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Barclay's Center Could be a Good Fit for Isles

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Old
02-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #51
Isles75
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
I live about 25 miles from the Wells Fargo Center in Philly, but I'm a full STH for the Flyers. I go to maybe 5-10 games a year, use some for biz, give a few away, and sell the rest on StubHub. THE KEY thing is that the tickets are desireable, so it's a net gain for me at the end of the day. Don't worry about details like train schedules when Isles tix right now have about as much worth as Confederate dollars.
So are Red Wing tickets. In the 70s and early 80s, they couldn't give them away.

So were Islanders tickets in the 70s and 80s. Now, they can't give them away.

winning and doing it consistently creates demand. The current coliseum would drew near capacity, if not sell out most nights, if Chairman Wang hired competent staff and allowed staff to spend to the cap ceiling.

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02-23-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Isles75 View Post
So are Red Wing tickets. In the 70s and early 80s, they couldn't give them away.

So were Islanders tickets in the 70s and 80s. Now, they can't give them away.

winning and doing it consistently creates demand. The current coliseum would drew near capacity, if not sell out most nights, if Chairman Wang hired competent staff and allowed staff to spend to the cap ceiling.
And just how is he supposed to do that with the lowest revenue in the league....in nassau?

Can't win without revenue.

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02-23-2012, 02:21 PM
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Back when I lived in Queens, I'd take the occasional LIRR trip to the Garden. There were always tons of Rag fans on the train. Why is it more inconvenient for the Long Island Islander fan to go to Brooklyn than for the Long Island Ranger fan to go to Manhattan? What am I missing here?

And I'm tired of people saying Brooklyn is Ranger country, they'll never convert, yadda yadda. They once said the same thing about Long Island as well. Sorry to say this, but the suburban model just does not work anymore. There's a reason why every new arena is being built in the city. The only thing wrong with Brooklyn right now is that it wasn't built for hockey which I will grant is a pretty big thing. That said, I have no doubt the Isles would be (at the very least) just as successful off the ice as they are in Nassau.

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02-23-2012, 02:27 PM
  #54
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There are closer to 5K STHs along with the 3K partials plus the individual seats that make up the 12K per night that go to an arena. We all agree that NVMC has no drawing powr of its own and the team has not contended. After the newness of brooklyn wears off will they do better?
The vast majority now come from the Island. So if you move to Brooklyn you will need to replace most of the 12K, while being in the middle of ranger country with access difficult for the majority of those who purchased before. I am glad you will go to games if they do but if someone is going to take the team away from us, why not go to Seattle where there will be hungry fans. Instead they should to go a mishapen, small arena that will be difficult for all but those on direct subway lines to travel to, to a fanbase that has never been identified previously? Brooklyn is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. I have listened to all the arguments and other than "it is there" and peoples biased opinions I see no substance. People may laugh but better to extend the coliseum lease for a few years and wait for a REAL arena anywhere.
Oh stop it. Brooklyn is a magical hockey place. Once the Islanders move there, they become magical too! The great space coaster is leaving, your not on board?

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02-23-2012, 02:28 PM
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Beggars can't be choosers. What municipality will sign just an 8 year lease? What have you seen from nassau/Queens and suffolk that leads you to think they're feasible or potentially feasible? Queens is my first choice but Brooklyn has an arena and the infrastructure. The other places don't.
They're the ones that have been calling us. It's possible the NYI can get a good short term lease. There are no other options to have that building be a 2 team building. The Devils aren't moving, and no one else is moving here. So the Nets & Brooklyn can agree to a shorter lease, hoping that the NYI won't be able to get something done in Queens/Nassau/Suffolk, and then when the lease is up, the NYI will just think of Brooklyn as their home & sign a long term lease.

It makes sense in my head. It's either Nets & Isles or just Nets & Disney on ice.

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02-23-2012, 02:30 PM
  #56
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Ya see? this is why you arent running the isles.

You don't want to have to replace your existing fans.

