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"Aww, that's Nash-ty." Nash Rumors Part V: McKenzie says down to Rangers/Sharks

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02-23-2012, 07:20 AM
  #476
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Columbus has no leverage. None.

Backs against the wall. And the Rangers front office knows it. They're not stupid.

1. Dead last in the league after committing to Carter.

2. Asked Nash for a list of teams. Starting to burn that bridge.

3. Nash's list is exclusive.

4. Trade value sinks by the day.

5. Summer return will be significantly less.

6. Job is on the line.

Columbus isn't getting exactly what they want. But the offered package has a lot of talent in there. They'd be stupid to turn it down and take less in the summer.

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02-23-2012, 07:22 AM
  #477
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Rangers don't give a flying **** about Columbus' needs or security.

Rangers are NOT giving them Kreider.

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02-23-2012, 07:23 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Like I have been saying.

Rangers have no reason to cave in and give them Kreider. The contract dictates that. If Nash had Ryan's contract things might be different. If the Rangers trade for Nash, they'll need Kreider taking a spot in the roster at a low price.

Common sense.

Columbus can have two of our top prospects. Not our top prospect.

Same package I listed last night and got flamed for. Brooks reporting the leaked Rangers package. Same damn package.

Dubinsky, McIlrath, Thomas, 1st.

Bu bu bu Kreider doesn't hold up a dealzrr!!!111#1

Yes he does
.
Trading for Kreider is too much of a risk on Columbus' part. There's enough paranoia among some Ranger fans that Kreider is going back for one more year at BC, in hopes of becoming a UFA, (which I think is unfounded.) However, Kreider not signing in Columbus could be a very strong possibility. He has no communication with that franchise, and given their sorry history, he could easily say he wants no part of being a Blue Jacket. As much as some think that deal looks unappealing because the prospects are Thomas and McIlrath, it would look a lot worse if the deal turns out to be a late 2nd rounder in a few years as compensation because Kreider wouldn't sign in Columbus. Kreider, to me, was always a non-starter in this deal.

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02-23-2012, 07:27 AM
  #479
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If that is the deal...there is no way you don't do that. If it cones to it, sub in Erixon. Only thing that holds it up is that Columbus keeps hoim.

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02-23-2012, 07:29 AM
  #480
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I have no problem with RB's reported deal. I'm not sure how the Erixon part works, but if he is included McIlrath has to come out of the deal. Neither guy holds up the deal in my opinion, but screw Columbus, they're in a tight spot.

They created the circus, they created the situation where, if they do keep him, it will be a difficult lockerroom until the summer at the earliest. They gave Nash the big contract, with the NMC, that we will end up paying $47m on. Howson is dealing Nash for a reason. They don't want to pay Nash when they will never build a winner during his career. The want the 1st round picks so they can deal up in the event they don't win the 1st overall. Then Nail becomes the face of the franchise. Howson isn't trying to save his job, he is working on direct orders (IMO) to move Nash for the best deal available.

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02-23-2012, 07:31 AM
  #481
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Here's what I got from Larry's article.

Rangers are keeping MDZ, McD, CK and JTM

The Rangers package that will end up going to Columbus is going to be Brandon Dubinsky, Christian Thomas the 1st round pick in 2012 and Tim Erixon.

from the article:


Sather has been unwilling to include promising 20-year-old defenseman Tim Erixon who could be a call-up for the playoffs in the package going to the Blue Jackets, though Howson has expressed interest in the rookie North American pro.

Expressing interest in a certain player is pretty much every GM's tell. Howson wants Erixon in the deal instead of McIlrath as he wants an up tempo puck moving team. Erixon provides that and if he's not going to get any of the crown jewels he will get the best package possible from the Rangers.

This is the deal I have been stating will get Nash.

Dubi, Erixon, Thomas and a 1st for Nash and I believe we will juice them for some additional asset like a 2nd or a 3rd.

Monday high noon.

Get it done Sather.

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02-23-2012, 07:31 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
if thats the deal we give them, thats a better a deal then atlanta got for kovy. better deal i think even when thornton got traded to san jose. dont think columbus is getting 2 or 3 roster players because they clearly are not.

if its something like dubi,erixon,thomas, a 1st and say even a 2nd thats a very good deal for the jackets evne tho id hate to give up erixon

if its dubi erixon mcilrath thomas and a 1st thats a good deal for columbus. in fact they are lucky if they even get that much from sather.

to me seeing sather giving up 5 pieces in a deal just doesnt seem like something he would do, but he maybe inclined to do this.

bottom line i could live with anything along the likes of that. i dont want nash at any cost i want nash at the right cost aka sathers terms. knowing that kreider even miler wont be in any deal is such great news. not for 1 second myself or any of you im sure believed for 1 second that either one of mdz, mactruck, or stepan would be moved. now im getting a bit excited id say.
Marco Sturm was as young and as productive as Dubinsky when he was traded

Brad Stuart was one of the better young d-men in the game. NHL proven and coming off a career season.

