Stastny


Flame away!


Last edited by LeafsFan2342: 02-22-2012 at 06:43 PM.
LeafsFan2342 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:24 PM
  #2
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Downgrading from our signed #1C to your unsigned #1C for a 2nd and 5th is not worth it. This doesn't address the Avs' needs and the Avs could easily get better offers from other teams. Pretty brutal.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:25 PM
  #3
IBLeaf*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oakville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,378
vCash: 500
A bit too much for Nash, but I want him. Maybe take out the 1st and change the 3rd to a 2nd.

IBLeaf* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:28 PM
  #4
TorontoTrades
Registered User
 
TorontoTrades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,385
vCash: 500
change it to Grabo, Aulie and a 3rd

TorontoTrades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:34 PM
  #5
CharlieKelly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Downgrading from our signed #1C to your unsigned #1C for a 2nd and 5th is not worth it. This doesn't address the Avs' needs and the Avs could easily get better offers from other teams. Pretty brutal.
I agree I don't think this is quite enough for you either. What are Colorado's needs that could be addressed by the Leafs with Grabo? I'm assuming a conditional pick if Grabo doesn't sign might not cut it.

What if we removed the 2nd and 5th rounder and included a guy like Kulemin. We would need a roster player back along with Statsny, not a prospect but someone serviceable.

CharlieKelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:37 PM
  #6
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Take out one of Kadri or Macarthur and the Nash deal would be more even.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:38 PM
  #7
Hockey 4 Life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieKelly View Post
I agree I don't think this quite enough for you either. What are Colorado's needs that could be addressed by the Leafs with Grabo? I'm assuming a conditional pick if Grabo doesn't sign?

What if we removed the 2nd and 5th rounder and included a guy like Kulemin. We would need a roster player back along with Statsny, not a prospect but someone serviceable.
Forget a conditional anything. Allow Colorado permission to talk contract with Grabo from now until the deadline. If a deal can be put in place toronto sends grabo macarthur and a 3rd to the avs for stastny and a 2nd. If macarthur isnt what you want then a prospect or another player on the team with similar value to mac would be fair. Considering grabo said the only other place he would play other then toronto would be the avs what do you guys think ?

Hockey 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:39 PM
  #8
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 7,587
vCash: 3319
Absolutely not from Colorado. Taking a downgrade in our center position, for an impending UFA, and we only get a 2nd and 5th in compensation is awful. Not well thought out at all.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:39 PM
  #9
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
change it to Grabo, Aulie and a 3rd
Nash has a cap hit of $1.2M more than Stastny, Stastny has a higher career point average but Nash scores more goals, Nash is 3 years older, Stastny plays a more valuable position, and both play with pretty bad surrounding talent. Yet Nash somehow fetches a top-six winger, a blue-chip prospect, a first, a third, and a budding shutdown D. Stastny gets an UFA with less pedigree, a 2nd, and a 5th. The only argument for this disparity is that a forty goal scorer is worth this significant price; however, the age, salary, defense, position, and points make up for this and more in my opinion.

If I were the Avs, I would think that the value of:

Stastny
Jones

for

Schenn
Kulemin
1st
Connolly

is far closer. I would probably still not pull the trigger.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:42 PM
  #10
Matt Damon
Registered User
 
Matt Damon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Manitoba
Country: Canada
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Overall the offer for Nash is decent value wise, but if other teams can offer a young goaltender or future #1-2 defenseman (or both) then Toronto might be hooped. That's why I would think the conversation starts and ends with Gardiner as the centerpiece.

Matt Damon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:44 PM
  #11
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Nash has a cap hit of $1.2M more than Stastny, Stastny has a higher career point average but Nash scores more goals, Nash is 3 years older, Stastny plays a more valuable position, and both play with pretty bad surrounding talent. Yet Nash somehow fetches a top-six winger, a blue-chip prospect, a first, a third, and a budding shutdown D. Stastny gets an UFA with less pedigree, a 2nd, and a 5th. The only argument for this disparity is that a forty goal scorer is worth this significant price; however, the age, salary, defense, position, and points make up for this and more in my opinion.