And for a team who BARELY sells out ANY game during the year, wouldn't want to have that attitude towards their existing fanbase. They need every fan they can get.

Brooklyn is a HORRIBLE choice for a new location.

It will be Nassau or Suffolk -- -and if they are smart -- a direct link to LIRR.
Time to revive the Suffolk pilgrim site chatter. (unfortunately I have not heard the county come out and say they would like to make something work for the isles.)

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02-23-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Isles75 View Post
Islanders fans from Long Island are going to love the $20 plus round trips on the LIRR to keep their ST's, while angry Brooklynites wait for tickets to become available.
Isn't the current alternative $4-5/gallon gas and $10-20 parking fees? Give me the train and six-pack anyday.

IMO there are pros (corporate support, media spotlight, mass transit) and cons (seating capacity, tenant aspect), but location itself is a pro. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be curious to see how many NYI fans work in Manhattan and live on LI, I know I was one for a number of years -- before I moved to cheaper/warmer pastures.

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02-23-2012, 02:39 PM
  #58
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Time to revive the Suffolk pilgrim site chatter. (unfortunately I have not heard the county come out and say they would like to make something work for the isles.)
Live like 10 minutes from there. Little known fact about that site is it currently has a LIRR track that's not in use. It was taken off line in 1979 I think. Repair it, up grade it, use it

But they can't stay in Nassau or move to Suffolk. Brooklyn's basketball facility is where it's at.

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02-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #59
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Time to revive the Suffolk pilgrim site chatter. (unfortunately I have not heard the county come out and say they would like to make something work for the isles.)
Maybe those ghost will help us score more goals

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02-23-2012, 02:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Franco View Post
. Why is it more inconvenient for the Long Island Islander fan to go to Brooklyn than for the Long Island Ranger fan to go to Manhattan? What am I missing here?
I could be wrong because I have only taken the LIRR to Brooklyn once and that was at least 5 years ago but it seems to be vastly different. I do believe there is a transfer you need to make and the sheer amount of time it takes to get into Brooklyn is longer. Also, is the arena near the Flatbush station? I don't know.

What I do know is that the LIRR goes into Penn which is directly underneath the Garden. You don't even have to walk outside once you get off the train. That's the definition of convenience.

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02-23-2012, 02:47 PM
  #61
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Yup, I'm laughing. Let's suck for a few years more after 2015 and move anywhere but a few miles away. Preposterous. 40% of STH's in 1983 came from Brooklyn/Queens. LI is NYR territory now. Just watch tomorrow night. Seattle doesn't have thousands of EXISTING isles fans within 30 miles of it's arena like Brooklyn does. All we get from you is complaining that it's difficult to get to from LI and most of their existing small fan base won't be replaced. Your biased opinion has no substance to me. Brooklyn means growth, nassau means stagnation. Times change. Either change with them or get left behind as nassau and NYI have been. I'd rather it not continue.
You made the same comment about Brooklyn queens being 40% prior without ever backing it up other than saying your relative worked in the ticket area. I doubt there was more than a very small percentage from Brooklyn so if anything you are inflating by combining with Queens which had a decent share if i had to guess. I asked my rep they dont have those figures now, so I would be suprised if they had them then, unless it was a specific study. We paid for our tickets in cash during that time for single games without ever giving addresses, so I assume you meant season ticket holders.
And who said anything about sucking for longer, I don't see how moving to Brooklyn into an undersized arena will improve us. Rather it will be moving closer to ranger fan base and make us permanently second class. I think the team will continue to improve naturally and a promise of a nice arena somewhere will help attract UFA (Brooklyn is not ideal).
I have tried to listen patiently to your comments, but they seem to be myopic and full of certainties which can't be certain. I definitely think brooklyn is a possibility just a bad one and admit that is my opinion based on the facts as i have tried to learn them. You seem to ignore any other factor other than the ones which benefit your point of view.
I will be there tomorrow night and yes there will be ranger fans there as there has been since day one. Your point being? In brooklyn there would be even more ranger fans.