Primeau was also coming off a career-best season.

It's a perfect example of selling high. At the time, the trade wasnt as lopsided as it is now because Stuart had the makings of a franchise defenseman. It just didnt turn out that way.

So at least Boston knew they were getting NHL-quality players in return on the right side of 30. Sturm was almost a 30-goal scorer in three straight seasons until getting a bad injury.

Also, Kovy was a rental. If he was locked up long term at the time of his trade, I can guarantee you that Tedenby, Josefsen and/or Zajac would have been going the other way. But then again, Waddell was a moron so who knows.


The initial outcry from hockey fans following the Thornton and Kovy trades were shock. No surprise that both Mike O'Connell and Don Waddell are no longer running NHL franchises.

If Howson deals Nash for Dubi, Thomas, Macilrath and a 25-30 overall pick, he will be vilified by the press, deemed a moron in hockey circles, and ultimately unemployed because of it.

I wouldnt want to be Dubi in Columbus. No way.

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02-23-2012, 07:34 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Columbus has no leverage. None.

Backs against the wall. And the Rangers front office knows it. They're not stupid.

1. Dead last in the league after committing to Carter.

2. Asked Nash for a list of teams. Starting to burn that bridge.

3. Nash's list is exclusive.

4. Trade value sinks by the day.

5. Summer return will be significantly less.

6. Job is on the line.

Columbus isn't getting exactly what they want. But the offered package has a lot of talent in there. They'd be stupid to turn it down and take less in the summer.
All true....Something tells me Dubinsky is absolutely coveted all around the league and GM's are willing to overlook his poor play this season simply because of his "upside"

It's almost like a Redden circa 2008 situation. Every fan outside of Ottawa thought Redden was still capable of being a No. 1, but every Sens fans would have driven him to the airport when they had a chance.

I remember asking myself....."Did Sather actually watch redden play in 2008? Why do Sens fans have the monopoly on information?"

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02-23-2012, 07:37 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
All true....Something tells me Dubinsky is absolutely coveted all around the league and GM's are willing to overlook his poor play this season simply because of his "upside"

It's almost like a Redden circa 2008 situation. Every fan outside of Ottawa thought Redden was still capable of being a No. 1, but every Sens fans would have driven him to the airport when they had a chance.

I remember asking myself....."Did Sather actually watch redden play in 2008? Why do Sens fans have the monopoly on information?"

I can almost guarantee at least four other teams that would trade for Dubi, and wouldn't even be shocked if Columbus then flipped him elsewhere - Edmonton, Phoenix, St. Louis and Toronto. Both JD and Burke have coveted him in the past, and with Maloney in Phoenix and Renney in Edmonton, Dubi would be welcome both places.

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02-23-2012, 07:42 AM
  #485
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Marco Sturm was as young and as productive as Dubinsky when he was traded

Brad Stuart was one of the better young d-men in the game. NHL proven and coming off a career season.

Primeau was also coming off a career-best season.

It's a perfect example of selling high. At the time, the trade wasnt as lopsided as it is now because Stuart had the makings of a franchise defenseman. It just didnt turn out that way.

So at least Boston knew they were getting NHL-quality players in return on the right side of 30. Sturm was almost a 30-goal scorer in three straight seasons until getting a bad injury.

Also, Kovy was a rental. If he was locked up long term at the time of his trade, I can guarantee you that Tedenby, Josefsen and/or Zajac would have been going the other way. But then again, Waddell was a moron so who knows.


The initial outcry from hockey fans following the Thornton and Kovy trades were shock. No surprise that both Mike O'Connell and Don Waddell are no longer running NHL franchises.

If Howson deals Nash for Dubi, Thomas, Macilrath and a 25-30 overall pick, he will be vilified by the press, deemed a moron in hockey circles, and ultimately unemployed because of it.

I wouldnt want to be Dubi in Columbus. No way.

I think his tenure there is just about over regardless of what happens with this trade.

The problem with comparing the Nash scenario to Kovalchuk and Thornton is that Nash has a $7.8 million cap hit with $42 million left on it. That is a lot of money for a star player to be making, and a lot of money for any organization to assume, especially before a CBA re-negotiation. And, the NMC, which limits the market for Nash suitors, which in turn, bring down the value that Columbus can expect for a return.

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02-23-2012, 07:43 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
I can almost guarantee at least four other teams that would trade for Dubi, and wouldn't even be shocked if Columbus then flipped him elsewhere - Edmonton, Phoenix, St. Louis and Toronto. Both JD and Burke have coveted him in the past, and with Maloney in Phoenix and Renney in Edmonton, Dubi would be welcome both places.
You forgot about Boston, ask any fans on this board they would love to have him. God it would be awful to see him in a Bruins jersey.

