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"Aww, that's Nash-ty." Nash Rumors Part V: McKenzie says down to Rangers/Sharks

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:01 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
The problem with comparing the Nash scenario to Kovalchuk and Thornton is that Nash has a $7.8 million cap hit with $42 million left on it. That is a lot of money for a star player to be making, and a lot of money for any organization to assume, especially before a CBA re-negotiation.
You are speaking a portion of my mind, Jas. See my response to PLD. As we have seen countless times, it is not everyone who can come to NY and succeed. If Nash wilts, this becomes quite an albatross of a contract. As I am seeing, the best chance for a player to be successfull in NY, is if he is brought into the team from his first few years and grows up here.

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02-23-2012, 09:02 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I've been against trading for Nash from the beginning, both because I believed the cost would be prohibitive and because I felt the cap implications represented too big of a risk.

I'm still very worried about the cap implications, but if Sather can get Nash for that price, it would be hard to argue against. Keeping Erixon might be crucial if we have to trade one of Girardi or Staal down the line. He's much more likely than McIlrath to make one of them expendable in the next 2 years.
This is exactly where I stand.

I still just want Monday to be here though.

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02-23-2012, 09:02 AM
  #503
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I know that you do not worry about future, but it is impossible not to discuss the cap hit. The Rangers would have 44% of their cap room eaten up by 4 players. Add to that Redden's contract summer impact and the Rangers may suddenly find themselves unable to resign their young players who are due raises.
This summer coming I believe they can get the guys, that are due raises, their raises.

The 2013 off season is where I concede the salary issued get a little more dicey and have held firm that keeping both Kreider and Miller will allow the Rangers to trade Gaborik at the 2013 Entry draft to free up cap space AND replenish the system of the assets lost in the Nash deal.

I think to much is being made out of a potential cap problem that hasn't happened yet. For that matter, may not happen.

Assume for a second we get Nash, the only way we have a cap problem is if no other moves are made from now until 06/30/13.

You get Nash today and that is two very legit shots at the Cup while retaining the core of the team. If I have to move Gaborik later I'm 100% fine with that.

And this is not a matter of not liking Dubi or Gaborik, it's the reality of a salary cap.

Tough choices will have to be made.

I'm good with that.

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02-23-2012, 09:04 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I agree but you also have to consider what deals O'Connell had on the table.

If that was the best deal he could get, at the time, it wasnt as bad as we see it now. Sturm and Stuart were very good players.

It's funny that no draft picks went back to Boston. GM's were obviously still in the pre-lockout mindset. No way a star player gets traded today without draft picks coming back.
agreed on all points.

Additionally if they had made it known that he was available, they probably could have gotten more. That trade pretty much came out of no where.

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02-23-2012, 09:05 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This summer coming I believe they can get the guys, that are due raises, their raises.

The 2013 off season is where I concede the salary issued get a little more dicey and have held firm that keeping both Kreider and Miller will allow the Rangers to trade Gaborik at the 2013 Entry draft to free up cap space AND replenish the system of the assets lost in the Nash deal.

I think to much is being made out of a potential cap problem that hasn't happened yet. For that matter, may not happen.

Assume for a second we get Nash, the only way we have a cap problem is if no other moves are made from now until 06/30/13.

You get Nash today and that is two very legit shots at the Cup while retaining the core of the team. If I have to move Gaborik later I'm 100% fine with that.

And this is not a matter of not liking Dubi or Gaborik, it's the reality of a salary cap.

Tough choices will have to be made.

I'm good with that.
Tough choices will have to be made, but if the Rangers do win a Cup in the next two years with Nash, those choices actually become a lot easier. The desire to hold onto someone like Gaborik to give yourself the best shot becomes lessened once you have that Cup. Remember what happened in Chicago a few years ago?

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02-23-2012, 09:06 AM
  #506
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The one naqme not listed in the Brooks artcile as untouchable is Stepan. I have also seen him in other artciles as one of Howson's main target. I think that the conversations may not be about subbing Erixon for McIlrath, but about Columbus wanting Stepan instead of Dubi. If I were Columbus and Sather took all those players and prospects off the table, I'd hang up the phone unless Stepan was part of the deal.

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02-23-2012, 09:07 AM
  #507
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this is interesting in that the Rangers acquired a Mega Star before the last CBA expired.

Hope this one goes as well or better than the last one.

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02-23-2012, 09:08 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
The one naqme not listed in the Brooks artcile as untouchable is Stepan. I have also seen him in other artciles as one of Howson's main target. I think that the conversations may not be about subbing Erixon for McIlrath, but about Columbus wanting Stepan instead of Dubi. If I were Columbus and Sather took all those players and prospects off the table, I'd hang up the phone unless Stepan was part of the deal.
Stepan is a non-starter from the Rangers POV.

He's not on the table on any level.

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02-23-2012, 09:09 AM
  #509
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this is interesting in that the Rangers acquired a Mega Star before the last CBA expired.

Hope this one goes as well or better than the last one.
Too bad we can't just give CLB Ashton Carter.