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02-23-2012, 02:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
Yes it does and i am one of them.. rush hour is 2.5 hours long. The amount of people using LIRR in and out there every day is a fraction of Penn. Trains into brooklyn are generally able to hold about 844 people(8 cars with limited 10 car capability if it hangs two cars off the end platform). There is limited track space in and out of brooklyn so they can not add alot of additional trains. At the hour the games will end there is currently 1 train every 25 minutes. They may be able to add in a few more trains but when you factor in the other regular commuters they can not move "thousands and thousands" of exiting fans immediately following a game. So unless you want to wait an hour or two after game time, it will be an issue.. Then factor in that almost all lines will need to transfer at Jamaica, good luck getting home fast by train. Atlantic Avenue is not Penn Station and has very few tracks in/out to go with the 6 platforms. If you have ever gotten stuck in atlantic avenue for a delay you would know, people get backed up onto the street outside. the waiting area is small. Have you seen what penn looks like before/after ranger/knick games? Now put those people into a small area... And if you want to drive? they are putting in a parking lot that will be stacking your cars vertically, good luck with that too... unless you are on a subway line, traveling in my opinion will be awful. The fans will need to come from subway, with the majority of the current season ticket holders giving them up. Hopefully if they do this they can attract the new base.
Dude - I commuted back and forth from LI to NYC thru Brooklyn for 24 years. No biggie. They add a few trains and we're all set. There will be fans from Brooklyn either walking or taking the subway. There will be fans from Manhattan and other boroughs taking the subway as well. A few people will drive and some from LI will take the LIRR.
It's all good.

As per Brooklyn being a bad spot for the Isles, I completely disagree. If the Isles played there when I worked in the City, I would have gone to games all the time. And from many places on LI, the LIRR is easy. One change in Jamaica for most lines and you're there. Have a beer, listen to your Ipod. No drving required. As a former Long Islander, I'd rather take the train to Brooklyn than drive to Willets Point. And taking the train to Willets is actually a hassle. Unless you are on the Port Wash line, you need to take the LIRR and get off at Woodside and then take the 7 across. A quick 10 foot walk across the platform in Jamaica sounds much better to me.

And, Brooklyn has far more personality than the part of Queens where Citifield is located. Brooklyn provides the big city feel.

The more I consider all of the options, the more I think Brooklyn is an even better bet than remaining in Uniondale.

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02-23-2012, 02:50 PM
  #63
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Yes the Ranger and Devil fans will have an easier time to get to Islander games via the subway in Brooklyn. My original comment was in response to the article and other prior comments saying how easy it will be for fans from the current base to come in from Long Island, which IMHO is completely inaccurate. Most of the current ticket holders will not be able to attend regularly, as many have already stated. Just as brooklyn fans claim they have a hard time getting to the coliseum, long islanders would not have an easy time coming to barclays in large numbers. I am sure(ok not sure, hope) they will do a study to see how the move would impact the fan base before they did it. Maybe they can replace with brooklynites and corporations but either way not what the current STHs who support the team can get behind.
So we go from being 2nd rate organization with hopes of someday becoming relevant again with a new building somewhere to ensuring we will always be second rate in the shadow of the garden with a small arena that will be dark at one end of the ice and a nightmare to commute to for their original base.. sign me up..

The nets are a different story. Their fanbases is not on long island and hasnt been since the late 70s. LIRR is not as relevant an issue for them. They didn't draw flies from Manhattan despite being 20 minutes away by train. Hopefully Brooklyn has the right fanbase for them.
There is only one reason why I find it difficult to attend Islander games during the week. Lack of public transportation directly to the arena. If there was an LIRR stop right next to the arena, and I could avoid paying for admission to the game, LIRR fare and cab fare, I'd be going much more frequently. So, it's really not the same arguement when you switch it around like that.

And do you seriously think that the LIRR won't increase service on game nights?

