HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Blues Trade Proposals - Part 2

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-05-2012, 07:40 AM
  #976
sdaltons
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 188
vCash: 500
i just suggested this idea on Blues Talk, but i'm interested in getting the perspective of the people here as well.

What about the Devils as a trading partner?

Once they re-sign Fayne, they will have 8 defensemen on their roster. They will definitely be looking for some scoring help with Parise gone. Lou says Larsson will be in the top-6 next season, which means someone else from the top-6 will have to move to make room.

Mark Fayne
Andy Greene
Peter Harrold
Adam Larsson
Bryce Salvador
Henrik Tallinder
Anton Volchenkov
Marek Zidlicky

Right off the bat we can eliminate Peter Harrold (let's face it, he's not the one holding Larsson back), Adam Larsson, and Bryce Salvador (they wouldn't have signed him just to trade him). From the Blues perspective, we can also eliminate Mark Fayne and Marek Zidlicky, as they are both righties.

That leaves:

Andy Greene
age 29, 5'11'', 194, $3,000,000
56 GP, 16 pts, 16 PIMs, +3

Henrik Tallinder
age 33, 6'3'', 209, $3,375,000
39 GP, 6 pts, 16 PIMs, -11

Anton Volchenkov
age 30, 6'2'', 225, $4,250,000
72 GP, 11 pts, 34 PIMs, +3

So if we start the offer with Chris Stewart, who is due $3,000,000, we are already pretty close on each of the three salary-wise.

Obviously only Lou knows who he would be willing to deal from the group, and it might not even be one of these three, but if it is, this is definitely a route I'd explore.

So my question is, REALISTICALLY, which player would you be interested in adding and what, in addition to Stewart, would make for a fair offer?

sdaltons is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 09:54 AM
  #977
SirPaste
Registered User
 
SirPaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 6,995
vCash: 50
Out of that group Volchenkov easily, I have no idea how they value him in NJ though so wouldnt know what to offer.

SirPaste is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 09:59 AM
  #978
Lifetimebluesfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 89
vCash: 500
Someone over on the stltoday forums suggested acquiring the rights for rfa Justin Falk from minnesota for a second rounder and I think if the rangers sign Semin we should go after Boyle to get the third line center, again maybe a second could do it?

Lifetimebluesfan is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:14 AM
  #979
JustOneB4IDie
Everyone Overpayment
 
JustOneB4IDie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,381
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
Out of that group Volchenkov easily, I have no idea how they value him in NJ though so wouldnt know what to offer.
agreed on Volchenkov... however, Lou L still runs the Devils and there is a History of animosity between the Devils and the Blues with the Shanahan Stevens fiasco back in the day I'd rather look to the Rangers myself.

JustOneB4IDie is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:23 AM
  #980
Dolph Ziggler
IC Champion
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 9,142
vCash: 50
Would anyone here trade Perron or Oshie for Pavelski?

Apparently he's available for a top 6 winger

Dolph Ziggler is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:26 AM
  #981
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Would anyone here trade Perron or Oshie for Pavelski?

Apparently he's available for a top 6 winger
I'd trade Perron for Pavelski but I'd be surprised if that happened.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:26 AM
  #982
ManyIdeas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 1152
Eh, maybe perron, but I value oshies defensive play too much. That and oshie brings in more revenue

ManyIdeas is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:40 AM
  #983
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,338
vCash: 50
I thought Pavelski was a center. He's listed as a winger on their site. I wouldn't trade Perron for him unless he's actually a center. I think they will be virtually the same production wise, but we drafted Perron so he'd probably be more likely to sign long term.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:50 AM
  #984
JustOneB4IDie
Everyone Overpayment
 
JustOneB4IDie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Country: United States
Posts: 3,381
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I thought Pavelski was a center. He's listed as a winger on their site. I wouldn't trade Perron for him unless he's actually a center. I think they will be virtually the same production wise, but we drafted Perron so he'd probably be more likely to sign long term.
I doubt it. Oshie will get a 3-4 year deal and Perron due to the concussion will only get a max offer of 2 years IMO.

