Anyone else think a mistake was made in breaking up the Winchester-Desjardins-Murray 4th line? That line was solid and anchored many a game while the top lines sorted themselves out. Murray may not have had a lot of production but he didn't make a lot of mistakes either.
yes and no, i loved TOM being up here. i liked what he did and brought, and the mistakes he didnt make. however, i almost like winchester/desjardins/mccarthy just as much.
i really really liked mccarthy on that line. he cycled well, could actually possess and get passes out and shot more too (i think).
i hate to say it, but i see mitchell as the odd man out. the guy is really good defensively, but that's just not quite enough.
and on the topic of the sharks not making the playoffs, its possible but not probable. havlat coming back will help our top 6 or top 9. defensively the team needs to be better. forwards/defence and goal tending, we look really slow reacting to things that should easily be tracked. greiss looked way more aware of the puck than niemi did and tracked better IMO, should get some starts against quality teams to prove himself but let niemi figure out what his problems are.
I'm not looking at any 10 game span or the recent 5 games. I'm looking at the way we've played in the New Year, i.e., the last 24 games. We have 24 games left, we have injuries and our goaltending is shaky to put it mildly. Given we will have to play better over the next 24 than we did the last 24 in order to make the playoffs, what specifically about this team right now gives you confidence that we will do so? That's all I was asking. I see it as a coin flip at the moment. The only thing that is tilting me into the 'we make it' camp is the home/away mix of the remaining games.
Because I know that pretty much every individual is better than what they've been showing. Let me put it to you this way...every player has a certain level of play that their career averages out to. Almost all of the guys are below what their average playing level is in their career. That will change. They won't all overnight turn it around just like the first half slump, it didn't all turn around overnight. That's how slumps and hot streaks work. One thing goes with or against you, then another and another until you hit that high or low point that more than likely has the whole team involved for better or for worse.
In reality, they went 12-9-3 in the last 24 that you reference. The same record puts them at 96 points which is likely enough to make the playoffs. A coin flip for them to make the playoffs is being overly dramatic. If you think that they're a .500 team even when these players turn it around, even when Havlat and Murray are healthy, and even when any potential adds come in, I don't know what to tell you except that you overreact to what is a slump. This is part of the season is.
Because I know that pretty much every individual is better than what they've been showing. Let me put it to you this way...every player has a certain level of play that their career averages out to. Almost all of the guys are below what their average playing level is in their career. That will change. They won't all overnight turn it around just like the first half slump, it didn't all turn around overnight. That's how slumps and hot streaks work. One thing goes with or against you, then another and another until you hit that high or low point that more than likely has the whole team involved for better or for worse.
In reality, they went 12-9-3 in the last 24 that you reference. The same record puts them at 96 points which is likely enough to make the playoffs. A coin flip for them to make the playoffs is being overly dramatic. If you think that they're a .500 team even when these players turn it around, even when Havlat and Murray are healthy, and even when any potential adds come in, I don't know what to tell you except that you overreact to what is a slump. This is part of the season is.
On your second part, Havlat supposedly won't be back for another 3 weeks and it remains to be seen how quickly he'll get back to game speed or if he'll have any complications. And do we even know when Murray's gonna be back?
Honestly, I don't think this is really a slump, at least when you look at the last 24 games. I think that is about what the Sharks are right now relative to the competition. We don't have enough speed, a number of our vets have slipped, our D is awful and our goaltender doesn't scare anyone. And 96 points would not have made the playoffs in the West last year, so I wouldn't view that point total as a lock. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's gonna be a dog fight down the stretch. I think a lot of people are putting too much faith in the past, without really focusing on what a mess this team is at the moment.
On your second part, Havlat supposedly won't be back for another 3 weeks and it remains to be seen how quickly he'll get back to game speed or if he'll have any complications. And do we even know when Murray's gonna be back?
Honestly, I don't think this is really a slump, at least when you look at the last 24 games. I think that is about what the Sharks are right now relative to the competition. We don't have enough speed, a number of our vets have slipped, our D is awful and our goaltender doesn't scare anyone. And 96 points would not have made the playoffs in the West last year, so I wouldn't view that point total as a lock. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's gonna be a dog fight down the stretch. I think a lot of people are putting too much faith in the past, without really focusing on what a mess this team is at the moment.
