He's gotten better on defense more noticeably in the past month. This is why I've pushed back on suggestions of laziness from others. He's skating harder now than he has at any point in the season, and there are now usually one or two shifts where he's quite noticeable. You think, whoa, now there's the guy we need. But when the game has ended you've only seen one or two such shifts, at most one period.
That is a statement for most of the young guys including Perron and Berglund. Oshie is the only one that is consistent for the entire game and part of that is due to conditioning. Oshie came in as a beast.
It's unclear how to interpret this. I mean I honestly don't know what it predicts about his future performance in the NHL and/or with the Blues. On the one hand it suggests to me he cares enough that the modifications he's making are positive. You could say: he's young, he's learning how to succeed playing a different style than the one that's made him successful on the score sheet even if his game is more one-dimensional. I don't think he has to change his game. I think he is a bit snake bitten and while Hitch plays a defensive style - it is more about creating turnovers and attacking. Plus moving the puck quickly up the ice. Most teams play this style and that includes the Blues last year. The Aves have also been a North South team.
I do agree he isn't good at cycling the puck and really needs to work on that. He loses it way to often in the corner, but I don't think it is such a tough thing
On the other hand, he has still a long way to go. I still think Berglund has a ways to go and Stewart's well behind Berglund. I've stopped more negatively critiquing Berglund's game generally since the All-Star break and in particular since what I consider his best game of the season, that one at Nashville Feb 23 that made them panic and give up a first rounder for Gaustad. I see more good things in his game, even though one point in his last six games just doesn't cut it for a top six player. He's streaky – ten games where his only points were the two goals against Pittsburgh, then 10 points in 12 games, then four games held pointless, then six points in six games, and now one point in six games.
Most players who put up 50-60 points are streaking- including Backes and Oshie. Because we don't have a game breaker that can do that all the time. There just aren't a ton of ppg players out there. And I still feel that he is the closest thing we have. I do agree he isn't good at cycling the puck and really needs to work on that. He loses it way to often in the corner, but I don't think it is such a tough thing.
Stewart, on the other hand, while he's played more determinedly at times, is still producing 5 goals, 5 assists in his last 35 games. That's just not the kind of production you can have from a player whose QO will be 3.25M if they want to keep him, no matter what kind of uptick in diligence we see. It's a situation where he might learn, but it feels like almost starting over from scratch and teaching him how to play. Even with that extraordinarily modest production, he's still making terrible turnovers that lead to scoring chances and goals the other way on a semi-routine basis. The Blues really can't afford to have him learn a whole new style on the job.
He has had one really bad turnover the past 10+ games. He flubbed a pass, but made a good play right before that. And alot of the team hasn't been very sharp since the beginning of the last road trip. Way too many odd man rushes. I just think that conditioning and learning to really cycle the puck will make all the difference in his game next season - Again he is cycling with Berglund who is shoot first also. It doesn't seem like it ton of work to get that skill.
I think the best thing we can hope for is for scouts to see clear improvement in his two way game and think, just as you suggested, that on a run and gun team or a team like Pittsburgh with gifted centers, a player with speed and hands is going to succeed. Then the question is will they give the Blues back something that actually improves our team.
I think the best thing we can do is hope he returns to form or at worst case get a top 4-7 pick in this years draft. Way to early to give up on him. Remember that Backes was selke candidate until the past 2 years. And his production has also been up and down early on in his carear.
I am just more optimistic and think the SYSTEM EXCUSE is only a small part of the answer. I am more inclined to look at linemates and PP time. Upto this year he was always on the top unit.
I think the best thing we can do is hope he returns to form or at worst case get a top 4-7 pick in this years draft. Way to early to give up on him. Remember that Backes was selke candidate until the past 2 years. And his production has also been up and down early on in his carear.
I am just more optimistic and think the SYSTEM EXCUSE is only a small part of the answer. I am more inclined to look at linemates and PP time. Upto this year he was always on the top unit.