JustOneB4IDie is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 10:56 AM
  #985
CarvinSigX
Registered User
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 8,037
vCash: 2616
I just asked on the Pavelski thread what prospect it would take on top of Perron. We'll at least get a decent counter offer if it doesn't involve one of our big 5 prospects.

CarvinSigX is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:00 AM
  #986
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
I wouldn't add anything meaningful on top of Perron. If the Blues have to add anything more significant than a 3d round pick, forget it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I thought Pavelski was a center. He's listed as a winger on their site. I wouldn't trade Perron for him unless he's actually a center. I think they will be virtually the same production wise, but we drafted Perron so he'd probably be more likely to sign long term.
Yeah, he is a center, he played center against us in the playoffs. He's versatile, can play both. The Blues would only consider this trade if they intended to use Pavelski as a center. If it were just a swap of wingers I agree with you there's little point.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:11 AM
  #987
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
If Pavelski is actually made available, I'd rather go after him than Yandle.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:12 AM
  #988
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifetimebluesfan View Post
Someone over on the stltoday forums suggested acquiring the rights for rfa Justin Falk from minnesota for a second rounder and I think if the rangers sign Semin we should go after Boyle to get the third line center, again maybe a second could do it?
I don't see how that improves us or if either of those trades would actually happen.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:23 AM
  #989
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If Pavelski is actually made available, I'd rather go after him than Yandle.
It's not either/or. They need a defenseman. They don't really need Pavelski, he's just a great player that most if not all teams would love to have, but so is Perron. Perron for Pavelski would simply be an adjustment to add a player who could play center. They have equal offensive production rates.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:27 AM
  #990
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,338
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
I doubt it. Oshie will get a 3-4 year deal and Perron due to the concussion will only get a max offer of 2 years IMO.
I meant in the future. I'm not saying right now they will sign career contracts. I just think that most players stay loyal to the team that drafted them unless there are some other circumstances. I meant Perron is more likely to sign another deal after the one he is about to get expires.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:28 AM
  #991
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
I still don't see Berglund developing into a consistent top 6 center, and I think having Pavelski, Backes, and Berglund down the middle makes us much better.

I think Cole is good enough to get the job done and develop enough to be what we need in the playoffs.

The difference in cost of assets between the 2 is enough for me to prefer Pavelski. Pavelski will allow Backes and Berglund to be more productive.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:33 AM
  #992
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,338
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I still don't see Berglund developing into a consistent top 6 center, and I think having Pavelski, Backes, and Berglund down the middle makes us much better.

I think Cole is good enough to get the job done and develop enough to be what we need in the playoffs.

The difference in cost of assets between the 2 is enough for me to prefer Pavelski. Pavelski will allow Backes and Berglund to be more productive.
It depends on what you consider a Top 6 center. Last year, he struggled pretty bad at the beginning, but that could also be attributed to the fact that he was centering a line with Stewart and D'Ags, who were also struggling pretty bad. He will be a 20 goal 30 assist player who plays solid D. I'd consider that a top 6 forward. His assists might go up if Tarasenko develops into the 70 point scoring winger that he has the potential to be. Bergie wasn't great last year, but he still has a ton of potential. If only we could get him to unleash that rocket of a wrister he's got more often

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:35 AM
  #993
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
At this point I'd be happy if they traded Schwartz for Gormley and re-signed Langenbrunner or similar and call themselves done.

Gormley is going to be a top-pairing guy in the NHL. It might be immediate, it might take a year or two until he's really comfortable. Here are the last eight WJC best defenseman award winners:

Brandon Gormley
Ryan Ellis
Alex Pietrangelo
Erik Karlsson
Drew Doughty
Erik Johnson
Marc Staal
Dion Phaneuf

Gormley is a top talent on defense. Schwartz going to Phoenix makes sense. They are already loaded with top NHL defensemen and have plenty of top end prospects on D in the pipeline even without Gormley. But they are dry on top end forward talent and have lost Whitney and may lose Doan.

So Gormley could come right out of the gate the way Pietrangelo played two years after being drafted, or he could take some time blending in. The Blues with Cole would certainly be able to bridge any regular season time it might take Gormley to adjust.