You thinking it's not a slump is all I need to know.
You thinking it's not a slump is all I need to know.
If it's a slump, it's a lonnnng one! I fear we're going to be biting our nails right to the end.
Last night's game didn't give me a ton of confidence. We pulled it out, but we got out shot, out chanced, out hit and, IMO, generally outplayed most of the game. The difference in speed in transition between the teams was evident and we just didn't generate many good scoring chances. Against a team that is 1-6-1 in its last 8 and sitting outside the playoffs at the moment. The Sharks need to play better and quickly. Nashville will be a big test.
If it's a slump, it's a lonnnng one! I fear we're going to be biting our nails right to the end.
Last night's game didn't give me a ton of confidence. We pulled it out, but we got out shot, out chanced, out hit and, IMO, generally outplayed most of the game. The difference in speed in transition between the teams was evident and we just didn't generate many good scoring chances. Against a team that is 1-6-1 in its last 8 and sitting outside the playoffs at the moment. The Sharks need to play better and quickly. Nashville will be a big test.
Funny, whenever we out shoot, out chance, and outplay another team and lose (which happens quite often), people on here don't put much stock into it because hey, a loss is a loss right? But now that it's the other way around all of a sudden it's a measuring stick for how poorly we're playing. Which one is it?
Last edited by Tkachuk4MVP: 02-24-2012 at 01:23 PM.
Not just that but the part in bold isn't true. Through 40 minutes (officially "most of the game") we outshot and outchanced them. And not coincidentally outscored them.
from my eyes their top two lines looked like 6 torrey mitchells out there. they pushed the puck into the zone and outsped us but couldnt hold on to it except for a couple of odd shifts.
we generally back checked put them into the boards and i saw once demers get completed burned for a good chance. their one goal took like 3 deflections.
i thought we were creating high quality chances in the slot all night, unlucky to not score 3 or 4.
Yeah, my point wasn't to argue about what's more important or that a win isn't a win. If you guys think that was a well played game or a dominant game by the Sharks, I think I must have missed rose colored glasses night at the Tank.
And if you think the quality of scoring chances were better, I'd refer to the play by play and suggest you scan down the shot list to see where the shots were coming from. The majority of Toronto's were coming from inside 30 feet, and the majority of the Sharks' shots were from outside 40. They had 13 shots inside of 20 feet and we had 6. I totally agree that a win is a win, but I don't agree that the Sharks showed any real improvement Thursday night. Today's game is huge IMO in terms of gauging where this team is at the moment.
I don't think we were dominant but we played a defense first game and kept them to one goal, we played for 60 minutes and I only saw two defensive mistakes that were avoidable, I'm sure there were others, but baby steps are required, and I think focusing on the negatives in a win just out of a losing streak is impatient, and probably why Chicago went nine
Yeah, my point wasn't to argue about what's more important or that a win isn't a win. If you guys think that was a well played game or a dominant game by the Sharks, I think I must have missed rose colored glasses night at the Tank.
And if you think the quality of scoring chances were better, I'd refer to the play by play and suggest you scan down the shot list to see where the shots were coming from. The majority of Toronto's were coming from inside 30 feet, and the majority of the Sharks' shots were from outside 40. They had 13 shots inside of 20 feet and we had 6. I totally agree that a win is a win, but I don't agree that the Sharks showed any real improvement Thursday night. Today's game is huge IMO in terms of gauging where this team is at the moment.
Your point is irrelevant. It's about getting the win. A team that has been struggling to find their defensive game and has been on the road for a long time is not worried about style points. They showed improvement just in the mere fact that they didn't allow 3 goals for the first time in 10 games. The reason why they've been losing isn't in the chances they get. It's in the chances they've given up and been unable to keep out of their net. The Toronto game was an improvement in that regard, plain and simple.
Your point is irrelevant. It's about getting the win.
Actually, it's about getting the wins. And my point, which you seem to be missing, has nothing to do with a single win or a single loss. It's the bigger picture - that our Sharks are a painfully average team and have been for some time now. Any improvement you think you're seeing these last few games is simply wishful thinking. But it better come quickly.
