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"Aww, that's Nash-ty." Nash Rumors Part V: McKenzie says down to Rangers/Sharks

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:33 AM
  #526
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Nash's contract is worse than Gaboriks. I don't know why replacing Gaborik's contract with Nash's would ever be a good idea. I would rather have Gaborik at what he makes over Nash at what he makes every year through the end of Gaborik's contract. Gabby is a flat out better player and makes our offense way more dangerous.

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02-23-2012, 09:37 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The cap hit is a dicey situation. They built this team correctly and I am loathe to see it dismantled for cap reasons.

I go back to Nash and his ability to play in the spot light. Playing as the franchise player in Columbus is NOT playing that role in NY. People see his size and think that they are getting some kind of physical beast. That he is not. He may not be Malik, but he is certainly not going to throw his weight around. And if he wilts, then the boos start and there is no reversing them. People will see a huge forward that does not use his body and take up LOTS of cap room.

I think that messing with chemistry is a tricky thing. Part of what makes this team is that everyone plays in line with what Torts wants. And he holds everyone accountable. Is Nash and his $7.8m salary really ready to follow the lead of Callahan? Is he ready to play "defense first"? Will Torts hold his mega star to the same accountability level for not thinking "defense-first" as he does with the rest of the team? Of if he does not battle the same way?

Chemistry is tricky, but, in that vein, don't you run the risk of ruining chemistry every time you make a move? As for cap connotations, I have to be believe that Sather, Gorton, Clark and the rest of the team have the cap mapped out for the next few years. And, as much as we as fans see sports as static, (hence the numerous what will our lines looks like in three years when prospect A is ready), GMs have go on the assumption of fluidity. The most important matter is making sure the pipeline of young talent being drafted and developed remains flowing. My example is both Dubi and Anisimov. Last year, there was no way I would believe Dubi could be dealt, but, given many different factors, one being his cap hit, he is the obvious player to be moved. Next year, when Anisimov is ready for his next contract, the Rangers will have to assess if he is an important piece going forward, or if he becomes too expensive, and a younger player, such as JT Miller would be better suited financially to take over. That's essentially what Hagelin has done to Dubi this year.

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02-23-2012, 09:38 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
Nash's contract is worse than Gaboriks. I don't know why replacing Gaborik's contract with Nash's would ever be a good idea. I would rather have Gaborik at what he makes over Nash at what he makes every year through the end of Gaborik's contract. Gabby is a flat out better player and makes our offense way more dangerous.
Because Nash is both younger and healthier.

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02-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #529
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If the idea is that we're in the position to make a move, I don't know why Rick Nash is the name that comes up. He has negative value as an asset, there's no way he's worth 7.8 million. That's space we need to preserve for the young talent coming up. On top of that, we have to give up assets to even have the right to take on that cap hit. It would reek of desperation that we have no reason to have. Honestly, I hope we're just feigning interest in Nash so we could sweep in on someone else. I've heard names like Getzlaf, Ribeiro, and Ryan being available, players I consider pretty equal to Nash that have way better contracts.
Nash's name comes up because he's one of the few guys that's actually up for grabs and he happens to address a need for a scorer. Ryan doesn't appear to be on the market and this team doesn't need any more playmaking pivots.

I'm so scared of the contract, I don't even enter into the discussions unless Howson is willing to do something off the wall, like take Redden back. I do, however, understand that you've got to kick the tires on a player like Nash if he's available and you're in the position the Rangers are in. Never hurts to shop.

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02-23-2012, 09:40 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Continue
NY Post....Sather says Kreider,Miller,Erixon,MDZ & McD are untouchable..Says is willing to send a package of Dubinsky,Thomas,McIlrath and a 1st rounder (2012)..But Sather may feel necessary to sweeten deal if NYR scoring troubles last through next few games..i dont mind that packge,but still hate Nash's cap hit,to me he is far from worth that money!!

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02-23-2012, 09:42 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The chances of Kreider pulling a fast one and trying to sign elsewhere go up exponentially if he was traded to Columbus.
Yup...I said that elsewhere. Columbus cannot risk Kreider being in the deal only to turn out to be the 49th pick in the 2014 draft.

