No offense, but Phoenix hangs up instantly. They also have too many D bodies to take Cole back in a trade.
I think "hang up instantly" is a little strong. I agree it's probably not enough, but Perron is a very valuable asset, D'Ags is a quality player too. It would probably take one of Schwartz or Tarasenko to get them interested. That's an entire forward line being sent the other way that is in major need of quality forwards. I think they'd do it, but I wouldn't from the Blues end as I don't want to trade Perron for just about anyone. Behind Pietro, Tarasenko, and Backes, he's the most valuable Blue in my opinion.
I think "hang up instantly" is a little strong. I agree it's probably not enough, but Perron is a very valuable asset, D'Ags is a quality player too. It would probably take one of Schwartz or Tarasenko to get them interested. That's an entire forward line being sent the other way that is in major need of quality forwards. I think they'd do it, but I wouldn't from the Blues end as I don't want to trade Perron for just about anyone. Behind Pietro, Tarasenko, and Backes, he's the most valuable Blue in my opinion.
Yandle + 1st is approximately equal to how we value Pietrangelo, and I'd hang up instantly if that package were offered for Pietrangelo.
Oh. I didn't see the first added. Agreed, that wouldn't happen. Take out the first and I think it's reasonable. Perron, D'Ags, Schwartz for Yandle. I think they'd consider it.
Oh. I didn't see the first added. Agreed, that wouldn't happen. Take out the first and I think it's reasonable. Perron, D'Ags, Schwartz for Yandle. I think they'd consider it.
Well right but the offer I said they'd hang up on didn't have Schwartz, it had Cole. They have definite use for Schwartz and none for Cole. I also wouldn't offer Perron and Schwartz in the same deal. The Blues also wouldn't trade three roster wingers.
Oshie + 1st is probably the price that we'd have to pay for Yandle. Yandle and Oshie don't have the same value, but I'm sure Phoenix would be very interested if they could get Oshie. It's expensive. I think we could get Giordano for a bit cheaper. I think Oshie holds more trade value than Perron, and you can tell by the way Armstrong is talking about compensating them. I just don't have a lot of confidence that someone like D'Agostini holds lots of value. Yandle is a star player, and it would probably take Perron (top 6 forward) + Rattie (significant prospect, specifically forward) + 1st. The pressure on Phoenix to trade Yandle goes up if and when Doan leaves in free agency in a week. They already lost Whitney from the wing.
Oshie + 1st is probably the price that we'd have to pay for Yandle. Yandle and Oshie don't have the same value, but I'm sure Phoenix would be very interested if they could get Oshie. It's expensive. I think we could get Giordano for a bit cheaper. I think Oshie holds more trade value than Perron, and you can tell by the way Armstrong is talking about compensating them. I just don't have a lot of confidence that someone like D'Agostini holds lots of value. Yandle is a star player, and it would probably take Perron (top 6 forward) + Rattie (significant prospect, specifically forward) + 1st. The pressure on Phoenix to trade Yandle goes up if and when Doan leaves in free agency in a week. They already lost Whitney from the wing.
That price scares the hell out of me. Maybe Phoenix bites on Stewy, Rattie, and a 2nd? Maybe add a 3rd the next season as well?
I'd really much rather trade Stewy at this point, even if he has the higher upside. Losing Rattie, Stewy, and a good pick in the same trade would be a hard pill to swallow but it just might be worth it for an all-star like Yandle.
After the Roy trade today, and Buffalo acquiring another 2+ Million LHD in Adam Pardy...You've gotta think that Armstrong is giving Regier a call. I still think Leopold would be a good target as I doubt Ehrhoff would be available for anything less than an arm and a leg. Sekera would be worth checking into as well.
Sekera would be a perfect fit in STL (26 yrs old, 3 yrs left on his deal), but I think BUF is really high on him. Leopold (32 yrs old) will be a UFA next summer, so I'm not as interested as I could be.
With Salvador re-signing in NJ, I wouldn't be surprised if Greene or Tallinder get moved. Should STL be interested in either of them?
Sekera would be a perfect fit in STL (26 yrs old, 3 yrs left on his deal), but I think BUF is really high on him. Leopold (32 yrs old) will be a UFA next summer, so I'm not as interested as I could be.
With Salvador re-signing in NJ, I wouldn't be surprised if Greene or Tallinder get moved. Should STL be interested in either of them?
I was just going to come in here to ask about Tallinder. I haven't seen that much of him but I remember liking what I saw in my limited viewing. He did miss more than half the season with a blood clot issue. Looks like he's owed 3.3 for the next 2 years so it seems like the salary would fit if the blues thought he was a good stop gap solution on the left side. If it doesn't cost more than a 2nd and a b prospect what's everybody's take?