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02-23-2012, 09:11 AM
  #510
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The Rangers would be paying a significant price in giving up Dubinsky. Vermette went for a 2nd and Conditional 5th round pick which becomes a 4th if PHX has playoff success. Dubinsky is worth more than Vermette. Tuomo Ruutu re-signed for 4 years/$19M. Dubinsky has a smaller cap hit and is a better player. Teams were waiting for Carolina to swap him as a rental.

People are down on him because he has only 5 goals this season but he is a 20 goal scorer who a very good 2 way player. PK. Very good player.
He lost his PP time to Stepan.

The Rangers would be paying a big price in taking the Nash contract of Howson's hands. He moved Vermette's contract for 2 picks. He shouldn't expect more than Dubinsky,#1 pick,Thomas and another asset not on the untouchable list.

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02-23-2012, 09:13 AM
  #511
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You are speaking a portion of my mind, Jas. See my response to PLD. As we have seen countless times, it is not everyone who can come to NY and succeed. If Nash wilts, this becomes quite an albatross of a contract. As I am seeing, the best chance for a player to be successfull in NY, is if he is brought into the team from his first few years and grows up here.
In the past, TB, I'd agree. And, I won't deny that there could be cap implications. However, this team has staked out a blueprint, and are following it to a tee right now. They've built from the goal out. They've got a strong young D in front of that goalie. They've been developing quality young forwards. And, they've looked to free agency to add the right high-caliber offensive talent. If you look upthread, you'll see the interview with Schoenfeld regarding how the organization believes the majority of the pieces are in place to make this team a Cup contender, and that what is still needed is two more elite parts. Richards was the first, and now they have the opportunity to acquire the second elite part through trading from the depth they've accumulated through solid drafting and development. If the deal goes down as I think it will - Nash for Dubi/Erixon/Thomas/this year's #1, then I give Sather and team full marks for both vision and implementation of that vision.

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02-23-2012, 09:15 AM
  #512
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Too bad we can't just give CLB Ashton Carter.
would be nice

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02-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This summer coming I believe they can get the guys, that are due raises, their raises.

The 2013 off season is where I concede the salary issued get a little more dicey and have held firm that keeping both Kreider and Miller will allow the Rangers to trade Gaborik at the 2013 Entry draft to free up cap space AND replenish the system of the assets lost in the Nash deal.

I think to much is being made out of a potential cap problem that hasn't happened yet. For that matter, may not happen.

Assume for a second we get Nash, the only way we have a cap problem is if no other moves are made from now until 06/30/13.

You get Nash today and that is two very legit shots at the Cup while retaining the core of the team. If I have to move Gaborik later I'm 100% fine with that.

And this is not a matter of not liking Dubi or Gaborik, it's the reality of a salary cap.

Tough choices will have to be made.

I'm good with that.
With presence of Miller and Kreider, I also don't see the Rangers forking over big money to keep Anisimov around.

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02-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #514
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Erixon is soft, and is not some force, everyone here speaks so highly of. Its not everyday a Nash comes around, but we can always find D similar to Erixon if/when needed. We are STACKED in that area.

Packaging Erixon in a deal for Nash does not make me even think twice.

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02-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
That's a horrible deal for Nash.

10 Dubinsky's don't equal one Nash.

On top of that, the Rangers pick is going to be 25-30 range, and Thomas has had an off year compared to last season.

Neither Thomas or Mac have played a second of AHL ice time.

Dubisnky is having the worst season of his career.

If he makes that trade, he should be fired on the spot.
I agree, that's why at the end of the day one of either Erixon or C.K. have to be included, if not, Nash will get moved in the off season and the Rangers will still be looking for that elusive piece not named Parise...

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02-23-2012, 09:17 AM
  #516
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Too bad we can't just give CLB Ashton Carter.
Anson?

I know it's early

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:19 AM
  #517
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I understand the anti-Nash sentiments but this team still needs a skilled forward going into the playoffs.

Seasons like this one (so far) can easily be generational. The Rangers won the cup and the next year they were very dissappointing.

I'm not advocating Nash or Carter, but I believe staying pat is a mistake. Hoping Slats comes up with some genius here.

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:19 AM
  #518
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If the idea is that we're in the position to make a move, I don't know why Rick Nash is the name that comes up. He has negative value as an asset, there's no way he's worth 7.8 million. That's space we need to preserve for the young talent coming up. On top of that, we have to give up assets to even have the right to take on that cap hit. It would reek of desperation that we have no reason to have. Honestly, I hope we're just feigning interest in Nash so we could sweep in on someone else. I've heard names like Getzlaf, Ribeiro, and Ryan being available, players I consider pretty equal to Nash that have way better contracts.

Not to mention that it handcuffs us next offseason when there looks to be some solid pieces that could be considered.

I think we're in a better position for a rental than anything else.

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02-23-2012, 09:20 AM
  #519
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Erixon is soft, and is not some force, everyone here speaks so highly of. Its not everyday a Nash comes around, but we can always find D similar to Erixon if/when needed. We are STACKED in that area.

Packaging Erixon in a deal for Nash does not make me even think twice.
Erixon is soft today in much the same way that Lidstrom was soft his first year or two in the NHL.