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02-23-2012, 09:45 AM
  #532
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I agree, that's why at the end of the day one of either Erixon or C.K. have to be included, if not, Nash will get moved in the off season and the Rangers will still be looking for that elusive piece not named Parise...
You can keep saying it, but it won't make it any more or less a reality. The Rangers have drawn a line in the sand and they aren't going to cave into excessive demands. They have other deals in place if they can't get nash. It's clear that you simply don't want Nash, and that's fine.

I just want to know what you are basing this package that Nash will demand. You'll be hard pressed to find any post lockout trades for this caliber of player that have returned as much.

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02-23-2012, 09:47 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
NY Post....Sather says Kreider,Miller,Erixon,MDZ & McD are untouchable..Says is willing to send a package of Dubinsky,Thomas,McIlrath and a 1st rounder (2012)..But Sather may feel necessary to sweeten deal if NYR scoring troubles last through next few games..i dont mind that packge,but still hate Nash's cap hit,to me he is far from worth that money!!
I can't believe Miller and Erixon may prevent this deal from happening. At some point you have to give to get.

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02-23-2012, 09:47 AM
  #534
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Like I said dubi and spare parts for nash, and gabby to la for brown and a 2nd... get it done and the cup is ours, mark my words

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02-23-2012, 09:49 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by jay8899 View Post
NY Post....Sather says Kreider,Miller,Erixon,MDZ & McD are untouchable..Says is willing to send a package of Dubinsky,Thomas,McIlrath and a 1st rounder (2012)..But Sather may feel necessary to sweeten deal if NYR scoring troubles last through next few games..i dont mind that packge,but still hate Nash's cap hit,to me he is far from worth that money!!
Thats fine by me except Im still very worried about the impact of this cap hit. That said filling in the missing forwards with Erixon, Miller, Kreider, and maybe even a Wellman...well those cheap cheap contracts will certainly make it possible to swallow while guys like gabs finish out their deals gabs is better now but when Gabs contract is up I could see Nash being better

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02-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I love Dubi as much as anybody else, but let's be honest -- he did this to himself.

I can personally justify him being traded simply by his weird season. But deep down I'll be saddened because he really was one of the few bright spots the last few seasons.

LB is right -- if they lose to the Greater Icelandic Fishstick Federation, this deal is done.
that's a gem. Thank you!

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02-23-2012, 09:51 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
You can keep saying it, but it won't make it any more or less a reality. The Rangers have drawn a line in the sand and they aren't going to cave into excessive demands. They have other deals in place if they can't get nash. It's clear that you simply don't want Nash, and that's fine.

I just want to know what you are basing this package that Nash will demand. You'll be hard pressed to find any post lockout trades for this caliber of player that have returned as much.
Thank you...and go back even before the lockout, and look at what Jagr and Blake brought back. Or look at the deal for Pronger...Lupul, Smid and picks. Is Nash any better a player than either Jagr, Blake or Pronger? History again and again shows that star players do not bring back the return that fans seem to think they do. Now throw in Nash's cap hit, the money still owed him and the NMC. Nash is not going to bring the pie-in-the-sky returns that fans and journalists surmise he will.

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02-23-2012, 09:52 AM
  #538
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That rumored deal isn't all that bad, but I just don't see Nash being worth his contract. So I'm still against trading for him, no matter what the deal is.

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:54 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
I agree with you, but who is available?

You're adding another big contract, but Dubinsky is slightly overpaid. He makes the same as Nathan Horton, but has never had a 30 goal season or a 60 point season.

If you only add 3 million, then where is the colleratal damage? Especially with Wolski and Avery coming off the books this year, and Redden in a couple of seasons off of the summer cap.

The Rangers don't have to upgrade in many areas, but this happens to be one of them. They'll need give new deals to McDonagh and Del Zotto in the next few years, but I highly doubt upgrading over Dubinsky VIA Nash and adding 3 million in salary from him is really going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

The scenario you brought up with Parise is that the Rangers sign and get Parise. Then they're up against the cap because they signed Zach to a big deal. They then have to scramble to deal Dubinsky away, whose value is already at a career low, and other assets, and end up dealing them away for pennies on the dollar because every GM knows that Sather doesn't have the leverage he usually does in most trade talks. His hand is being forced.

