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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread VI

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Old
02-24-2012, 04:05 PM
  #176
TheDevilMadeMe
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02-24-2012, 04:07 PM
  #177
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The reason I traded down here was to take a coach. My top 2 choices went in Babcock and Burns but I'll take a coach who had lots of success with Mark Messier in the past.

The Garnish Dragons with Pick 450 select Head Coach Glen "Slats" Sather



Some stats on Sather:

- Career Coaching Record of 497-307-121-7 (Regular Season) 89-37-1 (Playoffs)
- 4 Stanley Cup Wins
- 1986 Jack Adams Trophy Winner
- Elected to Hall of Fame in 1997

For more on Sather click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...page=bio&list=

I've notified Hawkey Town 18 that he's up.

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02-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #178
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Completed Harry Hyland bio:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=130

Basically everything we've got on him that's available on the internet is in there. I couldn't find much.
For the record, I doubt there is anything substantial in books, either. I can't think of a single book I own that would say anything more than stock info.

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02-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #179
Hawkey Town 18
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With the 451st pick the Chicago Shamrocks select Doug Weight, C

Weight will center our 4th line where he will bring good playmaking skills and some grit. He will also possibly play the point on the 2nd PP unit.



PMing next GM

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02-24-2012, 05:05 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
The reason I traded down here was to take a coach. My top 2 choices went in Babcock and Burns but I'll take a coach who had lots of success with Mark Messier in the past.

The Garnish Dragons with Pick 450 select Head Coach Glen "Slats" Sather



Some stats on Sather:

- Career Coaching Record of 497-307-121-7 (Regular Season) 89-37-1 (Playoffs)
- 4 Stanley Cup Wins
- 1986 Jack Adams Trophy Winner
- Elected to Hall of Fame in 1997

For more on Sather click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...page=bio&list=

I've notified Hawkey Town 18 that he's up.
Good pick for an offensive-minded team. Considering where Bob Johnson went, you got something of a steal (is there any reason to think one of those two is better than the other? I can't see it).

But how on Earth do you go from wanting Pat "when in doubt, off the glass and out" Burns to run-and-gun Glen Sather? heh

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02-24-2012, 05:06 PM
  #181
seventieslord
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DaveG: I honestly don't mean to pick on you and as you know, this isn't even the player I referred to earlier, but is there any argument right now to take Staal over Weight? (in a vaccuum, that is - I realize one is a goal scoring center and the other is a playmaker)

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02-24-2012, 05:07 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
DaveG: I honestly don't mean to pick on you and as you know, this isn't even the player I referred to earlier, but is there any argument right now to take Staal over Weight? (in a vaccuum, that is - I realize one is a goal scoring center and the other is a playmaker)
Size. Staal is significantly larger than Weight, and that might make him a better fit for a 4th line.

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02-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #183
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The Whalers select Terry O'Reilly, RW, to take care of the opposing fans and troll the opposing teams with bad memes:




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02-24-2012, 05:12 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
The Garnish Dragons with Pick 450 select Head Coach Glen "Slats" Sather



That is all.

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02-24-2012, 05:27 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post



That is all.
But, I mean, if you wanted him THAT badly, you’d have taken him by now, right? You had to know he’s usually gone by now.

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02-24-2012, 05:38 PM
  #186
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Completed Fred Stanfield bio:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=131

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02-24-2012, 05:40 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
DaveG: I honestly don't mean to pick on you and as you know, this isn't even the player I referred to earlier, but is there any argument right now to take Staal over Weight? (in a vaccuum, that is - I realize one is a goal scoring center and the other is a playmaker)
Actually Weight was my second choice for the last pick I'll be the first to admit I had them damn close. As well as the other guy we discussed and a couple others falling right behind those two.

Staal, in a 7 season career, has as many 70+ point seasons as Weight has in a 19 season career. In terms of grit they're prettymuch a wash though Staal has been the more durable of the two. Staal has the better playoff record of the two by a slight margin (43 in 43 vs 72 in 97). Weight does have the edge in seasons of 80+ points (3 to 2), though both have the same number of PPG+ seasons. Similar international records with both having the one big tournament (96 World Cup for Weight vs 2012 Olympics for Staal). Staal is a bit more versatile of the two, having played wing for the Olympic team and on the point on the Canes 2006 cup run. Ironically enough, Weight and Staal were typically on the same PP unit during that run.