Plus, you give up Schwartz, yeah that hurts but you have McDonald, Perron, Steen and Sobotka this year and the latter three are young for awhile. Plus there's Grachev, Veillieux and Tesink in their development stages now, with guys like Kurker and Maceachern starting their development, and obviously future drafts. Heck, maybe they'd even get lucky and land Doan. But the point is they wouldn't be hurting on the wings at any time, and they've solved the top-end dman problem. Yes, Yandle is an immediate fix and Gormley isn't quite settled in yet, but if you trade for Yandle you are definitely giving up someone off the roster you've been relying on.

PocketNines is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:36 AM
  #994
Chojin
Tiny Panger...
 
Chojin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,261
vCash: 645
Pavelski makes a ton of money and has a history of not showing up in the playoffs. No thanks.

Chojin is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:39 AM
  #995
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
It depends on what you consider a Top 6 center. Last year, he struggled pretty bad at the beginning, but that could also be attributed to the fact that he was centering a line with Stewart and D'Ags, who were also struggling pretty bad. He will be a 20 goal 30 assist player who plays solid D. I'd consider that a top 6 forward. His assists might go up if Tarasenko develops into the 70 point scoring winger that he has the potential to be. Bergie wasn't great last year, but he still has a ton of potential. If only we could get him to unleash that rocket of a wrister he's got more often
He has never been a consistent player. I've been a big fan of Berglund, but if's and potential are words that he should've grown out of by now. Berglund would be good enough on the 2nd line if we had a legit scoring 1st line center. It's not like he was scoring all that much once Dags and Stewart were taken off his line.

He had a great series against San Jose, and followed it up with 0 points against LA. That is not good enough to be our 2nd line center.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:43 AM
  #996
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Pavelski makes a ton of money and has a history of not showing up in the playoffs. No thanks.
4 million per year for the next 2 years, that's not a lot.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:45 AM
  #997
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,338
vCash: 50
I wouldn't say that. His team has a history of not showing up in the playoffs. 38 points in 63 games is right around his career average in PPG. It's less, but that could be due to the extra defensive pressure, and less penalties in the playoffs. This year he did nothing, but 08-09 he had 17 points in 15 games. Which, coincidentally was the season in which he played the least amount of games during the regular season not including his rookie year. Maybe that's a sign that he gets worn out after a long regular season? Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much and he just hasn't produced as much in the playoffs as he has in the regular season.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:46 AM
  #998
Alklha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
Pavelski makes a ton of money and has a history of not showing up in the playoffs. No thanks.
At $4m it isn't like he is on a bad contract. We beat the Sharks pretty comfortably this year and shut him down, but in the 2 prior years he was 14-13-27 in 33 playoff games.

When it comes to Gormley, I'm a huge fan, but I think that the Coyotes will want a proven NHL player going back in a deal. I suspect they would probably want Perron or Berglund for Gormley+

Alklha is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:48 AM
  #999
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,338
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He has never been a consistent player. I've been a big fan of Berglund, but if's and potential are words that he should've grown out of by now. Berglund would be good enough on the 2nd line if we had a legit scoring 1st line center. It's not like he was scoring all that much once Dags and Stewart were taken off his line.

He had a great series against San Jose, and followed it up with 0 points against LA. That is not good enough to be our 2nd line center.
Nobody scored in that series. You can't just single out Bergie for that. He has been inconsistent, but I think he's shown enough flashes of being a great player to warrant a top 6 spot. Now if we bring in someone like Pavelski and can move him down to the third line, great. I think he's an acceptable 2nd line center now, with the ability to become a good/great second line center.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
07-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #1000
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,619
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Nobody scored in that series. You can't just single out Bergie for that. He has been inconsistent, but I think he's shown enough flashes of being a great player to warrant a top 6 spot. Now if we bring in someone like Pavelski and can move him down to the third line, great. I think he's an acceptable 2nd line center now, with the ability to become a good/great second line center.
I know everyone sucked in that series, I'm just pointing out that he is still very inconsistent. That inconsistency to me, means he isn't ready to be a top 6 center on a team that wants to win the Cup. We need a lot more offense from everyone if we want to win the Cup. If the Backes line is shutting the other top line down, then the Berglund line has to score, and he has not shown the consistency that he can do that.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.