If the rumors are true that Columbus has coveted Dubinsky for a while, then why not deal him for Nash and avoid cap hell by killing two birds with one stone and also upgrading your offense at the same time, before making possible stretch run for the cup?

The more and more I think about this, the more and more it makes sense. It makes WAY TOO MUCH sense.
Someone is always available, or will become available shortly. If this was our final hurrah I'd understand going all in at any cost. But that's obviously not where this team. I'm terrified of Nash's cap hit, bottom line. I'd rather go to war with what we have now than be strangled a year from now. Granted, that gives us 2 very good shots at winning it all, and there's something to be said for that. And perhaps you can let Gaborik walk after his contract is up. But still, there are a lot of uncertainties with the CBA. While I don't think any team will be punished for being up against it now, we just don't know how it will play out.

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02-23-2012, 09:55 AM
  #540
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Dubinsky, Thomas, McIlrath, and a first already seems like too much for me, and really makes no sense for Columbus unless they get a goalie back in another deal.

Hopefully the Rangers get 3/4 points this weekend, Sather leaves that offer on the table and CBJ refuses. Look elsewhere like Kostitsyn who won't cost high-end prospects or draft picks, or even players from the core.

Zuccarello, Bourque, 2nd round pick in 2012 for Kostitsyn. Then see what that team can do in the playoffs, and re-evaluate in the off-season if necessary where I'm sure Nash will still be on the trading block (though albeit the price will go up there in a bidding war where more teams are involved, but if the Rangers realize they need Nash, Sather wouldn't hesitate going to get him).

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02-23-2012, 09:57 AM
  #541
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I may be in the minority, but I believe the Rangers have classified Erixon as an untouchable with the way he practically forced his way to the Rangers. He wants to be here and the kid has unreal talent. He is at almost a PPG in the AHL at the same age that McDonagh was still in the NCAA.

Do people realize how tough that is? It seems like no one realizes this.....


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02-23-2012, 09:58 AM
  #542
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I was initially against the move, but I feel like things have moved past a tipping point where I have to accept that it is probably going to happen. I'm just hoping for a steal on our part.

As far as the big market/small market concerns about Nash... he's the focal point in Columbus, even more so now that Lebron is gone, and every team there is awful. In the Olympics, which I feel like Nash was unimpressive with 5 pts in 7 games playing with Crosby, there was tremendous pressure and attention.

In New York, yeah, there is a lot of coverage and attention, especially at the extreme ends of winning and losing. But like others have said, you can walk the streets or ride the subway and pretty much go unnoticed. The Rangers captured first while the Giants won the Super Bowl. Lin is grabbing the headlines now. Soon the Rangers will get buried by Yankees spring training. Unless Nash is afraid he'll get more press than the Liberty, he should be ok. And that's not even addressing the fact that he'll be the 4th or 5th most visible Ranger, probably playing on the 2nd line against the 2nd best match ups most nights.

Bottom line, he's an upgrade over Dubinsky. Sather is going to insure that the cost beyond that is minimized. We have a need and hopefully this move will address it.

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02-23-2012, 09:59 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
Like I said dubi and spare parts for nash, and gabby to la for brown and a 2nd... get it done and the cup is ours, mark my words
We're not trading our top goal scorer! LMAO, why would you trade Gabby?

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02-23-2012, 10:01 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I may be in the minority, but I believe the Rangers have classified Erixon as an untouchable with the way he practically forced his way to the Rangers. He wants to be here and the kid has unreal talent. He is at almost a PPG in the AHL at the same age that Staal and McDonagh were still in Juniors/NCAA respectively.

Do people realize how tough that is? It seems like no one realizes this.....
If I'm Columbus I'd be reluctant to acquire either Kreider or Erixon.
I could see Kreider spending another year at College and signing with the Bs instead of the CBJs. I could also see Erixon being requesting a trade after 2 years...

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02-23-2012, 10:02 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I can't believe Miller and Erixon may prevent this deal from happening. At some point you have to give to get.
But we don't NEED to get the most expensive player available every single time. The guy is paid almost 8 Million dollars per year. If you hadn't noticed we already have 3 other players on the roster making 7 or more. Do we really want to pay 36M on 4 players in a salary cap era...of which these 4 guys would account for 58% of every dollar we can spend? It's just bad management. I'm all for giving to get...when the getting makes sense. Getting Nash makes none considering the financials.

