The team is run by idiots and charlatans and people rubber stamp the Pandolfo/Rolston moves. 25 years of this.
So the attendance should be through the roof when the team is built to instill hope and then alcoholism? You blame LI for the fan apathy? If Brooklyn residents will pay $5k a year for drek, more power to them.
When, may I ask, does a team have to ATTRACT fans to get attendance? Is it a case of the team being in the wrong place that fans don't go or is it because they suck at winning?
Yikes. This team draws 5,000 fans in Brooklyn. Who wants to advertise their company products with Pandolfo/Rolston fever pushing them?
The team is run by idiots and charlatans and people rubber stamp the Pandolfo/Rolston moves. 25 years of this.
So the attendance should be through the roof when the team is built to instill hope and then alcoholism? You blame LI for the fan apathy? If Brooklyn residents will pay $5k a year for drek, more power to them.
When, may I ask, does a team have to ATTRACT fans to get attendance? Is it a case of the team being in the wrong place that fans don't go or is it because they suck at winning?
Yikes. This team draws 5,000 fans in Brooklyn. Who wants to advertise their company products with Pandolfo/Rolston fever pushing them?
The pathetic historical attendance figures are everywhere, not just a blog. It's OK - it will all be over soon. Then you won't be in denial anymore.
Yeah, and Ranger fans in Brooklyn, the vast majority who don't give a **** about hockey and the small fraction who left LI as Isles fas will flock the building to see Wang revolutionize the business model.
Leave the epicenter of the fanbase and go to a smaller venue where the rival team dominates. OH! and take in a much smaller percentage of the venue's take. Brilliant. Math is in more sources, even some blogs. Read up on the matter.
Brooklyn is the last resort before moving, and in no way an intelligent move unless Ratner buys the team.
The pathetic historical attendance figures are everywhere, not just a blog. It's OK - it will all be over soon. Then you won't be in denial anymore.
No Ganu News is Good Ganu News with Gary Ganu!. I looked for you, but the obstructed view ruined everything. I did play some basketball though. This Basketball venue is gonna save Wang's Islanders and you and all the Rangers fans in Brooklyn are gonna make Long island dread the day they embarrassed Chairman Wang.
Bad teams have bad attendance. Win, and the fans will come. Nothing more, nothing less.
Isles did just that in 2002. Isles still lost 20m that year (or at least, didn't make enough money to warrant further investment, i.e. a mediocre mid level team is the best that could be supported) and didn't raise payroll. Isles continued to lose money until Wang ordered a payroll slashing that's only been halted do to the cap floor requirements.
Yeah, and Ranger fans in Brooklyn, the vast majority who don't give a **** about hockey and the small fraction who left LI as Isles fas will flock the building to see Wang revolutionize the business model.
Leave the epicenter of the fanbase and go to a smaller venue where the rival team dominates. OH! and take in a much smaller percentage of the venue's take. Brilliant. Math is in more sources, even some blogs. Read up on the matter.
Brooklyn is the last resort before moving, and in no way an intelligent move unless Ratner buys the team.
The epicenter of fans is domianted by the Rangers also. The epicenter of fans voted to not give them an arena. The epicenter of fans is far from this precious resource that needs to be protected at all costs.
The epicenter of fans is domianted by the Rangers also. The epicenter of fans voted to not give them an arena. The epicenter of fans is far from this precious resource that needs to be protected at all costs.
Yeah, I don't buy the whole "Ranger Country" argument either. Long Island was once (and still kinda is) Ranger Country. And yet, the Islanders managed to grow a fan base 40 years ago. Why can't the same thing be done in Brooklyn today?
Isles did just that in 2002. Isles still lost 20m that year (or at least, didn't make enough money to warrant further investment, i.e. a mediocre mid level team is the best that could be supported) and didn't raise payroll. Isles continued to lose money until Wang ordered a payroll slashing that's only been halted do to the cap floor requirements.
Didn't Forbes report that the Isles didn't count cable revenue (which is about their only big money maker) in their figures? If so, it was less than $20m. Second, 2002 was back when they were in the horrid SMG lease. Doesn't matter how many people showed up, the Isles didn't see the bulk of that revenue. They see a lot more of it now, and presumably that would be the case if they stayed in Nassau.
Personally, I don't care if it's Queens, Brooklyn, Nassau or Suffolk. I think they can draw anywhere as long as they're winning. That's what New Yorkers, and especially Long Islanders, care about. When the Sabres won the President's Trophy, there were more "Sabres" fans at the Coli than Isles fans. And I know they were local and not from Buffalo because they were yelling, "Let's go Saybez!"
