The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
I think one of the problems with the NHL is it's hard to market players
One problem in marketing on a local scale is "the foreign millionaire factor". It's kind of hard to get people to support a game between "our foreign millionaires", and "their foreign millionaires". Most NHL players are either Canadians or Europeans, i.e. "foreign millionaires" as far as Americans are concerned.
But the NBA doesn't have this problem at all. Mavs have no problem marketing Dirk. Rockets had no problem marketing Yao Ming. Teams that had Gasol had no problem marketing him either. All are "foreign millionaries" as far as Americans are concerned, but are/were easy to market.
__________________
2011: Outcoached by Vigneault. 2012: Outcoached all season and postseason by Hitch.
2013: Outcoached by most coaches in the NHL. Who's left? 12 year olds on Xbox Live? SACK T-MAC NOW
We've had this conversation for decades in hockey circles, only back in the day people used to wonder about a "black Gretzky" suddenly raising the game's profile in the African American community. Now it's a southern Gretzky or whatever... to that I say: how much has Bobby Ryan having grown up in SoCal helped the Ducks?
We've had this conversation for decades in hockey circles, only back in the day people used to wonder about a "black Gretzky" suddenly raising the game's profile in the African American community. Now it's a southern Gretzky or whatever... to that I say: how much has Bobby Ryan having grown up in SoCal helped the Ducks?
No, it's still a "black Gretzky" thing, even if that term isn't used anymore. And it's not just to raise the game's profile in the A-A community. Tiger Woods (who btw, is more Asian than black, but identified as black in American media) raised golf's profile for everyone in the US, not just African-Americans.
The NHL could use a black Tiger Woods of hockey, a "black Sidney Crosby," if you will. Wouldn't just increase the profile of the game in the African American Community, but America as a whole. (And no, Afro-Canadian doesn't count, as nobody in America outside of hockey fans knows who Iginla is)
If Steven Stamkos were black and American, the NHL would be a lot more popular than it is right now in the US. Sad, but true.
Aside: The US is only 12% black, but black culture is a huge part of the fabric of American culture, much more than you would expect to come from 12% of the population.
Is that serious? If basketball is that unpopular in Toronto, the Raptors will eventually end up leaving like the Grizzlies did.
I do find it interesting that American NBA players don't want to play in Canada, leaving the Raptors to bring over a bunch of Europeans. Toronto will never be able to compete for the best players when they all want to stay in their own country.
No. Basketball is reasonably popular in Toronto. The Raptors are 19th in attendance ranking for 2010-2011, and are 10th in franchise valuation at approximately $399 million (2011 Forbes valuation figures). To put it in perspective, the Leafs - 1st in franchise valuation in the NHL - are valued at $521 million.
Consider that the Raptors lost Chris Bosh and are playing horrible.
If the Raptors become a playoff contender once again, they will have numerous sellouts and will legitimately be a top 5-10 basketball market in the world -- behind LA, NYC, Chicago, Boston and perhaps Dallas.
If you equated the Raptors' attendance and valuation to their piss poor performance, I'm quite certain it'd demonstrate that the Raptors have a large and loyal fanbase.
Yes, the Raptors are not like the Leafs -- they won't sell out every game if they play piss poor. But despite such poor performance, the Raptors remain reasonably popular in Toronto.
It's not the problem with the NHL, but rather the problem with people in general.
I've always found folks infatuation with an individual frustrating.... It's just that the masses are too ignorant to understand what it takes in chemistry and an all out group effort to be effective in this.. the greatest game on earth, to appreciate it for just that.
Fortunately for the good of the game, ignorance is overcome with time.
No, it's still a "black Gretzky" thing, even if that term isn't used anymore. And it's not just to raise the game's profile in the A-A community. Tiger Woods (who btw, is more Asian than black, but identified as black in American media) raised golf's profile for everyone in the US, not just African-Americans.
The NHL could use a black Tiger Woods of hockey, a "black Sidney Crosby," if you will. Wouldn't just increase the profile of the game in the African American Community, but America as a whole. (And no, Afro-Canadian doesn't count, as nobody in America outside of hockey fans knows who Iginla is)
If Steven Stamkos were black and American, the NHL would be a lot more popular than it is right now in the US. Sad, but true.
Aside: The US is only 12% black, but black culture is a huge part of the fabric of American culture, much more than you would expect to come from 12% of the population.