I know most people want a legit number 2 d in that spot, but this would mainly be a stop-gap if Army can't pull anything off in trade or free agency. I'm also in the camp that would be fine with letting Cole play a good chunk of games to see how he does instead of bringing in an overpaid vet. So I'm not sure what I think on this. What does everybody else think? I know it's top pairing LHD or bust, but if that can't happen this season then what?
Do the Blues NEED a stop-gap measure? I think Cole is fine in that regard. They've signed some depth. The issue last year was that Cole was the guy that wasn't exposed to waivers if he went up and down.
I think Armstrong either pulls "the deal" that brings in the guy he wants in that role, or he waits until he can do it later.
I wouldn't really want us to go after Yandle when I look at what the Coyotes would, legitimately, want.
Also, am I the only one that doesn't really see a need for a Yandle-Pietrangelo/Suter-Pietrangelo/elite guy-Pietrangelo pairing? It is overkill in the vast majority of situations. If we were to have another elite defenseman, then I'd want him on another pairing the majority of the time and for both guys to have solid partners who compliment their game.
I wouldn't really want us to go after Yandle when I look at what the Coyotes would, legitimately, want.
Also, am I the only one that doesn't really see a need for a Yandle-Pietrangelo/Suter-Pietrangelo/elite guy-Pietrangelo pairing? It is overkill in the vast majority of situations. If we were to have another elite defenseman, then I'd want him on another pairing the majority of the time and for both guys to have solid partners who compliment their game.
1)agreed, he`s too expensive IMO
2)I`m with you again. It would make us significantly better but as you saw last year we have a great D already. but without a doubt it would be a HUGH boost especially since the whole NHL knows how to beat the Blues: send your 4th-line-scrub, break Petros neck, beat em.
It wasn`t even a bad attack but I expect worse to come and if we would have had another legit top-D-man who keeps a cool head and calms this young team down we might haven`t got this SHG and might have scored one or two times on this PP and the whole series would have looked way different...maybe
Also, am I the only one that doesn't really see a need for a Yandle-Pietrangelo/Suter-Pietrangelo/elite guy-Pietrangelo pairing? It is overkill in the vast majority of situations. If we were to have another elite defenseman, then I'd want him on another pairing the majority of the time and for both guys to have solid partners who compliment their game.
I completely agree. If we make a trade for a top defenseman, I want us to use them like we did Pronger and MacInnis. We could have 2 elite defenders on the ice for upwards of 50 minutes a game.
I completely agree. If we make a trade for a top defenseman, I want us to use them like we did Pronger and MacInnis. We could have 2 elite defenders on the ice for upwards of 50 minutes a game.
That is also what I would do, and what many of the best coaches have done. If you have an elite defenceman on the ice over 90% of your game, you are tougher to score against. Putting both on the same shift, you might prevent a few more goals against the opponent's best players, but that's during a time when you've already got a pretty good defence with just one of the 2 elite D-men, and your #3. Then, you are much more susceptible to being scored upon on your 2nd shift, against your #3 and #4 D-men. It worked with Pronger and MacInnis, and many others in that same situation.
Sabres have currently very expensive (cap hit over 24 million) defense and they might be looking for a trade so i'm wondering could Jordan Leopold be a good temporary solution for the top-4 left d-man problem? He is experienced but not tool old (32 when season begins) and his contract isn't that bad either (caphit 3 million, expires next summer).
I was just going to come in here to ask about Tallinder. I haven't seen that much of him but I remember liking what I saw in my limited viewing. He did miss more than half the season with a blood clot issue. Looks like he's owed 3.3 for the next 2 years so it seems like the salary would fit if the blues thought he was a good stop gap solution on the left side. If it doesn't cost more than a 2nd and a b prospect what's everybody's take?
I know most people want a legit number 2 d in that spot, but this would mainly be a stop-gap if Army can't pull anything off in trade or free agency. I'm also in the camp that would be fine with letting Cole play a good chunk of games to see how he does instead of bringing in an overpaid vet. So I'm not sure what I think on this. What does everybody else think? I know it's top pairing LHD or bust, but if that can't happen this season then what?
I would love to see what Cole can do in that spot. I have a feeling once he is given that spot, he would flourish. Time to take the training wheels off. He and Petro could be the perfect fit.
First is acquire a legitimate top-caliber defenseman. Someone who is a clear top-pairing option. Giordano, Yandle, M.Staal.
Second is a stop gap, a player who can perform the job but the team remains looking to improve the spot when the opportunity arises. Cole is an in-house option for this and is cheap.
Third is pay a big salary to a player who is very unlikely to be the right player, but nevertheless the contract strangles flexibility. Carle and Bouwmeester are examples of these guys.
What's weird is reportedly the Blues are interested in both the first and third options.