As you mentioned, both are two different versions of the same type of player. Staal more the goal scoring type vs Weight the playmaker. I think that does give Staal more an overall edge though, as he'd be more apt to carry a line on his own. Most importantly, Staal just has shown an ability to outright take over a playoff series offensively at times through use of his size and strength. To this point he's the only player I've seen able to push Chara around for a 7 game series, and he's done it to multiple other teams as well, just ask TDMM (sorry, I had to go there to make the point).

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02-24-2012, 05:41 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
But, I mean, if you wanted him THAT badly, you’d have taken him by now, right? You had to know he’s usually gone by now.
I had wanted him in Madden's spot but decided to try and wait until next pick.. it is actually difficult trying to plan when having to wait 60 choices between picks, you know.

I was hoping to get Sather but ah well.. coaches are a little like goalies in this haha

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02-24-2012, 05:47 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Actually Weight was my second choice for the last pick I'll be the first to admit I had them damn close. As well as the other guy we discussed and a couple others falling right behind those two.

Staal, in a 7 season career, has as many 70+ point seasons as Weight has in a 19 season career. In terms of grit they're prettymuch a wash though Staal has been the more durable of the two. Staal has the better playoff record of the two by a slight margin (43 in 43 vs 72 in 97). Weight does have the edge in seasons of 80+ points (3 to 2), though both have the same number of PPG+ seasons. Similar international records with both having the one big tournament (96 World Cup for Weight vs 2012 Olympics for Staal). Staal is a bit more versatile of the two, having played wing for the Olympic team and on the point on the Canes 2006 cup run. Ironically enough, Weight and Staal were typically on the same PP unit during that run.

As you mentioned, both are two different versions of the same type of player. Staal more the goal scoring type vs Weight the playmaker. I think that does give Staal more an overall edge though, as he'd be more apt to carry a line on his own. Most importantly, Staal just has shown an ability to outright take over a playoff series offensively at times through use of his size and strength. To this point he's the only player I've seen able to push Chara around for a 7 game series, and he's done it to multiple other teams as well, just ask TDMM (sorry, I had to go there to make the point).
When looking at raw numbers it should be noted that several of Weight's best seasons were in the dead puck era, and none of Staal's were.

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02-24-2012, 05:51 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
When looking at raw numbers it should be noted that several of Weight's best seasons were in the dead puck era, and none of Staal's were.
Oh absolutely. The 2000-01 season in particular is impressive in that regard since that was right at the height of the dead puck era. But in 96 and to a lesser extent 97 the dead puck era was just starting up, it wasn't nearly as bad as it was for the 01 season (strictly IMO).

Though aside from the 06 season (which let's face it, that was a career year for a lot of guys because of how they called the games) it's not like this era is the 80s or early 90s in terms of offense either.

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02-24-2012, 05:54 PM
  #191
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Oh absolutely. The 2000-01 season in particular is impressive in that regard since that was right at the height of the dead puck era. But in 96 and to a lesser extent 97 the dead puck era was just starting up, it wasn't nearly as bad as it was for the 01 season (strictly IMO).

Though aside from the 06 season (which let's face it, that was a career year for a lot of guys because of how they called the games) it's not like this era is the 80s or early 90s in terms of offense either.
I would call 1997-98 the first year of the DPE

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02-24-2012, 06:01 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I would call 1997-98 the first year of the DPE
That's what I typically regard it as as well (FWIW Weight had 70 in 79 that season which is pretty dang strong). DPE was in full swing in 98, there were simply a few teams that used it (to great effect) in 96 and a few more in 97.

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02-24-2012, 06:03 PM
  #193
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I was hoping to get Sather but ah well.. coaches are a little like goalies in this haha
In a way - you do only need one head coach just like you only need one starting dd goalie.