1) Stewart doesn't get a top 4-7 pick
2) How many open nets or gimme goals has Stewart missed this season? It is not a linemate problem or a PP time problem, Stewart isn't a fit here, and it has to do with our system, and him individually.
I was in the value of Iginla thread on the trade board and a guy said he and a Blues fan came to agreement on Rattie + Cole for Giordano and I think that would be a solid win-win deal.
(He then said if that were the case for Giordano then Iginla should return Rattie, Cole, 2012 1st and conditional 2014 1st at which I lolled.)
Yeah, I saw that. Those main boards are almost bad enough for me not to post there anymore. The trade forum is always bad, but the main board is becoming a free for all. I wouldn't give more than Stewart and a low prospect/pick for Iginla. He's expensive, old, and it doesn't solidify a weakness.
Yeah, I saw that. Those main boards are almost bad enough for me not to post there anymore. The trade forum is always bad, but the main board is becoming a free for all. I wouldn't give more than Stewart and a low prospect/pick for Iginla. He's expensive, old, and it doesn't solidify a weakness.
It's not completely that simple. He IS a serious upgrade from Stewart and if he'd played all year on the Blues in the Blues' system would have been the leading scorer by a clear margin. Not to mention the playoff leadership he'd provide. So there's an argument for having Iginla. But it's important not to overpay. The fact is, he isn't in Langenbrunner decline mode yet where he's just a role-player. Eventually he'll become that but there are X number of years left where he's an impact scorer and serious playoff factor. But this was one of those years and the Blues aren't getting the value of that. Iginla likely wants to win a Cup and would be willing to take a more reasonable salary in summer 2013 to be part of a perennial Cup threat for his remaining time. Before acquiring him, the Blues would need to do due diligence and confirm this, but it's pretty likely. And, if there's one single year when the Blues might be able to afford one big salary, it's next season. Ticket prices are going up and there should be some playoff revenue they can count on, not to mention new ownership groups, whether they can afford it or not, tend to want to give the fans a good faith sign that they're ready to compete. Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk don't get paid til the year after, and McDonald's salary comes off the books too, so there's certainly a way it could work.
But the price has to be right. For there to be room, Stewart has to go the other way. And the Blues can't overpay much beyond that. I'd probably be ok with Stewart and a 1st at the draft if new ownership okayed it. But Stewart and Rattie seems pricey. Particularly if Tarasenko surprises us and doesn't come, then I think such a deal makes even more sense, again, provided Stewart is the basis of a deal and Iginla just wants to be part of a winner.
Totally agree. It's not that I don't like him, he's a great player, but there seems to be too many Calgary fans on this site that think an expensive 35 year old is going to fetch the moon. With Rattie's obvious growth, he should be going nowhere fast. Stewart has to be the main piece for roster and financial reasons. I'm sure Calgary fans wouldn't even accept Stewart and a 1st, which I consider over-paying because it doesn't address the left d-man problem. I'd like to see Army get away with something like Stewart and a 2nd/Edmundson/Jaskin.
Iginla's price will be between what Calgary fans and what a bunch of people he think. Stewart and a 2nd/mid prospect just won't get it done, but Iginla won't get anything close to what Flames fans want.
I know I should concentrate on the playoffs, but hey, a thought popped in my head.
Lets assume Arnott retires because he wants to go out on top.
What do you think about signing Stoll in the off season. He would most likely be cheap because of his lack of offensive production. He is really good in the faceoff circle, and his past seasons he has put up decent offensive numbers. He could be our ideal 3rd line center that would fit under our budget. He is talented enough to play in all situations, but also not great enough to be signed shorter term and cheaper.
I know I should concentrate on the playoffs, but hey, a thought popped in my head.
Lets assume Arnott retires because he wants to go out on top.
What do you think about signing Stoll in the off season. He would most likely be cheap because of his lack of offensive production. He is really good in the faceoff circle, and his past seasons he has put up decent offensive numbers. He could be our ideal 3rd line center that would fit under our budget. He is talented enough to play in all situations, but also not great enough to be signed shorter term and cheaper.