Speaking of black players, some people may wonder about the lineup of the Winnipeg Jets, up in "the great white north". Remember that last year they were the Atlanta Thrashers, who were trying to appeal to the local market. That's why the Jets have players like...
Marketing players over the league or even teams is a mistake to begin with. Look at the NBA if you want to see what not to do and then look at the NFL promoting the *NFL* first and foremost if you want to see how to thrive.
It's not hard to market... geez. They just don't know how to do it.
I mean, remove Crosby and Ovechkin, which other player is always present in ads? Barely none. Even in the local market, if you don't follow hockey hardcore style, you could barely recognize that 3rd liner player.
They need to go back at the root of the "myNHL" campaign and remake it into something broader. Stop selling the game with only two players. There's two or three superstar for every team and they should have the same exposure, or just a bit less, than Crosvechkin.
I'd say, marketing players is only part of the equation. We mustn't fool ourselves, we have enough parity so that, by trade deadline (roughly 3/4 of the season), even bottom-feeders can still hope to make the playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhounds
Best way to market the league is to market the game, not the players.
If the game's not exciting, it doesn't matter who the players are.
Besides, there was a study a few years ago, that concluded that stars on the visiting team didn't usually play a large role in interest or attendance at the games.
It's not so much how often players score than what scoring chances there are. There may very well be a very exciting scoring chance but that chance ended in a highlight reel save.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr
So hockey's problem is that most of the players of note don't have big egos. It may be true, but...
That should help to win over some fans... at least hockey players are more like the average Joe with respect to their lifestyle and personality than in the other 3 sports.
Is that serious? If basketball is that unpopular in Toronto, the Raptors will eventually end up leaving like the Grizzlies did.
I do find it interesting that American NBA players don't want to play in Canada, leaving the Raptors to bring over a bunch of Europeans. Toronto will never be able to compete for the best players when they all want to stay in their own country.
The two reasons why american players don't want to play in canada is because they get hit by revenue canada & the IRS.
The two reasons why american players don't want to play in canada is because they get hit by revenue canada & the IRS.
A third is because if they grew up in Tennessee, or California or Florida or just about anywhere else in the USA, they simply don't want to leave the country to play. They have a 29 in 30 chance of staying in their own country and when they get drafted by "Canada" they don't want to play there.
Remember the Vancouver Grizzlies picking Steve Francis? That piece of video was an absolute classic.
The two reasons why american players don't want to play in canada is because they get hit by revenue canada & the IRS.
That's part of it, though it goes a lot deeper than that... Canada offers them very limited exposure. A side effect of the marketing style we're discussing is a major desire for those star players to increase their celebrity... and there's no huge shoe deal for the guys who only play on ESPN a couple of times a year. Vince Carter was a cautionary tale to most players... if he'd been anywhere else in the NBA he would have been the biggest star in the league. But in Toronto he was nothing more than a name to American audiences.
I don't think it's all quite as jingoistic as a lot of Canadians like to make it, surveys show that NBA players love going to Toronto. They just don't want to ply their trade on TSN instead of ESPN. Notice how guys like Pinball Clemons have no issue with living in Toronto.
Speaking of black players, some people may wonder about the lineup of the Winnipeg Jets, up in "the great white north". Remember that last year they were the Atlanta Thrashers, who were trying to appeal to the local market. That's why the Jets have players like...
Evander Kane
Dustin Byfuglien
Johnny Oduya
Here I always thought it was the great white north because of the winter snow.
Vince Carter was a cautionary tale to most players... if he'd been anywhere else in the NBA he would have been the biggest star in the league. But in Toronto he was nothing more than a name to American audiences.
...and an excellent example. Vince simply would realize his full earnings potential playing out his career on Alien Shores.
Market the rivalries (divisional or otherwise); I'm sure that Vancouver-Chicago, Detroit-Toronto or Montreal-Boston games can draw a good amount of viewers if well-marketed. It is riskier but, if it works, fans will want to see entire teams rather than just a handful of players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeypuck2012
The two reasons why american players don't want to play in canada is because they get hit by revenue canada & the IRS.
