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Radulov back to Nashville; Should play Thurs. vs Penguins
None of that says he can return and play at midseason.
Again there is NO ISSUE if he wants to return to Nashville during the offseason. No issue if he comes in for training camp and the start of the 2012-13 season.
The only issue would be if he wants to come and join the team for the end of the regular season and playoffs THIS YEAR. He can't do that.
None of that says he can return and play at midseason.
Again there is NO ISSUE if he wants to return to Nashville during the offseason. No issue if he comes in for training camp and the start of the 2012-13 season.
The only issue would be if he wants to come and join the team for the end of the regular season and playoffs THIS YEAR. He can't do that.
I'm done trying to convince you. This is worse than any political argument. This whole debate is likely a moot point anyways as Rads will likely stay for the Word Championships.
Nabokov was signed by Detroit and claimed by the Islanders.
In Radulov's case, he's been suspended, so if he were to come back they'd "un-suspend" him, meaning he wouldn't have to go through waivers. Basically, they suspended him from their roster, so he doesn't take up a spot, or a cap hit, but when he comes back they'd remove the asteriks and he'd take up a spot, get paid, etc.
This would be a loophole to sending a player to the AHL, any team could stash players in Europe this way, and just claim they were suspended and unsuspend them when they are ready to use them. They would avoid the AHL waiver rules.
This is what the league wants to avoid, and the reason the rule was put in the CBA.
The reasoning behind the rule, and what would happen in the future if it was allowed to be exploited in this way is what you always have to keep in mind.
None of that says he can return and play at midseason.
Again there is NO ISSUE if he wants to return to Nashville during the offseason. No issue if he comes in for training camp and the start of the 2012-13 season.
The only issue would be if he wants to come and join the team for the end of the regular season and playoffs THIS YEAR. He can't do that.
By the book, you are absolutely correct.
However, Radulov's situation is entirely different and unique. He jumped to the KHL in the middle of contract. Not on loan, without the Preds' blessings, before many of the rules of the NHL-KHL transfer agreement were enforced. The rule, as written, doesn't apply to him in this case. Daly said it. Poile said it as well.
That rule you posted clearly says nothing about contract status of said player returning to play in the NHl.
Exactly... Contract status isn't an issue. Its all about activating a player onto your active roster.
Detroit could have signed Nabokov last year, and kept him for the 2011-12 season, and not had to put him on waivers. That would have been perfectly fine.
He only needed to be put on waivers because they wanted to activate him for a game last year.
Quote:
We already know the stance of the league if a player signs a new contract. We have seen this scenario multiple times. What we haven't seen is a scenario like Radulovs. Where a player already has an existing contract and is not on loan. There is plenty of wiggle room there just by the wording it's not specific enough with regards to contracts and since David Poile has already said he could come back without being exposed to waivers I'm going to trust him on the issue. Not saying you are 100 percent wrong you might be right when it's all said and done. Just saying I'm taking Poile's opinion over yours.
I still havent seen a quote from Poile that says he can return at mid-season.
The quote given to me on this says he can return at the start of a new season. Which I 100% agree with. He could start next season in Nashville and not have to worry about waivers.
As for interpreting the rule and the CBA... I'm a lawyer, I do this stuff every day. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on interpreting the CBA here.
However, Radulov's situation is entirely different and unique. He jumped to the KHL in the middle of contract. Not on loan, without the Preds' blessings, before many of the rules of the NHL-KHL transfer agreement were enforced. The rule, as written, doesn't apply to him in this case. Daly said it. Poile said it as well.
This rule isn't about the NHL-KHL transfer agreement, its about the AHL-NHL waiver rules. It has nothing to do with the KHL and would still apply if Radulov was playing in the SEL or another league where the NHL had a transfer agreement at the time.
yakupov has been playing in canada, so i don't think you'll have to worry about that.
what i don't get, in kuznetsov's case, is if you don't want to come to the NHL, why declare yourself eligible for the draft? you've gotta think with all the stories surrounding this kid in his draft year that the Capitals had many discussions with him, and had to get SOME sort of re-assurances that he would come to DC, and not stay in the KHL.
No one "declares" themself for the draft anymore, they're simply drafted.
Exactly... Contract status isn't an issue. Its all about activating a player onto your active roster.
Detroit could have signed Nabokov last year, and kept him for the 2011-12 season, and not had to put him on waivers. That would have been perfectly fine.
He only needed to be put on waivers because they wanted to activate him for a game last year.
I still havent seen a quote from Poile that says he can return at mid-season.
The quote given to me on this says he can return at the start of a new season. Which I 100% agree with. He could start next season in Nashville and not have to worry about waivers.
As for interpreting the rule and the CBA... I'm a lawyer, I do this stuff every day. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on interpreting the CBA here.
The thing is section 13 doesn't apply in this case
Quote:
13.1 A Club shall not dispose of the services of any Player in which it has a proprietary interest by Loan to a club of another league without first having complied with the provisions of this Article. The Waivers that are recognized by this Agreement are Regular Waivers, Re-Entry Waivers and Unconditional Waivers.
The predators never "disposed of the services" of Radulov therefore, the following articles falling under the CBA section 13 don't apply, including 13.23 which you cited
at least, that is how I as a fellow lawyer would argue it :-)
I have never spent hours poring over the CBA and my speciality isn't contract law (nor US law for that matter), but after looking at it for the last 15 minutes or so the key provisions are to do with what happens post-suspension, which I can't seem to find.