Yes, Jaybo's contract is a lot, but it won't strangle us. It only has 2 years left, and in that time, the only major extension is Pietrangelo's. Shattenkirk shouldn't really get a huge extenstion. Maybe if Stewart breaks out things could get complicated, but that just means we can let go of McDonald. Bouwmeester's contract really isn't that big of an issue if we can handle the money in the short-term.
Bouwmeester's issue is if he is the right guy. He is definitely an upgrade over what we had, but how much of an upgrade would he be. Personally I wouldn't give up significant assets for him, and I don't even know if I would trade for him.
Last edited by bleedblue1223: 07-03-2012 at 11:25 PM.
He would strangle it for two years for sure. This year and next. This year McDonald's salary is on the team and even if he departs or that $$ comes down, Pietrangelo will get a huge bump the following year. Two years is a long time to not have flexibility. The next two playoff runs will have a lot of expectations. If they don't have the right personnel on the ice, that's a disaster.
There is no point in having flexibility if you don't use that flexibility.
We have offensive depth, so even if there is an injury or 2, I don't think we would need to use that flexibility on a forward. If our offense is struggling, most likely that will mean Stewart is useless again, so we can dump him and gain flexibility for the trade deadline.
If say Bouwmeester doesn't work out on defense, then that is all on Army and Hitch, and I seriously doubt they would have that bad of judgement on a player's fit. Pietrangelo made Colaiacovo and Huskins look good, so he can definitely make Bouwmeester look good. It won't be a disaster.
Between this summer and next summer, Bouwmeester won't affect us keeping or losing any of the talent that we already have, except the pieces that it takes to get him. We don't need that flexibility on offense or in goal. His contract won't strangle us.
The only way I see a contract strangling us if it is at least 3 years long.
Sign Cola for 1-2 years, something around 2,5-3 mil./year
Try to trade him and something else for JayB.
If we fail, we still have Carlo. IF He is healthy, can put up decent numbers, and being paired with Petro, will look better.
Petro WILL dominate, no matter who plays with him. Guy will definitely fight to be paired with our future Norris Winner
I don't like too much of Carlos game, but if you look at the market.. Carle?!? Is He really so much better, worth paying Double money and extension?
Sabres have currently very expensive (cap hit over 24 million) defense and they might be looking for a trade so i'm wondering could Jordan Leopold be a good temporary solution for the top-4 left d-man problem? He is experienced but not tool old (32 when season begins) and his contract isn't that bad either (caphit 3 million, expires next summer).
Had a look on their board yesterday and they were talking about Berglund for Leopold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifetimebluesfan
Not trying to troll here, just looking for your thoughts. What if we made a trade to NYR? Get a LHD and third line center.
STL:
M. Staal
Anisimov
NYR:
Perron or Oshie
Cole
Rattie
Draft pick
No interest in that at all. To be honest, with the Hurricanes signing Jordan, I'd have very limited expectations of Marc signing an extension for when his contract is up in 3 years. Not going to trade a core piece and 3 pieces of our future for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesBrother
Might be too risky, but:
Sign Cola for 1-2 years, something around 2,5-3 mil./year
Try to trade him and something else for JayB.
If we fail, we still have Carlo. IF He is healthy, can put up decent numbers, and being paired with Petro, will look better.
Petro WILL dominate, no matter who plays with him. Guy will definitely fight to be paired with our future Norris Winner
I don't like too much of Carlos game, but if you look at the market.. Carle?!? Is He really so much better, worth paying Double money and extension?
You never sign an UFA and trade him right away. Not that I think the Flames would have any interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223
There is no point in having flexibility if you don't use that flexibility.
We have offensive depth, so even if there is an injury or 2, I don't think we would need to use that flexibility on a forward. If our offense is struggling, most likely that will mean Stewart is useless again, so we can dump him and gain flexibility for the trade deadline.
If say Bouwmeester doesn't work out on defense, then that is all on Army and Hitch, and I seriously doubt they would have that bad of judgement on a player's fit. Pietrangelo made Colaiacovo and Huskins look good, so he can definitely make Bouwmeester look good. It won't be a disaster.
Between this summer and next summer, Bouwmeester won't affect us keeping or losing any of the talent that we already have, except the pieces that it takes to get him. We don't need that flexibility on offense or in goal. His contract won't strangle us.
The only way I see a contract strangling us if it is at least 3 years long.
To an extent you I agree, but he is still getting paid $13.2m over the next 2 seasons. As you said, Pietrangelo made Cola and Huskins look good, so if that is what we are relying on with Bouwmeester, then why would we be interested.
While the contract wouldn't prevent us signing any of our players to extensions, it could limit options if a trade target became available or for us being in the running for the UFA's next summer.