He's not as gifted as Lidstrom was/is, but the soft moniker is not one that will last.

a year of seasoning (he's getting that) and 10-15 pounds of muscle and he'll be a good 2nd pairing Defenceman next season.

A potential 1st pairing guy in 2-3 years.

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02-23-2012, 09:20 AM
  #520
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The 2013 off season is where I concede the salary issued get a little more dicey and have held firm that keeping both Kreider and Miller will allow the Rangers to trade Gaborik at the 2013 Entry draft to free up cap space AND replenish the system of the assets lost in the Nash deal.
You are talking about building a Cup team and then dismantling it. And trading Gabby and his cap hit may not be that easy. And again, I cringe when it comes to Nash's makeup. He is very comfortable out of the spotlight.

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02-23-2012, 09:26 AM
  #521
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Too bad we can't just give CLB Ashton Carter.


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02-23-2012, 09:26 AM
  #522
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In the past, TB, I'd agree. And, I won't deny that there could be cap implications. However, this team has staked out a blueprint, and are following it to a tee right now. They've built from the goal out. They've got a strong young D in front of that goalie. They've been developing quality young forwards. And, they've looked to free agency to add the right high-caliber offensive talent. If you look upthread, you'll see the interview with Schoenfeld regarding how the organization believes the majority of the pieces are in place to make this team a Cup contender, and that what is still needed is two more elite parts. Richards was the first, and now they have the opportunity to acquire the second elite part through trading from the depth they've accumulated through solid drafting and development. If the deal goes down as I think it will - Nash for Dubi/Erixon/Thomas/this year's #1, then I give Sather and team full marks for both vision and implementation of that vision.
The cap hit is a dicey situation. They built this team correctly and I am loathe to see it dismantled for cap reasons.

I go back to Nash and his ability to play in the spot light. Playing as the franchise player in Columbus is NOT playing that role in NY. People see his size and think that they are getting some kind of physical beast. That he is not. He may not be Malik, but he is certainly not going to throw his weight around. And if he wilts, then the boos start and there is no reversing them. People will see a huge forward that does not use his body and take up LOTS of cap room.

I think that messing with chemistry is a tricky thing. Part of what makes this team is that everyone plays in line with what Torts wants. And he holds everyone accountable. Is Nash and his $7.8m salary really ready to follow the lead of Callahan? Is he ready to play "defense first"? Will Torts hold his mega star to the same accountability level for not thinking "defense-first" as he does with the rest of the team? Of if he does not battle the same way?

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02-23-2012, 09:29 AM
  #523
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The chances of Kreider pulling a fast one and trying to sign elsewhere go up exponentially if he was traded to Columbus.

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02-23-2012, 09:30 AM
  #524
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You are talking about building a Cup team and then dismantling it. And trading Gabby and his cap hit may not be that easy. And again, I cringe when it comes to Nash's makeup. He is very comfortable out of the spotlight.
the great thing about NY is that you can get lost in the city.

Turn down appearances, most of these guys can walk down the street in Manhattan and not get recognized.

It's not a matter of dismantling, it's a matter of managing your cap, while back filling positions by those that have departed either via free agency or because you have to make room for the youth in the system.

Nash or no Nash Gaborik is going to be done as a Ranger eithe rbefore his contract is up as I suggest or the following season.

We are not going to be the only team not affected by the ramifications of drafting well.

It's an inevitable reality.

At least in my opinion, we address the issue as opposed to letting the issue address us and we continue to fule the system while allowing the Kreiders and Millers and Stepans take over the important offensive roles on the team.

Gaborik is a Cap casualty waiting to happen.

Dead man walking so to speak (that's my Walking Dead fan speaking) lol

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02-23-2012, 09:32 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This summer coming I believe they can get the guys, that are due raises, their raises.

The 2013 off season is where I concede the salary issued get a little more dicey and have held firm that keeping both Kreider and Miller will allow the Rangers to trade Gaborik at the 2013 Entry draft to free up cap space AND replenish the system of the assets lost in the Nash deal.

I think to much is being made out of a potential cap problem that hasn't happened yet. For that matter, may not happen.

Assume for a second we get Nash, the only way we have a cap problem is if no other moves are made from now until 06/30/13.

You get Nash today and that is two very legit shots at the Cup while retaining the core of the team. If I have to move Gaborik later I'm 100% fine with that.

And this is not a matter of not liking Dubi or Gaborik, it's the reality of a salary cap.

Tough choices will have to be made.

I'm good with that.
That's just not true though. It's already been said that teams will operate under a temporary cap this summer and that most teams believe that the cap will go down in the new CBA. If the cap drops to even 62 mil next year, we could have problems.

It's been written in a million places that the owners are going to try to reduce the player portion to 50%. The NBA did it. The NFL did it. I don't have a lot of confidence that the NHLPA will win that fight. Yet I don't see there being salary rollbacks. Compliance buyouts, yes, but not rollbacks. Unfortunately, we don't have any high salaries we would want to buy out other than Redden, but he only counts against the summer cap. That won't help us going into the season.

The new CBA is a very big unknown. To just assume the cap won't drop would be foolish. We could trade for Nash and then this summer, end up having to buy out or trade someone we really don't want to lose.

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