What scares me the most about the Sharks, even before the awful goaltending and porous defense, is the fact that we have lost our ability to play puck possession hockey and we don't have the speed to create good zone entry. Teams are standing us up at will because they have nothing to fear from our speed. This is why we're seeing so few quality scoring chances off the transition and it is a huge problem.
Actually, it's about getting the wins. And my point, which you seem to be missing, has nothing to do with a single win or a single loss. It's the bigger picture - that our Sharks are a painfully average team and have been for some time now. Any improvement you think you're seeing these last few games is simply wishful thinking. But it better come quickly.
What scares me the most about the Sharks, even before the awful goaltending and porous defense, is the fact that we have lost our ability to play puck possession hockey and we don't have the speed to create good zone entry. Teams are standing us up at will because they have nothing to fear from our speed. This is why we're seeing so few quality scoring chances off the transition and it is a huge problem.
I got the point, bro. If you think they're an average team, like I said, that's all I need to know about your 'opinion' on the matter. I made it a point to say that a turn around wasn't going to happen overnight. When you hold a team to one goal, you still have a winning formula that you have to stick to. And when the players don't stick to it, you have what you got in Nashville. The team knows how to play defense as they had done it for a very long time. They're simply not committed to doing it. The Shea Weber goal where Thornton got lazy is a prime example. The same goes for the first goal where White didn't switch.
The offense will come but they're not winning whether it's there or not if they don't get back to playing simple and fundamental defense.
If the Sharks miss the playoffs, I would like to see a period of rebuilding. Year after year the Sharks are in the same pattern, play well in the regular season, have peaks and valleys here or there and then lose it all in either the first, second, or conference final round. With as old as some of the players are, I wouldn't mind seeing a youth movement in San Jose in the future. Maybe it also might bring a sense of humility too as this team has been stuck in the same funk for like a decade plus.
Did a schedule comparison between Sharks, Kings, and Coyotes. Here's some important dates to circle on your calendars:
3/15 - Sharks will briefly catch up to Kings in games played
3/19 - Sharks will catch up to Kings in games played until 3/29 when Sharks will play 1 more game.
Sharks will be down to 1 game in hand on Coyotes until 3/28
3/28 - Sharks / Coyotes will even up in games played until the end of the regular season, with exception
to 4/5 when Sharks will have played 1 more game
4/3 - Sharks / Kings will even up games played until the end of the regular season
All 3 teams finish the regular season on 4/7, with Sharks/Kings playing each other
Did a schedule comparison between Sharks, Kings, and Coyotes. Here's some important dates to circle on your calendars:
3/15 - Sharks will briefly catch up to Kings in games played
3/19 - Sharks will catch up to Kings in games played until 3/29 when Sharks will play 1 more game
Sharks will be down to 1 game in hand on Coyotes until 3/28
3/28 - Sharks / Coyotes will even up in games played until the end of the regular season, with exception
to 4/5 when Sharks will have played 1 more game
4/3 - Sharks / Kings will even up games played until the end of the regular season
Doesn't really matter if you're in 11th place 4 points behind.
I got the point, bro. If you think they're an average team, like I said, that's all I need to know about your 'opinion' on the matter. I made it a point to say that a turn around wasn't going to happen overnight. When you hold a team to one goal, you still have a winning formula that you have to stick to. And when the players don't stick to it, you have what you got in Nashville. The team knows how to play defense as they had done it for a very long time. They're simply not committed to doing it. The Shea Weber goal where Thornton got lazy is a prime example. The same goes for the first goal where White didn't switch.
The offense will come but they're not winning whether it's there or not if they don't get back to playing simple and fundamental defense.
I get it. So you're saying because we held the 10th place team in the East, a team that's lost 8 of their last 10 games, to 1 goal, we've got a winning formula. Got it. And all we need is the guys to replicate that effort every night and we'll be fine.
Sorry, but this team doesn't have anything remotely resembling a winning formula, in any aspect of our game. But hey, like you said, it's just a slump. Any day now we're going to be elite again. I can feel it.
No one on this board could handle a full rebuild, look what a losing streak does to everyone. If they don't make the playoffs I think they will retool and try again. Its all you can do.
I fear we're going to be biting our nails right to the end.