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02-23-2012, 07:47 AM
  #487
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Here's what I got from Larry's article.

Rangers are keeping MDZ, McD, CK and JTM

The Rangers package that will end up going to Columbus is going to be Brandon Dubinsky, Christian Thomas the 1st round pick in 2012 and Tim Erixon.

from the article:


Sather has been unwilling to include promising 20-year-old defenseman Tim Erixon who could be a call-up for the playoffs in the package going to the Blue Jackets, though Howson has expressed interest in the rookie North American pro.

Expressing interest in a certain player is pretty much every GM's tell. Howson wants Erixon in the deal instead of McIlrath as he wants an up tempo puck moving team. Erixon provides that and if he's not going to get any of the crown jewels he will get the best package possible from the Rangers.

This is the deal I have been stating will get Nash.

Dubi, Erixon, Thomas and a 1st for Nash and I believe we will juice them for some additional asset like a 2nd or a 3rd.

Monday high noon.

Get it done Sather.
Erixon is the negotiation point. Patrick has been scouting the Whale. There's nobody else down there pertinent to these trade discussions. Sather holds Erixon out of the deal as long as he can, and then subs in Erixon for McIlrath to get the deal done....sometime on Sunday. The Rangers want this done so they can concentrate on any other fine-tuning like acquiring a faceoff specialist or a depth D-man.

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02-23-2012, 07:49 AM
  #488
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I love Dubi as much as anybody else, but let's be honest -- he did this to himself.

I can personally justify him being traded simply by his weird season. But deep down I'll be saddened because he really was one of the few bright spots the last few seasons.

LB is right -- if they lose to the Greater Icelandic Fishstick Federation, this deal is done.

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02-23-2012, 07:50 AM
  #489
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Erixon is the negotiation point. Patrick has been scouting the Whale. There's nobody else down there pertinent to these trade discussions. Sather holds Erixon out of the deal as long as he can, and then subs in Erixon for McIlrath to get the deal done....sometime on Sunday. The Rangers want this done so they can concentrate on any other fine-tuning like acquiring a faceoff specialist or a depth D-man.
I have no problem putting Erixon in that deal to get it done.

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02-23-2012, 07:50 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Marco Sturm was as young and as productive as Dubinsky when he was traded

Brad Stuart was one of the better young d-men in the game. NHL proven and coming off a career season.

Primeau was also coming off a career-best season.

It's a perfect example of selling high. At the time, the trade wasnt as lopsided as it is now because Stuart had the makings of a franchise defenseman. It just didnt turn out that way.

So at least Boston knew they were getting NHL-quality players in return on the right side of 30. Sturm was almost a 30-goal scorer in three straight seasons until getting a bad injury.

Also, Kovy was a rental. If he was locked up long term at the time of his trade, I can guarantee you that Tedenby, Josefsen and/or Zajac would have been going the other way. But then again, Waddell was a moron so who knows.


The initial outcry from hockey fans following the Thornton and Kovy trades were shock. No surprise that both Mike O'Connell and Don Waddell are no longer running NHL franchises.

If Howson deals Nash for Dubi, Thomas, Macilrath and a 25-30 overall pick, he will be vilified by the press, deemed a moron in hockey circles, and ultimately unemployed because of it.

I wouldnt want to be Dubi in Columbus. No way.
No two ways about it.

The Bruins got fleeced in the Thornton trade.

That said, they HAD to move him.

A buddy of mine called me the night before the trade and we both said the same thing. Thornton is gone.

There was a faceoff in the Bruins zone that Thornton took. Not only did he lose the face off (which directly lead to a goal) but he got his stick knocked out of his hands like he wasn't ready or prepared to take the face off. Either that, or he had stopped caring (both my and my buddy's opinion). Based on the way he had been playing up until that point in the season, it was clear he didn;t want to be in Boston any longer. He was having a decent season, but not the type of season that was expected from him

The Bruins HAD to trade him.

They still got fleeced.

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02-23-2012, 07:51 AM
  #491
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You forgot about Boston, ask any fans on this board they would love to have him. God it would be awful to see him in a Bruins jersey.
I didn't forget, I just know that both Burke and JD have inquired about Dubi before. (JD said so during a Ranger telecast.) Heck, Holmgren asked for Dubi before they traded Forsberg to Nashville.

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02-23-2012, 07:51 AM
  #492
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Erixon is the negotiation point. Patrick has been scouting the Whale. There's nobody else down there pertinent to these trade discussions. Sather holds Erixon out of the deal as long as he can, and then subs in Erixon for McIlrath to get the deal done....sometime on Sunday. The Rangers want this done so they can concentrate on any other fine-tuning like acquiring a faceoff specialist or a depth D-man.
As much as I defended the pick, there's no way I trade Erixon instead of Mcilrath.