But a goalie does what he does - stops puck, just to varying degrees. Sure, there are goalies with quirks - Brodeur can puckhandle, Fuhr is experienced at backing up a run-and-gun team, Belfour likes shot blockers while Hasek doesn't. But for the most part, a goalie is just stopping the puck.

Your head coach determines the way all your players play. There's a huge difference between the way a Glen Sather team will play and the way a Pat Burns team will play, even if they probably rank close to each other on the totem poll of coaches.

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02-24-2012, 06:06 PM
  #194
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To this point he's the only player I've seen able to push Chara around for a 7 game series, and he's done it to multiple other teams as well, just ask TDMM (sorry, I had to go there to make the point).
Scott Stevens would have creamed Staal if he tried that standing in front of the net with 5 seconds left crap. Bryce Salvador gave him a love tap...

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02-24-2012, 06:09 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Comments:

- There’s probably no turning back now, but I’m really concerned about Stanfield as a LW. He appears to have been a center for almost his entire career, nothing in your bio seems to change that, and we know that he was in all the offensive seasons that we’d consider significant in the ATD – the ones spent with Bucyk in Boston. How effective can he be in this role? (I will still be checking my scouting reports for you)
- That quote about penalty killing is useless considering his career average is 9% usage – which is not the least bit significant.

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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Actually Weight was my second choice for the last pick I'll be the first to admit I had them damn close. As well as the other guy we discussed and a couple others falling right behind those two.

Staal, in a 7 season career, has as many 70+ point seasons as Weight has in a 19 season career. In terms of grit they're prettymuch a wash though Staal has been the more durable of the two. Staal has the better playoff record of the two by a slight margin (43 in 43 vs 72 in 97). Weight does have the edge in seasons of 80+ points (3 to 2), though both have the same number of PPG+ seasons. Similar international records with both having the one big tournament (96 World Cup for Weight vs 2012 Olympics for Staal). Staal is a bit more versatile of the two, having played wing for the Olympic team and on the point on the Canes 2006 cup run. Ironically enough, Weight and Staal were typically on the same PP unit during that run.

As you mentioned, both are two different versions of the same type of player. Staal more the goal scoring type vs Weight the playmaker. I think that does give Staal more an overall edge though, as he'd be more apt to carry a line on his own. Most importantly, Staal just has shown an ability to outright take over a playoff series offensively at times through use of his size and strength. To this point he's the only player I've seen able to push Chara around for a 7 game series, and he's done it to multiple other teams as well, just ask TDMM (sorry, I had to go there to make the point).
A few notes:

- Weight had 37 points in his first 47 playoff games which took him to age 30. Most of those games were in the DPE. I can’t say for sure how that translates to a post-lockout scoring environment, but it appears his playoff offense is close. I wouldn’t say that playing 50 more playoff games from age 31-37 and scoring 35 more points gives him a worse playoff record when it’s something Staal isn’t even old enough to have done. I also wouldn’t say with certainty that making the playoffs twice is a “better playoff record”, part of not making it is on him.
- In terms of adjusted points, just because their eras weren’t completely the same: Staal’s best years are 98, 89, 82, 75, 75, 71. Weight’s are 100, 97, 86, 80, 78, 75 (plus 75, 69, 67, 60). In raw point production it appears Weight has the edge, but more of Staal’s points are goals, so you could say Staal has about an equal peak and that would be fair, but Weight has put up more good seasons in addition.
- You’re right that he has wing potential. Also about his play against Chara in the playoffs. Not to mention that clutch goal in 2009 against Jersey.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
I had wanted him in Madden's spot but decided to try and wait until next pick.. it is actually difficult trying to plan when having to wait 60 choices between picks, you know.
Indeed

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02-24-2012, 06:09 PM
  #196
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In a way - you do only need one head coach just like you only need one starting dd goalie.

But a goalie does what he does - stops puck, just to varying degrees. Sure, there are goalies with quirks - Brodeur can puckhandle, Fuhr is experienced at backing up a run-and-gun team, Belfour likes shot blockers while Hasek doesn't. But for the most part, a goalie is just stopping the puck.