If I were the Avs, I would think that the value of:

Stastny
Jones

for

Schenn
Kulemin
1st
Connolly

is far closer. I would probably still not pull the trigger.
It's okay, neither would the Leafs. Nash and Stastny are 2 different players and Nash showcases what we are lacking in our top 6. A gritty power forward who can score and has an extreme amount of talent. Schenn Kulemin 1st Connolly? Hell no, massive overpayment.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:44 PM
  #12
Hockey 4 Life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Forget a conditional anything. Allow Colorado permission to talk contract with Grabo from now until the deadline. If a deal can be put in place toronto sends grabo macarthur and a 3rd to the avs for stastny and a 2nd. If macarthur isnt what you want then a prospect or another player on the team with similar value to mac would be fair. Considering grabo said the only other place he would play other then toronto would be the avs what do you guys think ?
From an avs fan perspective what do you guys think of the above proposal?

Hockey 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:45 PM
  #13
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHockeySanctuary View Post
It's okay, neither would the Leafs. Nash and Stastny are 2 different players and Nash showcases what we are lacking in our top 6. A gritty power forward who can score and has an extreme amount of talent. Schenn Kulemin 1st Connolly? Hell no, massive overpayment.
Fair enough. Stastny is worth almost as much as Nash; don't let your ignorance fool you.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:47 PM
  #14
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Fair enough. Stastny is worth almost as much as Nash; don't let your ignorance fool you.
No ignorance...just hockey knowledge. Nash is one of the best power forwards in the game, hands down. Stastny is not one of the best centres in the league, it's just fact.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 05:55 PM
  #15
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHockeySanctuary View Post
No ignorance...just hockey knowledge. Nash is one of the best power forwards in the game, hands down. Stastny is not one of the best centres in the league, it's just fact.
It's not when it's unsubstantiated. I agree Nash is one of the best powerforwards in the league. Stastny was #1C on Team USA for a reason, is #1C on the Avs for a reason, and is younger, paid less, plays a more important position, and is very good defensively. Just because you haven't seen many Avalanche games doesn't mean you can determine, from hfboards, the worth of Stastny.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:01 PM
  #16
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
It's not when it's unsubstantiated. I agree Nash is one of the best powerforwards in the league. Stastny was #1C on Team USA for a reason, is #1C on the Avs for a reason, and is younger, paid less, plays a more important position, and is very good defensively. Just because you haven't seen many Avalanche games doesn't mean you can determine, from hfboards, the worth of Stastny.
What? Where did I post Stastny's alleged "value"? I must have missed that. Last time I checked you were the one making a proposal and I was the one saying no to that proposal...Don't twist words man, I have nothing against Stastny, but I would rather have Nash.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:06 PM
  #17
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsFan2342 View Post
Logic: Supposedly the Jackets want Kadri+Schenn+Kulemin+1st for Nash+3rd. My logic here is that We add MacArthur + 3rd for CBJ to upgrade pick to 2nd. MacArthur is producing more this season than Kulemin and I feel the Leafs should keep Kulemin, where as Columbus would take Mac because he is doing better than Kulemin now.

Flame away!
I'm not sure where you heard this from. What I'm hearing is that Columbus doesn't want to put a deal together with Toronto, because they have no goalies Columbus wants, and they have no interest in Schenn or Kadri.

TaketheCannoli is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:07 PM
  #18
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHockeySanctuary View Post
What? Where did I post Stastny's alleged "value"? I must have missed that. Last time I checked you were the one making a proposal and I was the one saying no to that proposal...Don't twist words man, I have nothing against Stastny, but I would rather have Nash.
You said that it was a massive overpayment and that he is not a top center in this league (and that that was a fact). In response, I substantiated why I do think he is a top center and worth a similar package to what Columbus is asking for Nash. From those arguments, I inferred your value of Stastny to be far less than what I consider his value to be.