Thoughts?
I remember back when we were talking Jack Johnson for Stewart with the Kings fans, and one fan said it had to be Johnson + Stoll for Stewart + Arnott and we balked. Stoll was awful this year. I mean horrible. He's also way overpaid. So he'd have to take a drastic pay cut to play here. Honestly Sobotka had the same numbers and he earns 1.3M while Stoll pulls down 3.4M and the Blues already have Sobotka under contract.
I remember back when we were talking Jack Johnson for Stewart with the Kings fans, and one fan said it had to be Johnson + Stoll for Stewart + Arnott and we balked. Stoll was awful this year. I mean horrible. He's also way overpaid. So he'd have to take a drastic pay cut to play here. Honestly Sobotka had the same numbers and he earns 1.3M while Stoll pulls down 3.4M and the Blues already have Sobotka under contract.
Just depends if management thinks he can get back to his 40 point self. I absolutely think he can rebound next season. Stoll shouldn't get much on the open market this season, but then again NHL free agency tends to get crazy.
Just depends if management thinks he can get back to his 40 point self. I absolutely think he can rebound next season. Stoll shouldn't get much on the open market this season, but then again NHL free agency tends to get crazy.
That kind of sounds like what we try to say to people to take Stewart. Stoll's disastrous year is one of the main reasons LA couldn't score. He's not a guy I'd look too closely at unless he'd take a rock bottom contract, something with a 1 in front of it.
That kind of sounds like what we try to say to people to take Stewart. Stoll's disastrous year is one of the main reasons LA couldn't score. He's not a guy I'd look too closely at unless he'd take a rock bottom contract, something with a 1 in front of it.
The highest I'd go would be 2.
I'm just trying to see if there is someone that can be a faceoff ace, but still capable enough offensively to play the 3rd line. He was the only name that could be that player. If Jokinen wanted to win the Cup, maybe we could sign him, but he sucks at faceoffs.
I'm just trying to see if there is someone that can be a faceoff ace, but still capable enough offensively to play the 3rd line. He was the only name that could be that player. If Jokinen wanted to win the Cup, maybe we could sign him, but he sucks at faceoffs.
Jokinen will likely be way out of our price range for the role he would play here.
I am wondering what Ana would have to give up to get Stewart's RFA rights. Please understand that I am lookign to get him to compliment our young core, not replace them. So please try to stay away from including RPG Fowler or Sbisa.
This is more of a "Value of" thread then a proposal.
I am wondering what Ana would have to give up to get Stewart's RFA rights. Please understand that I am lookign to get him to compliment our young core, not replace them. So please try to stay away from including RPG Fowler or Sbisa.
Also can he play both wings?
Thanks
He's only played the RW for as long as I've been watching him play.
The Blues aren't rebuilding, so if they're letting Stewart go for futures it's going to have to be a pretty enticing something coming back. If Anaheim isn't willing to do that, someone else around the league almost certainly would be.
If the focal point of the return is a roster player, the Blues would be looking to bolster the left side of their defense with a solid, cost-effective piece...think a #3 quality defenseman or better, with two-way ability. (Lydman doesn't qualify, IMO.)
Personally, I'm not seeing much of a fit with Anaheim.
I am wondering what Ana would have to give up to get Stewart's RFA rights. Please understand that I am lookign to get him to compliment our young core, not replace them. So please try to stay away from including RPG Fowler or Sbisa.
Also can he play both wings?
Thanks
Stewart + Blues 1st for Anaheim's 1st.