Unless you are a player who thrive in pressure-free environments and, in a basketball context, Toronto is one such market. Every sport has its share of players who reach for the pressure-free cities come free agency time. I call such players "pressure-dodgers"; HF makes it seem like the pressure-dodgers are far more common in hockey than they are in the other sports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie
That's part of it, though it goes a lot deeper than that... Canada offers them very limited exposure. A side effect of the marketing style we're discussing is a major desire for those star players to increase their celebrity... and there's no huge shoe deal for the guys who only play on ESPN a couple of times a year. Vince Carter was a cautionary tale to most players... if he'd been anywhere else in the NBA he would have been the biggest star in the league. But in Toronto he was nothing more than a name to American audiences.
I don't think it's all quite as jingoistic as a lot of Canadians like to make it, surveys show that NBA players love going to Toronto. They just don't want to ply their trade on TSN instead of ESPN. Notice how guys like Pinball Clemons have no issue with living in Toronto.
The problem with the Raptors is not so much how attractive the city is (Charlotte, for instance, is far more unappealing in a basketball context IMO, climate aside) but that the Raptors don't exactly offer a winning environment. If the Raptors had a winning environment to offer, I'm sure that Toronto would attact better free agents than what they can scrape together today. But they'd get the best of the "pressure-dodgers" (or European players, otherwise) then.
Even when the Raptors were reasonably good back in the early aughts, they had trouble attracting free agents to compliment Carter They were like the LeBron Cavs
Speaking of black players, some people may wonder about the lineup of the Winnipeg Jets, up in "the great white north". Remember that last year they were the Atlanta Thrashers, who were trying to appeal to the local market. That's why the Jets have players like...
Marketing players over the league or even teams is a mistake to begin with. Look at the NBA if you want to see what not to do and then look at the NFL promoting the *NFL* first and foremost if you want to see how to thrive.
You sure about that? The NHL would kill to get the publicity Jeremy Lin has had the last few weeks. As to the NFL, think Tebow for indiv player marketing, although I agree that the NFL markets teams more than anything, but most sports teams in America market its players.
I think that many Americans simply do not understand hockey enough at this point to jump on it full force. I agree with the person that said they should market team rivalries and the violence, the fighting, the hits, the brawls of yesteryear. It's what made hockey unique and I think more Americans like violence. I don't think the NHL needs to "clean up the game" all that much. They should try to find a happy medium that still adheres to its roots. The crowds always get into a game with some conflict between the whistles. The 80s were high scoring and much more "violent" than today's NHL relatively speaking.
You sure about that? The NHL would kill to get the publicity Jeremy Lin has had the last few weeks. As to the NFL, think Tebow for indiv player marketing, although I agree that the NFL markets teams more than anything, but most sports teams in America market its players.
Quarterbacks get a huge amount of coverage. I don't follow the NFL that much but even I know most of the starting QBs from last season. And then receivers get a lot of a coverage from replays and discussions.
As for the NBA, even if the NHL had a guy like Jeremy Lin it still wouldn't be nearly as big in the U.S. or in Asia because of the lack of popularity for the game. Contrast that to basketball where most kids have access to basketball courts through a nearby park or their school.
I think that many Americans simply do not understand hockey enough at this point to jump on it full force. I agree with the person that said they should market team rivalries and the violence, the fighting, the hits, the brawls of yesteryear. It's what made hockey unique and I think more Americans like violence. I don't think the NHL needs to "clean up the game" all that much. They should try to find a happy medium that still adheres to its roots. The crowds always get into a game with some conflict between the whistles. The 80s were high scoring and much more "violent" than today's NHL relatively speaking.
Based on my VERY non-scientific findings, it's generally folks w/o money that crave the violence. In fact, I find most sports fans (who are not hockey fans and actually have money) think the fact that they let them fight shows a complete lack of discipline and honor and is therefor NOT FOR THEM.
We can choose to market to the poor or the wealthy.... I think it's a no-brainer.
Based on my VERY non-scientific findings, it's generally folks w/o money that crave the violence. In fact, I find most sports fans (who are not hockey fans and actually have money) think the fact that they let them fight shows a complete lack of discipline and honor and is therefor NOT FOR THEM.
We can choose to market to the poor or the wealthy.... I think it's a no-brainer.
Ah, yes. Let's change the game to suit the tastes of wealthy individuals in southern markets. That will help the league's image in Canada.
canadian players aren't really seen of as foreign, unless they're from saskatoon and say aboot and eh in every sentence. you can understand jonathan toews and justin morneau. you can't understand datsyuk or ovechkin. americans and canadians are almost the same
and i agree it's harder to market nhl players, but the nhl is like a hundred times more popular now than it was right after the lockout, so they're obviously doing something right