I'm still against a Nash trade for long-term reasons.

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02-23-2012, 07:51 AM
  #493
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Wonder if we gave them Kreider and Erixon if we could get their 1st back too o.O? Haha.

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02-23-2012, 07:53 AM
  #494
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Erixon is the negotiation point. Patrick has been scouting the Whale. There's nobody else down there pertinent to these trade discussions. Sather holds Erixon out of the deal as long as he can, and then subs in Erixon for McIlrath to get the deal done....sometime on Sunday. The Rangers want this done so they can concentrate on any other fine-tuning like acquiring a faceoff specialist or a depth D-man.
bingo.

and Sather is playing this perfectly.

He could even shock me and swap out Dylan McIlrath AND the 1st and include Erixon and a 2nd instead.

If thsi is the deal that gets Nash, I will have a new level of respect for Sather.

Dubi, Thomas, Erixon and a 2nd for Nash.

I can see that happening as well.

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02-23-2012, 07:54 AM
  #495
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Get it done Sather.
I know that you do not worry about future, but it is impossible not to discuss the cap hit. The Rangers would have 44% of their cap room eaten up by 4 players. Add to that Redden's contract summer impact and the Rangers may suddenly find themselves unable to resign their young players who are due raises.

Plus let's remember this. Loosing Dubinsky would also mean loosing some grit. And for all of his size, Nash does not go out of his way to use his body. This would be taking a step of changing the team's identity of what got them here. ALL of these players play EXACTLY the way that Torts demands. If you suddenly add a new major cog that does not identify with "defense" first, while subtracting a leader in the locker room that could upset the apple card.

If Nash wilts in NY and becomes a 6'4" version of Wolski, what then?

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02-23-2012, 07:55 AM
  #496
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No two ways about it.

The Bruins got fleeced in the Thornton trade.

That said, they HAD to move him.

A buddy of mine called me the night before the trade and we both said the same thing. Thornton is gone.

There was a faceoff in the Bruins zone that Thornton took. Not only did he lose the face off (which directly lead to a goal) but he got his stick knocked out of his hands like he wasn't ready or prepared to take the face off. Either that, or he had stopped caring (both my and my buddy's opinion). Based on the way he had been playing up until that point in the season, it was clear he didn;t want to be in Boston any longer. He was having a decent season, but not the type of season that was expected from him

The Bruins HAD to trade him.

They still got fleeced.
I agree but you also have to consider what deals O'Connell had on the table.

If that was the best deal he could get, at the time, it wasnt as bad as we see it now. Sturm and Stuart were very good players.

It's funny that no draft picks went back to Boston. GM's were obviously still in the pre-lockout mindset. No way a star player gets traded today without draft picks coming back.

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02-23-2012, 07:55 AM
  #497
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I think his tenure there is just about over regardless of what happens with this trade.

The problem with comparing the Nash scenario to Kovalchuk and Thornton is that Nash has a $7.8 million cap hit with $42 million left on it. That is a lot of money for a star player to be making, and a lot of money for any organization to assume, especially before a CBA re-negotiation. And, the NMC, which limits the market for Nash suitors, which in turn, bring down the value that Columbus can expect for a return.
Well spoken! If he had a 6 million cap hit and no NMC, it would be a completely different situation and Columbus could expect a kings ransom. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal went through, but I'm not counting on it. To me Dubi isn't the big issue in the trade, he will most likely never become a better player than Nash. I sure would miss him though. But I'd hate to loose Hagelin/McIllrath/Erixon/Thomas and then eventually see them turn into great players.

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02-23-2012, 07:55 AM
  #498
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I've been against trading for Nash from the beginning, both because I believed the cost would be prohibitive and because I felt the cap implications represented too big of a risk.

I'm still very worried about the cap implications, but if Sather can get Nash for that price, it would be hard to argue against. Keeping Erixon might be crucial if we have to trade one of Girardi or Staal down the line. He's much more likely than McIlrath to make one of them expendable in the next 2 years.

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02-23-2012, 07:57 AM
  #499
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As much as I defended the pick, there's no way I trade Erixon instead of Mcilrath.

I'm still against a Nash trade for long-term reasons.
I would. I haven't been gung-ho about getting Nash, but, Erixon is not a sticking point for me, especially when I've got Staal, MDZ and McD.

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02-23-2012, 08:01 AM
  #500
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I would. I haven't been gung-ho about getting Nash, but, Erixon is not a sticking point for me, especially when I've got Staal, MDZ and McD.
I think you're selling Erixon short.

If Erixon is anything like his dad, he'll be just as sound defensively as Staal with better offensive skills.

But I'm partial to Erixon.

Staal is still a concern simply because he's one hit away from the couch and hasn't produced consistently since he came back.

I'd rather keep Erixon in case Staal has problems.

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