The pathetic historical attendance figures are everywhere, not just a blog. It's OK - it will all be over soon. Then you won't be in denial anymore.
The attendance figures don't look so pathetic when the team was winning. Maybe this team needs to build an arena that can house an attendance for a winning team. Not an attendance for a perennial loser.
Yeah, I don't buy the whole "Ranger Country" argument either. Long Island was once (and still kinda is) Ranger Country. And yet, the Islanders managed to grow a fan base 40 years ago. Why can't the same thing be done in Brooklyn today?
Apples to oranges. The hockey following prior to expansion would not have been large enough to call LI ranger country. Prior to the first expansion the rangers were drawing 11K-13K on average in the mid 60s despite having the whole metro area to themselves. Hockey had a much smaller fanbase of avid fans in the US which exploded with expansion as people became more aware of the sport in other areas of the country.
Back then, unless they had grown up avid hockey (ranger) fans, most long islanders came to the sport when the islanders entered the league. There was an opportunity there for an untapped fanbase in a growing suburban area. If you saw the street hockey games on every long island block in the mid70s-80s, 7 or 8 out of every 10 would have on islander jerseys with the rest rangers, flyers, bruins and canadians.
Now most avid sports fans have already selected a team. You may have some islander fans and maybe can convert a few others, but the diehards will stay with their rangers. The rangers have made inroads into long island for sure but you will still find a much higher concentration of islander fans in nassau, suffolk and maybe queens than anywhere else. If you want a motivated new fanbase, seattle is a much better option than brooklyn.
The pathetic historical attendance figures are everywhere, not just a blog. It's OK - it will all be over soon. Then you won't be in denial anymore.
The 100% capacity of 14.5K would be 27th in the league right now, so you are just perpetuating poor attendance. There have been 11 home games this year where they have drawn over 14.5K and average attendance is just under 13K, imagine if they were winning and they had a nice building. Now how will Barclays help fix the attendance problem? Can you even guarantee that it will sell out if they don't win a few years after it is open? Just stop it.
Apples to oranges. The hockey following prior to expansion would not have been large enough to call LI ranger country. Prior to the first expansion the rangers were drawing 11K-13K on average in the mid 60s despite having the whole metro area to themselves. Hockey had a much smaller fanbase of avid fans in the US which exploded with expansion as people became more aware of the sport in other areas of the country.
Back then, unless they had grown up avid hockey (ranger) fans, most long islanders came to the sport when the islanders entered the league. There was an opportunity there for an untapped fanbase in a growing suburban area. If you saw the street hockey games on every long island block in the mid70s-80s, 7 or 8 out of every 10 would have on islander jerseys with the rest rangers, flyers, bruins and canadians.
Now most avid sports fans have already selected a team. you may have some islander fans and maybe can convert a few others, but the diehards will stay with their rangers. The rangers have made inroads into long island for sure but you will still find a much higher concentration of islander fans in nassau, suffolk and maybe queens than anywhere else. If you want a motivated new fanbase, seattle is a much better option than brooklyn.
I'm not suggesting that Ranger die-hards will be converts. No die-hard of any team would drop their team to root for another, hence the term "die-hard". I'm talking more casual fans, people who are not currently into hockey, or those who may start following the team simply because they play in Brooklyn. Brooklyn has always had it's own identity dating back to before the time it was absorbed in to NYC, and many of it's residents are extremely proud to be Brooklynites. This is especially true these days has majority of the borough has rebounded from very difficult economic times. I think it's a very good time to begin cultivating new fans, but the bottom line is that winning cures all ills, no matter where you play. If they can somehow become a winning team by the time they were to move to Brooklyn, it could prove to be very lucrative.
But all of this is pure speculation. The fact of the matter is that no one knows for sure whether or not the Isles can build upon their already existing fanbase if they were to move to Brooklyn. It's quite possible that it may not happen (although winning consistently will most definitely help), but I think there is just too much hand wringing over this aspect of possible relocation. For me, the practicality of the team playing at the Barclays in it's current form is a much more pressing issue.
Last edited by Strummergas: 03-02-2012 at 01:46 PM.
Fair point, yes none of us know for sure what the best solution is for the team at this point and we can only go on what information is available and what our gut tells us. It is obvious that you are just hoping the team gets a better situation than they have now. We can just disagree on what is best and see what happens. Nothing wrong with that.
Last edited by 19 in a row: 03-02-2012 at 02:08 PM.