Your head coach determines the way all your players play. There's a huge difference between the way a Glen Sather team will play and the way a Pat Burns team will play, even if they probably rank close to each other on the totem poll of coaches.
I mean more like there is way more supply than demand when we only need 32 head coaches.

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02-24-2012, 06:10 PM
  #197
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Scott Stevens would have creamed Staal if he tried that standing in front of the net with 5 seconds left crap. Bryce Salvador gave him a love tap...
to which play are you referring?

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02-24-2012, 06:23 PM
  #198
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to which play are you referring?
Game 2 NJ vs Carolina in 2006

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Originally Posted by ESPN
New Jersey appeared on its way to a victory in regulation when Scott Gomez deflected in a shot from Zach Parise with 20 seconds remaining. Carolina defenseman Mike Commodore, who was stride-for-stride with Gomez, also got his stick on the puck before it skittered by Ward for a 2-1 lead.

"I could hear it hit both posts," Ward said. "It would have been a tough break to end it that way, but we made sure it didn't happen."

The Devils hardly had completed their celebration when the Hurricanes tied it again, when Eric Staal took a nifty backhanded pass from Justin Williams to beat Brodeur with only 3 seconds on the clock.
Carolina won in OT to go up 2-0 in the series. If NJ wins that game(and they would have if they had just knocked Staal on his butt; dude was standing right in front of the net for seconds before the puck came to him), they tie the series at 1 with games 3 and 4 at home. Instead they go home down 2-0.

I assumed that's what Dave meant by Staal outmuscling NJ.

NJ has sucked against large forwards since Stevens retired. Even in 2004 when they had the Norris winner Niedermayer, the Flyers forwards dominated them physically, when it had always been the reverse when Stevens was in the lineup.

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02-24-2012, 06:24 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Comments:

- There’s probably no turning back now, but I’m really concerned about Stanfield as a LW. He appears to have been a center for almost his entire career, nothing in your bio seems to change that, and we know that he was in all the offensive seasons that we’d consider significant in the ATD – the ones spent with Bucyk in Boston. How effective can he be in this role? (I will still be checking my scouting reports for you)
- That quote about penalty killing is useless considering his career average is 9% usage – which is not the least bit significant.
I didn't plan on using Stanfield on my PK units because of his numbers, just threw the quote in there for completeness. It's looking like I'm going to have Stanfield at center with Hyland as his RW, and Linden will move to the 4th line. Then I'll likely draft the LW for that line with my next pick at 466. This move will also allow Linden to be a much more effective player because when he was at RW, he had his best offensive seasons and was a much more physical player. It was when he became a center that he scored less, and focused more on defense than offense.

Quote:
Linden, a natural right winger, was shifted to center ice later in his career in Vancouver and has played there ever since. He excelled on face-offs and is usually in sound defensive position, but the move changed his game immensely. He was much more physical on right wing. Moving up and down the wall, Linden excelled by hitting and banging. He was always at his best when he is playing physically. However at center ice, Linden did not get the chance to play the same physical game, as he remained disciplined and rarely strays from the middle of the ice, so that he was not caught out of position should the other team get the puck. This defensive discipline also hurts Trevor's offensive output. He no longer drove to the net as hard as he would if he were on the wing, again sacrificing his offensive output so that someone remains high to help out the defensemen.
http://canuckslegends.blogspot.com/2...or-linden.html

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02-24-2012, 06:31 PM
  #200
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I didn't plan on using Stanfield on my PK units because of his numbers, just threw the quote in there for completeness. It's looking like I'm going to have Stanfield at center with Hyland as his RW, and Linden will move to the 4th line. Then I'll likely draft the LW for that line with my next pick at 466. This move will also allow Linden to be a much more effective player because when he was at RW, he had his best offensive seasons and was a much more physical player. It was when he became a center that he scored less, and focused more on defense than offense.



http://canuckslegends.blogspot.com/2...or-linden.html
I have Linden as a RW for his first 6 seasons, so yeah, that covers most of his best offensive seasons (the next two are his best and 5th-best)

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