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02-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #64
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There is only one reason why I find it difficult to attend Islander games during the week. Lack of public transportation directly to the arena. If there was an LIRR stop right next to the arena, and I could avoid paying for admission to the game, LIRR fare and cab fare, I'd be going much more frequently. So, it's really not the same arguement when you switch it around like that.

And do you seriously think that the LIRR won't increase service on game nights?

Well you are in the minority then since the majority of long island and eastern queens drive to most venues. I think not having auto access to Brooklyn is worse than not having LIRR for NVMC. Do you live on Long Island without a car? that is tough sledding if you do.
I definitely don't mean to lesson the importance, yes they should have better LIRR access but how many new fans would it bring in reality? It should have or shoudl be a part of any plan that would have involved nassau suffolk. If we were throwing around LIRR money for brooklyn, then why not nassau?

I seriously think it would be difficult to add sufficient service to accomodate anything more than a few thousand. The waiting area wont hold more than a few hundred at at time, and there is not enough track space in and out of there currently. Could they do additional work, absolutely, but i have not heard of any yet and the LIRR is almost as strapped as nassau. They have been losing money and have expensive projects in the works. They had planned to cut some service there when the east side access opens. It is not Penn station where they can run many 12 car trains, nor is it even shea stadium since it is a terminus where trains must enter and exit rather than pass through.


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02-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #65
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Isn't the current alternative $4-5/gallon gas and $10-20 parking fees? Give me the train and six-pack anyday.

IMO there are pros (corporate support, media spotlight, mass transit) and cons (seating capacity, tenant aspect), but location itself is a pro. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be curious to see how many NYI fans work in Manhattan and live on LI, I know I was one for a number of years -- before I moved to cheaper/warmer pastures.
Current parking is $10, unless they changed it in the last few days?

Islanders had no problem drawing in beat writers, advertising and getting that suburban, Long Island location sold out under Bow-Tie Bill and Captain Potvin. The play-offs used to be a common thing around here.

In fact, I remember the last time the Islanders actually resembled a pro hockey team. 2001-02 against the Leafs in that 7 game series. Went to a few different sports bars to watch the games, all wall-to-wall Islanders fans. Think how it was for the Giants Super Bowl run. It was like that and I'm only talking Suffolk County. Long Island has a load of Islanders fans, their just waiting for "Pro hockey" to come back to Long Island. Chairman Wang like the artificial stuff

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02-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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I could be wrong because I have only taken the LIRR to Brooklyn once and that was at least 5 years ago but it seems to be vastly different. I do believe there is a transfer you need to make and the sheer amount of time it takes to get into Brooklyn is longer. Also, is the arena near the Flatbush station? I don't know.

What I do know is that the LIRR goes into Penn which is directly underneath the Garden. You don't even have to walk outside once you get off the train. That's the definition of convenience.
Hi Twine,

The transfer is only necessary unless you are taking one of the south shore lines. Those pull into Jamaica and continue on to Atlantic Ave. It takes longer because it is technically further and there may be a few more stops than there would be if you were heading to Penn. But you're maybe looking at 15 minues more.

The area around the arena is really no big deal now and it wasn't even a big deal 5 years ago. I'd rather walk down that stretch of Flatbush alone and at night than I would the area round the Coliseum.

Also the Barclays will have a similar set up with the LIRR as Penn does. You go right from the arena to the trains.

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02-23-2012, 03:23 PM
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Hi Twine,

The transfer is only necessary unless you are taking one of the south shore lines. Those pull into Jamaica and continue on to Atlantic Ave. It takes longer because it is technically further and there may be a few more stops than there would be if you were heading to Penn. But you're maybe looking at 15 minues more.

The area around the arena is really no big deal now and it wasn't even a big deal 5 years ago. I'd rather walk down that stretch of Flatbush alone and at night than I would the area round the Coliseum.

Also the Barclays will have a similar set up with the LIRR as Penn does. You go right from the arena to the trains.
Really?