Stastny-Jones

Kulemin-Schenn-1st-Connolly

Kulemin and Schenn for Stastny

1st-Connolly for Jones and for cap dumps.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:09 PM
  #19
Gardiner Express
#TankNation
 
Gardiner Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brampton, ON
Country: India
Posts: 1,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Nash has a cap hit of $1.2M more than Stastny, Stastny has a higher career point average but Nash scores more goals, Nash is 3 years older, Stastny plays a more valuable position, and both play with pretty bad surrounding talent. Yet Nash somehow fetches a top-six winger, a blue-chip prospect, a first, a third, and a budding shutdown D. Stastny gets an UFA with less pedigree, a 2nd, and a 5th. The only argument for this disparity is that a forty goal scorer is worth this significant price; however, the age, salary, defense, position, and points make up for this and more in my opinion.

If I were the Avs, I would think that the value of:

Stastny
Jones

for

Schenn
Kulemin
1st
Connolly

is far closer. I would probably still not pull the trigger.
wow.

Gardiner Express is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:11 PM
  #20
LickTheEnvelope
6th Overall Blows
 
LickTheEnvelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 27,850
vCash: 500
lol from a Nucks perspective i'd love the Avs to trade Stastny for a few months of Grabo.

LickTheEnvelope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #21
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
You said that it was a massive overpayment and that he is not a top center in this league (and that that was a fact). In response, I substantiated why I do think he is a top center and worth a similar package to what Columbus is asking for Nash. From those arguments, I inferred your value of Stastny to be far less than what I consider his value to be.

Stastny-Jones

Kulemin-Schenn-1st-Connolly

Kulemin and Schenn for Stastny

1st-Connolly for Jones and for cap dumps.
Never said he wasn't a "top" centre, I said he wasn't one of the best centres in the league whereas Rick Nash is probably the best PowerForward in the league.

Kesler
Sedin
Giroux
Richards x2
Backstrom
Malkin
Stamkos
Staal x2
Crosby
Spezza
Thornton
Datsyuk

Are all better than Stastny, and I just named a few off the top of my head. He is not one of the best centres in the game, simple.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #22
Pual Statsny
Overpaid, overrated
 
Pual Statsny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Awesometown
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHockeySanctuary View Post
Never said he wasn't a "top" centre, I said he wasn't one of the best centres in the league whereas Rick Nash is probably the best PowerForward in the league.

Kesler
Sedin
Giroux
Richards x2
Backstrom
Malkin
Stamkos
Staal x2
Crosby
Spezza
Thornton
Datsyuk

Are all better than Stastny, and I just named a few off the top of my head. He is not one of the best centres in the game, simple.
Prove it? I can name names, too, and I only see Datsyuk, Thornton, Spezza, Crosby (but he's not playing), E Staal, Stamkos, Malkin, Giroux, Sedin, and Kopitar as being better. This puts Stastny at the 10 or 11 spot.

Pual Statsny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:35 PM
  #23
The Hockey Life
HF Boards Partner
 
The Hockey Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leafs Nation
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeduck View Post
Prove it? I can name names, too, and I only see Datsyuk, Thornton, Spezza, Crosby (but he's not playing), E Staal, Stamkos, Malkin, Giroux, Sedin, and Kopitar as being better. This puts Stastny at the 10 or 11 spot.
Kesler? Easily one of the best 2 way centres in the league, did you forget he scored 40 Last year?

Both Richards? One is a high end scorer/playmaker and the other is a two way gritty centre who brings leadership in the locker room.

Jordan Staal is probably even, but I would take him over Stastny because of his size and defensive abilities, as well as his ability to score. We see this year with Malkin and Crosby out how Staal can really produce when playing big minutes, not to mention he's awesome on the PK


I'd even put Duchene over Stastny at this point because Duchene is going to be a powerhouse in about a year or so.

Bottom line, Stastny is a good centre, but we are not going to pay Schenn, Kulemin, Connolly AND a 1st for just a good centre. I guess we both have different views, and that's fine. You see Stastny play on a night to night basis so I can see how you have high standards for him, it is like with us Leaf fans and Grabovski, we think he is amazing, but he is no where worth the value we think he is, so i'm just going to let this one go and leave you to your thoughts. Great debate though.

The Hockey Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:38 PM
  #24
TOGuy14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,047
vCash: 500
That's a massive overpay for Nash, and an underpay for Stastny

TOGuy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #25
LeafsFan2342
#CallupColborne
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,100
vCash: 500
Ok so I edited the post, how do people feel about it now?

LeafsFan2342 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.