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02-23-2012, 10:02 AM
  #546
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We're not trading our top goal scorer! LMAO, why would you trade Gabby?
because i would rather have 2 top 6 fowards and cap space then 2 top 6 fowards and no space, gabby and dubi combined have 1 more point then nash and brown, and nash and brown are on down years. both nash and brown have alot more upside, and i think fit into torts system better then gabby

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02-23-2012, 10:02 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Marco Sturm was as young and as productive as Dubinsky when he was traded

Brad Stuart was one of the better young d-men in the game. NHL proven and coming off a career season.

Primeau was also coming off a career-best season.

It's a perfect example of selling high. At the time, the trade wasnt as lopsided as it is now because Stuart had the makings of a franchise defenseman. It just didnt turn out that way.

So at least Boston knew they were getting NHL-quality players in return on the right side of 30. Sturm was almost a 30-goal scorer in three straight seasons until getting a bad injury.

Also, Kovy was a rental. If he was locked up long term at the time of his trade, I can guarantee you that Tedenby, Josefsen and/or Zajac would have been going the other way. But then again, Waddell was a moron so who knows.


The initial outcry from hockey fans following the Thornton and Kovy trades were shock. No surprise that both Mike O'Connell and Don Waddell are no longer running NHL franchises.

If Howson deals Nash for Dubi, Thomas, Macilrath and a 25-30 overall pick, he will be vilified by the press, deemed a moron in hockey circles, and ultimately unemployed because of it.

I wouldnt want to be Dubi in Columbus. No way.
i agree i was just basing those types of offers considering it seems its down to sj and nyr and dreger saying all offers are in and it up to howson. so was just assuming every1 lowballed him including us but ours could be the highest lowball.

fact is any superstar that was ever traded never got back a big package or it was much less than anticipated which is prob what will happen here if it happens. he may be able to get a mammoth deal in the offseason but then again maybe not. who knows. i just think a big key factor is howson has no leverage whatsoever except he doesnt have to trade him right away and most teams will accept that if hes asking for the sky and the moon. i know i will.

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02-23-2012, 10:03 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I love Dubi as much as anybody else, but let's be honest -- he did this to himself.

I can personally justify him being traded simply by his weird season. But deep down I'll be saddened because he really was one of the few bright spots the last few seasons.

LB is right -- if they lose to the Greater Icelandic Fishstick Federation, this deal is done.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...dividends.html

This is a great article, and though it is really focusing on players who signed UFA contracts with a new team, I think the same could be argued for Dubi. That said, if what you mean by "he did it to himself" refers to how much money he demanded/held out for, then your point definitely still stands. If you are referring to his offensive output, it is my opinion that next year, once he has settled down, we'll see the same numbers from him we have in the past - though of course I could be wrong, just an opinion.

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02-23-2012, 10:04 AM
  #549
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http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...NAME=&tw_p=twt

this is exactly the type of offer I am ok with. I know its a big contract but lets say CLB takes this deal:
Nash and Pahlsson
for
Dubinsky, Wolski, Zuccarello, Thomas, McIlrath, 1st, may later picks too

Ranger lineup going into the playoffs is
Nash, Richards, Callahan
Anisimov, Stepan, Gaborik
Hagelin, Boyle, Prust
Rupp, Pahlsson, Fedotenko
Mitchell

G and D the same

guys, that team can win it all

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02-23-2012, 10:05 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Dubinsky, Thomas, McIlrath, and a first already seems like too much for me, and really makes no sense for Columbus unless they get a goalie back in another deal.

Hopefully the Rangers get 3/4 points this weekend, Sather leaves that offer on the table and CBJ refuses. Look elsewhere like Kostitsyn who won't cost high-end prospects or draft picks, or even players from the core.

Zuccarello, Bourque, 2nd round pick in 2012 for Kostitsyn. Then see what that team can do in the playoffs, and re-evaluate in the off-season if necessary where I'm sure Nash will still be on the trading block (though albeit the price will go up there in a bidding war where more teams are involved, but if the Rangers realize they need Nash, Sather wouldn't hesitate going to get him).
The rumor is that they'd send Carter to LA for Bernier +.

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