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02-23-2012, 03:23 PM
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Hi Twine,

The transfer is only necessary unless you are taking one of the south shore lines. Those pull into Jamaica and continue on to Atlantic Ave. It takes longer because it is technically further and there may be a few more stops than there would be if you were heading to Penn. But you're maybe looking at 15 minues more.
The actual average train travel time from Jamaica to Brooklyn vs Jamaica to Penn is only two minutes more - 20 min vs 18 min.

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02-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Strummergas View Post

Also the Barclays will have a similar set up with the LIRR as Penn does. You go right from the arena to the trains.
Thanks for the info. And that last part is what's most important to me. An extra few minutes on the train is really nothing. I just wasn't sure where the arena was in relation to the train station. If it's that close, seems like a good deal. I was worried we would have to walk 10 blocks/get a cab/take the subway.

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02-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Twine, here ya go. I think the trains might be right next to the center?

http://barclayscenter.com/

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02-23-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 19 in a row View Post
You made the same comment about Brooklyn queens being 40% prior without ever backing it up other than saying your relative worked in the ticket area. I doubt there was more than a very small percentage from Brooklyn so if anything you are inflating by combining with Queens which had a decent share if i had to guess. I asked my rep they dont have those figures now, so I would be suprised if they had them then, unless it was a specific study. We paid for our tickets in cash during that time for single games without ever giving addresses, so I assume you meant season ticket holders.
And who said anything about sucking for longer, I don't see how moving to Brooklyn into an undersized arena will improve us. Rather it will be moving closer to ranger fan base and make us permanently second class. I think the team will continue to improve naturally and a promise of a nice arena somewhere will help attract UFA (Brooklyn is not ideal).
I have tried to listen patiently to your comments, but they seem to be myopic and full of certainties which can't be certain. I definitely think brooklyn is a possibility just a bad one and admit that is my opinion based on the facts as i have tried to learn them. You seem to ignore any other factor other than the ones which benefit your point of view.
I will be there tomorrow night and yes there will be ranger fans there as there has been since day one. Your point being? In brooklyn there would be even more ranger fans.
You only see what you want which isn't half the picture. More revenue in Brooklyn. Access to more fans from workers in NYC, westchester, jersey, Queens as well as the non wimpy fans from LI who will find a way to get there. How does 15K work in Winnipeg? How does a small crowd work at Fenway Park? You worry about pricing a family out - not quite as affordable seating is always available in small venues. Why do you think 14.5k is permanent? You don't think an extension could ever be added? Why is it more inconvenient for the Long Island Islander fan to go to Brooklyn than for the Long Island Ranger fan to go to Manhattan? What happened prior to 1972 when LI was all NYR fans? Same thing would happen in Brooklyn except now there is a head start of existing fans. You don't think Brooklyn would have more corp support and revenue to offset smaller seating? What facts am I ignoring? That LI fans are inconvenienced? Big deal, there aren't enough of them to matter. What about the non LI fans who have shlepped to NVM in reverse? Payback is a bi.... (I guess you'd rather have no team relatively close because it isn't perfect and 3 mnutes from your residence. Sound pretty spoiled) Someone mentioned the suburban model doesn't work which is true but you can't let go. It's time.

Your stance goes nowhere but basically it comes down to Brooklyn having a viable place to play while nowhere else in the NY metro area does. Yet you are still adamantly defending a preference. When we have another choice let me know. Until then you're defending something that at present doesn't exist while complaining about the only thing that does.