Isles did just that in 2002. Isles still lost 20m that year (or at least, didn't make enough money to warrant further investment, i.e. a mediocre mid level team is the best that could be supported) and didn't raise payroll. Isles continued to lose money until Wang ordered a payroll slashing that's only been halted do to the cap floor requirements.
The magic $20M propaganda.
$4.5M was Forbes.
SMG was relevant.
Ya see, you have to take in ALL factors, especially the owner who cooked his books and sent the co-owner to prison. Had Wang cut payroll? No. He kept losing games and kept Milbury on. The money loss drama came when he was riding the LHP tower like a champ, when it went from $4.5M to $20M to four horsemen to sell the need.
And fans are still quoting the debunked line like dogmatic gospel.
Fair point, yes none of us know for sure what the best solution is for the team at this point and we can only go on what information is available and what our gut tells us. It is obvious that you are just hoping the team gets a better situation than they have now. We can just disagree on what is best and see what happens. Nothing wrong with that.
Yep, that's exactly right. A better situation no matter where that may be as long as it's with in the LI/NYC region. If it comes down to relocation to Brooklyn I think there will certainly be many challenges that are presented to the organization, but I also think that there will be many opportunites to better the franchise as well. Let's hope they capitalize on them if it comes down to it.
Ya see, you have to take in ALL factors, especially the owner who cooked his books and sent the co-owner to prison. Had Wang cut payroll? No. He kept losing games and kept Milbury on. The money loss drama came when he was riding the LHP tower like a champ, when it went from $4.5M to $20M to four horsemen to sell the need.
And fans are still quoting the debunked line like dogmatic gospel.
Too bad no one from the NHL has ever... ever... ever... ever... cited Forbes as credible with regards to their NHL numbers.
although winning consistently will most definitely help
this is all that EVER has to be said.
Wang got his revenues with Nassau but two parties are leaving fans with grief. The arena needs repair but the bottom line is this team sinks everywhere they play, Queens, Brooklyn, Timbuktu, Nassau.......unless they win or fans are lobotomized.
So that established, where is the most revenue? Islander Country? The City in Ranger Country? 16,234 seats or 14,500 seats or 18,000 in Queens (IF)? Does the deal with each of those arenas make Wang ticket, parking, luxury box, ad, concession and other revenues?
Will Wang spend on the team with those revenues?
Sorry, but Brooklyn makes the LEAST of the three above, but has the one thing going - it's a certainty. Nassau is the second most likely to exist post 2015, Queens a pipedream by now.
So.....Brooklyn least in revenue but likeliest to be intact, Nassau most revenue (unless Wang swings a sweetheart deal with the city who finances the arena) but second most/least likely to exist. Queens is a dream.
The best thing that can happen, therefore, apart from a dream new arena with dream conditions for Wang in Queens, is the make Nassau work with the now post SMG Coliseum deal or even close to what Wang walked away with.
One final thing: Brooklyn was a hole not so long ago and their economy recovered. Nassau is a hole now. It will recover. We just need a Giuliani or Christie to get us there.
Listen we can move into Madison Sqaure Garden and it wont make a freaking difference people!!!
Charles Wang is a horrible owner!! The man has run this team to the ground with his business model. You take a look at Mark Cuban who took over the Dallas Mavericks. They were a joke of a franchise, they were so poorly run and mismanaged. Cuban comes in and changes the attitude, changes the direction of the organization. Not only are they world champs but in the last 10 years the Mavericks have become solid contenders every year for the title. Charles Wang kept Milbury for 10 years!!! Charles Wang gave the corner stone position to a back up goalie. He has a real GM but instead meddled in all affairs and refused to see the error in his ways.
It does matter where we move, Charles Wang will still manage to **** it up. That is why I haven't paid to go to a game in 3 years.
So you guys can keep being foolish and say what county is better but in the end the NHL needs to force Charles Wang to sell the team. For the betterment of the sport and our fan base we need a new owner.
Forbes Magazine is reporting that NHL losses over the last two years aren't as severe as the league claims.
In its Nov. 29 edition, the business magazine asserts the league lost a combined $96 million US last season and not the $224 million reported by the NHL.
At the conclusion of the 2002-03 season, Forbes estimates the losses were around $123 million while the NHL claims the losses amounted to $273 million.
Forbes does not have access to any of the financial records for the 30 NHL teams.
The magazine reports the reason for the large discrepancy is that NHL teams don't account for all their revenue.
Forbes refers to the NHL only reporting half of the $17 million the New York Islanders received last season for their cable broadcasts as one example.
Yeah, why wouldn't the NHL support the financial gurus that called them out as negligent? Hmm.....