I definitely think this isn't a clear-cut scenario and is one that would have to be argued before the arbitration panel if challenged, however, I think the NHL would rather see Radulov in the league rather than outside and so the interests of justice and the letter of the law may be circumvented for business purposes
(if the contract was challenged in a real court of law that might change...)
This rule isn't about the NHL-KHL transfer agreement, its about the AHL-NHL waiver rules. It has nothing to do with the KHL and would still apply if Radulov was playing in the SEL or another league where the NHL had a transfer agreement at the time.
Normally I would agree with you. By reading the clause in the CBA directly, I can understand why you are coming to these conclusions. However, Daly has gone on record saying Radulov would not have to clear waivers, and it was repeated by Poile. From the sound of it, they may be making an exception for Radulov. There isn't any fear of this happening again in the future because the transfer agreement is in place now.
That being said, if he comes back I think it will be in the Fall regardless.
Normally I would agree with you. By reading the clause in the CBA directly, I can understand why you are coming to these conclusions. However, Daly has gone on record saying Radulov would not have to clear waivers, and it was repeated by Poile. From the sound of it, they may be making an exception for Radulov. There isn't any fear of this happening again in the future because the transfer agreement is in place now.
That being said, if he comes back I think it will be in the Fall regardless.
If thats been said, great. I'm just waiting for a quote to this effect... attributed directly to one of Daly, Bettman, or Poile. No one has provided that. The only quote we've seen is one attributed to Poile that states he can come back, but doesn't clarify if its mid-season or off-season.
I again agree, he can come back in an off-season, no problem.
The difference would be if I was citing 13. 1 (b)... not 13.23
In other words
13 is superior 13.1
13.1 is equal to 13.2, 13.3, 13.4, etc
13.1 is superior to 13.1 (a)
etc... etc...
Hmm, as I already confessed, this is out of my depth...however, for the intellectual interest this gives me I will attempt a rebuttal
I would argue that his playing in the KHL should not be recognised as a valid contract, as he is already technically under contract with the predators. If his contract is held to be invalid then he technically didn't play with them, making the rule under 13.23 inapplicable
Also in the UK I think you could bring up an argument based on equity that the Predators would suffer a loss due to his current contract basically being rendered unenforceable if this rule was applied...however, again, that may be completely inapplicable in the US, as I think in the UK they have a lot more leniency in interpreting contracts and statutes regarding contracts in the spirit in which they were made, and obviously this situation does not apply to what the rule was intended to prevent...however, again, I have never studied US law, so this may not be the case
It applies to any player added to a roster during the season.
the reasoning behind it is that if you wanted to place Radulov in the AHL you'd have to waive him before he could go there.
You can't use Europe as a farm team to avoid waiver rules
(I realize that Nashville wasn't using UFA as a farm team to do this)
Still the rule is in place for all players, and it is a black and white situation... he played at least one game in the KHL this season, he can't be activated to an NHL roster without waivers.
this has been argued repeatedly.
since rads was under contract when he went over, his KHL play means bupkus in the NHL's eyes.
he will be treated as a holdout(no waivers) or at worst as a loan(no waivers)not a free agent signing(waivers).
this is supposedly what the Preds have been told by the league(who would be the decider in this case), so all of you internet CBA-lawyers can just stop it already...
I think it's funny how everyone wants their hands on him and are trying to argue to this point now that he's coming back. I've seen so many AK47 for Radulov's rights come up lately that it's becoming a running joke.
Let's just face it. MTL fans want Radulov for a bag of potatoes.
Why do you think that i'm one of those 3 things? All that i'm saying is that players of elite talent should be challenging themselves to be the best at what they do...
You said there would be "more russians in the khl" based on the premise that good players can get paid more in the KHL than the NHL.
I just found it odd you would say there'd be more russian players in the KHL when it's predominately Russian.
We know, for example, that ex Canuck prospect Kirill Koltsov booked back to Russia after 1 year in the AHL for the money and never looked back. Two years ago we figured it would cost $3 mil +/year to get him over to the Canucks on similar wages to what he makes now.
With open arms and hugs. Radulov stays in contact with the younger players. He got A LOT of hate from Arnott for being a kid.
It was a strange incident, but it is hard to imagine a young guy hurting a star veteran with a history of some injury issues on a goal celebration would go over all that well on any team.
Radulov might still be tight with Weber and Suter but I don't think this changes things as much as some Preds fans desire. Suter still looks bound to evaluate his options and listen to the free agent market. They all can cash in at different markets and have a nice vacation together in the off-season or try to figure out a way where they wind up in a different one together as unlikely as that seems. Weber and Suter are said to be very good friends and that hasn't put pen to paper either.
since rads was under contract when he went over, his KHL play means bupkus in the NHL's eyes.
he will be treated as a holdout(no waivers) or at worst as a loan(no waivers)not a free agent signing(waivers).
this is supposedly what the Preds have been told by the league(who would be the decider in this case), so all of you internet CBA-lawyers can just stop it already...
strange how everyone repeats this but there are no links produced
strange how everyone repeats this but there are no links produced
Explain Marcus Kruger's situation last year. Signed with the Hawks, then went to play in the SEL for the entire season in Sweden, came over to Chicago and played both regular & post-season games.
There are different rules when you're property of an NHL team. Not the same as when you're playing in Europe with no NHL contract or property of an NHL team.
Explain Marcus Kruger's situation last year. Signed with the Hawks, then went to play in the SEL for the entire season in Sweden, came over to Chicago and played both regular & post-season games.
There are different rules when you're property of an NHL team. Not the same as when you're playing in Europe with no NHL contract or property of an NHL team.