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02-23-2012, 03:27 PM
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There are closer to 5K STHs along with the 3K partials plus the individual seats that make up the 12K per night that go to an arena. We all agree that NVMC has no drawing powr of its own and the team has not contended. After the newness of brooklyn wears off will they do better?
The vast majority now come from the Island. So if you move to Brooklyn you will need to replace most of the 12K, while being in the middle of ranger country with access difficult for the majority of those who purchased before. I am glad you will go to games if they do but if someone is going to take the team away from us, why not go to Seattle where there will be hungry fans. Instead they should to go a mishapen, small arena that will be difficult for all but those on direct subway lines to travel to, to a fanbase that has never been identified previously? Brooklyn is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. I have listened to all the arguments and other than "it is there" and peoples biased opinions I see no substance. People may laugh but better to extend the coliseum lease for a few years and wait for a REAL arena anywhere.
When the Islanders used to ice a Stanley Cup caliber, professional hockey team under Bow-Tie Bill and Captain Potvin they had 16,234 STHs. They also had a lengthy waiting list for those looking to pick up tickets. Islanders didn't have mass transit then

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02-23-2012, 03:38 PM
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Well you are in the minority then since the majority of long island and eastern queens drive to most venues. I think not having auto access to Brooklyn is worse than not having LIRR for NVMC. I definitely don't mean to lesson the importance, yes they should have better LIRR access but how many new fans would it bring in reality? It should have or shoudl be a part of any plan that would have involved nassau suffolk. If we were throwing around LIRR money for brooklyn, then why not nassau?

I seriously think it would be difficult to add sufficient service to accomodate anything more than a few thousand. The waiting area wont hold more than a few hundred at at time, and there is not enough track space in and out of there currently. Could they do additional work, absolutely, but i have not heard of any yet and the LIRR is almost as strapped as nassau. They have been losing money and have expensive projects in the works. They had planned to cut some service there when the east side access opens. It is not Penn station where they can run many 12 car trains, nor is it even shea stadium since it is a terminus where trains must enter and exit rather than pass through.
As a terminus there will be trains waiting to be boarded as an event is nearing a close, just like Penn Station. They can make sure that all trains being used after events are of the double decker variety so that it doubles the capacity of each train. Increasing service during events would allow for empty trains to be standing by to enter the station as soon as full ones depart.

What I truly find remarkable is that easy access to LIRR is touted in the Newsday piece and yet you find the possible volume troublesome. The Nets are playing to capacity of 18,000 there and this arena will have concerts and family shows that have a 20,000 seat capacity. If the Islanders leave Nassau for anywhere let alone Brooklyn, do you really think that the majority of these events will still take place at NVMC? If the Isles depart, NVMC will most likely be demolished to make way for whatever it is Hempstead decides it wants there. And even if the Isles stay and/or the building remains, Barclays will become competition to NVMC in booking acts. You'll likely see either an event at Barclays or Nassau but not both. So there's going to be an influx of Long Islanders heading into Brooklyn for these events no matter what. Certainly this was considered when this whole plan was proposed.

I really think you're making a big deal out of nothing here and it's most likely fueled by the anxiety of the Isles leaving LI or the fact that you're going to be inconvenienced by the fact that you have to change your routine for attending games and because you may not be able to attend as frequently as you do now. But think of it this way, if Nassau doesn't work out (and it ain't looking good as of now), Brooklyn is the only even semi-workable way to keep this team local (at the moment anyway). For the record, I'd prefer they stay in Nassau despite the fact that I live in Brooklyn. But the move to Barclays in the face of the very real possibility of the team leaving the area is a no brainer if it comes down to it.


Last edited by Strummergas: 02-23-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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02-23-2012, 03:39 PM
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Really?
Uniondale vs. Park Slope. Hmmmm, not really a tough choice for me.

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02-23-2012, 03:41 PM
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Thanks for the info. And that last part is what's most important to me. An extra few minutes on the train is really nothing. I just wasn't sure where the arena was in relation to the train station. If it's that close, seems like a good deal. I was worried we would have to walk 10 blocks/get a cab/take the subway.
The video on the Newsday site touted access to LIRR and subways right from the arena as one of it's perks.

EDIT: My mistake, the Atlantic Terminal is across the street from the arena. "A stone's throw" was used to describe the distance. Still, no need for extensive walks or cabs.


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