Rationale:
1. Blues only make a trade for a piece they need.
2. Anaheim doesn't have a 2d/3d line developed NHL center for spare, so scratch that off.
3. Anaheim doesn't have the spare top LD for Stewart + picks/touchable prospects.
4. Anaheim doesn't have an NHL ready top pair LD prospect for the Blues to target.
5. Anaheim's 2d doesn't get it done and the Blues don't want Anaheim's 2d plus pieces.
6. Obviously straight up for Anaheim's 1st is too lopsided.
7. Therefore this is pretty much the only deal that would give the Blues something they'd be interested in.
Analysis:
Is the value right? Probably. Would Anaheim want to do it? Probably not. Maybe. Who knows? But due to the foregoing, with Anaheim it's this or nothing. If someone signs Stewart to a sheet the Blues will get a 1st and 3d. So two firsts and a third for the 6th overall is legit. Difference being Anaheim doesn't have to wait for Stewart to develop, they can add him immediately.
Phoenix blew another late lead (6 seconds to go in the game, after blowing one with 14 seconds or so the first game). That has to be killing their fans. This time the team couldn't recover, and that series is now tied 1-1.
This has been an awesome playoffs to watch so far. Great games.
I'll say it again....Stewie back to Colorado for Duncan Siemens. If that's not enough, I'd include Ty Rattie. {Yes, I would!}
I wouldn't trade Rattie for Siemens straight up. Rattie's value has skyrocketed this year. Whether you suspect one will be better than the other is still up to personal choice but Rattie has turned into a blue-chip prospect and if they really wanted to move him they could get more. He's leading the WHL playoffs in goals and points after a year where he scored more than everyone in the WHL the previous twelve seasons. His value is WAY higher than when he was drafted.
Siemens actually went backwards in his production. Obviously, he's a defenseman so that's not automatically the most important thing and could be the result of teammates, but the idea you'd have to trade both is serious overpayment.
Hear me out. There are very few true 2way defencemen in the NHL. Lidstrom, Chara, (maybe) Yandle, Weber, Suter ... I honestly think that Siemens could be that guy, and if we have to give up another smallish forward (We still have Schwartz...) like Rattie to gain that, I would honestly say the 2-way defensive prospect is better than the one-way offensive one.
Hear me out. There are very few true 2way defencemen in the NHL. Lidstrom, Chara, (maybe) Yandle, Weber, Suter ... I honestly think that Siemens could be that guy, and if we have to give up another smallish forward (We still have Schwartz...) like Rattie to gain that, I would honestly say the 2-way defensive prospect is better than the one-way offensive one.
I understand the desire. I understand the need for that kind of player. But that doesn't mean they should dramatically overpay for it. That would be serious overpayment. Stewart + Rattie, Phoenix would have to add to Gormley to get that (not much, maybe a 2d round pick, but still).
Not necessarily straight up, but those are the key pieces. Win-win?
Not at all from our perspective, because we wouldn't look for a winger. Stewart has his issues but he's also shown far more than Paajarvi who seems to have tons of speed but little finish at this point. He might develop more but even with Stewart's down year he's shown much more. Paajarvi could well wind up being a bust.
But even if they were equal, the point is really about organizational needs first and foremost. The Blues' best three prospects are Tarasenko, Schwartz and Rattie, all skilled wingers. Schwartz is already on the roster, Tarasenko's due this summer and Rattie's not too distantly far away. If you look at how many players are under contract or will be under contract on the wings, it's incredibly crowded.
Unfortunately, Edmonton and the Blues aren't the best trading partners. For example, we'd love to get Smid and could put together a quality offer, but you aren't looking to subtract quality defensemen. You even have the wrong 1st round pick for a potential deal of Stewart + our first to move up: too high. Sometimes teams aren't matched well.
How about your 2013 1st for Stewart? That's the best counteroffer we can make right now. The way Edmonton plays wide-open offense Stewart would definitely rebound in numbers. If you look at the way he scored in Colorado, so many goals were using his speed off the rush with a wicked slapshot. On a line with some of your skilled young guns, I could definitely see him potting 30. On the Blues, it's so much about defense first that he can't fly the zone the way he could in Edmonton. And scoring off a cycle is something he never did in Colorado unless it was a blue moon. That's why he's not scoring in St. Louis in Hitchcock's system.
