Pagula should get an OHL team, as it will fit well with player development, for pro leagues. Also, Buffalo will get alot of the American kids that dont want to come across the border and play in Ontario cities.
Whatever Cherry did, we can debate, but at the end of the day, it hasnt worked. The Majors could have had the Ricoh centre before the Marlies went in there, while they were contemplating a move out of the St. Michael's Arena.
All I am saying is that GTA kids and families have too much on their plates and dont care to see OHL games. We have Leafs, Raptors, Marlies, Rock, TFC, Blue Jays, etc.... Kids and families in the burbs dont have this selection and their only entertainment is OHL or JR. A or JR. B games. For this reason, suburban, remote teams like Kitchener, London, Niagara, all succeed on the ice and at the gate.
It is tough enough to support 1 GTA OHL team, never mind 2.
Pagula should get an OHL team, as it will fit well with player development, for pro leagues. Also, Buffalo will get alot of the American kids that dont want to come across the border and play in Ontario cities.
Whatever Cherry did, we can debate, but at the end of the day, it hasnt worked. The Majors could have had the Ricoh centre before the Marlies went in there, while they were contemplating a move out of the St. Michael's Arena.
All I am saying is that GTA kids and families have too much on their plates and dont care to see OHL games. We have Leafs, Raptors, Marlies, Rock, TFC, Blue Jays, etc.... Kids and families in the burbs dont have this selection and their only entertainment is OHL or JR. A or JR. B games. For this reason, suburban, remote teams like Kitchener, London, Niagara, all succeed on the ice and at the gate.
It is tough enough to support 1 GTA OHL team, never mind 2.
I really don't get that arguement. In Windsor, we have the Red Wings, Tigers, Pistons and Lions right at our door steps, yet the Spitfires with the most expensive tickets in the OHL have no problem attracting crowds. I'd say about 10 percent of Joe Louis Arena are windsorites, and there's plenty of us left in our city of 200k to support our OHL team.
The pro leagues are irrelevent to how the OHL does in a market.
Pagula should get an OHL team, as it will fit well with player development, for pro leagues. Also, Buffalo will get alot of the American kids that dont want to come across the border and play in Ontario cities.
Whatever Cherry did, we can debate, but at the end of the day, it hasnt worked. The Majors could have had the Ricoh centre before the Marlies went in there, while they were contemplating a move out of the St. Michael's Arena.
All I am saying is that GTA kids and families have too much on their plates and dont care to see OHL games. We have Leafs, Raptors, Marlies, Rock, TFC, Blue Jays, etc.... Kids and families in the burbs dont have this selection and their only entertainment is OHL or JR. A or JR. B games. For this reason, suburban, remote teams like Kitchener, London, Niagara, all succeed on the ice and at the gate.
It is tough enough to support 1 GTA OHL team, never mind 2.
While i can see you point to a degree what i think bugs people is how cocky some toronto how some fans are they pick on any market that does not sell out every game and claim there the worlds best hockey market yet they have a hard time supporting anything but nhl.
Fans in most areas will support the best product out there. If NHL is there, then they will support it. If AHL is best ticket there, then that team will be supported. If OHL team is best product in town/city then they will be the team of choice, and so on....
Its not about Toronto, its about what a City has to offer.
As mentioned before, Toronto has too many teams, and fans cant support all the teams. So they pick the best.
Majors couldnt even sell out the Mem Cup. That's 5000 seats for 8-9 games. Only games that were sellouts were the games that Owen Sound played in, because 2000-2500 fans made the 2 1/2 hour trip to Mississauga.
I really don't get that arguement. In Windsor, we have the Red Wings, Tigers, Pistons and Lions right at our door steps, yet the Spitfires with the most expensive tickets in the OHL have no problem attracting crowds. I'd say about 10 percent of Joe Louis Arena are windsorites, and there's plenty of us left in our city of 200k to support our OHL team.
The pro leagues are irrelevent to how the OHL does in a market.
That argument could be extended to the WHL, too. Vancouver does VERY well for itself, as does Calgary. Edmonton less so, but it doesn't embarrass, either.
While i can see you point to a degree what i think bugs people is how cocky some toronto how some fans are they pick on any market that does not sell out every game and claim there the worlds best hockey market yet they have a hard time supporting anything but nhl.
I see your issues now. I get your bias, but heres my question again.
You claimed that Hamilton would be in the backyard of two teams, Im still trying to figure out who those two teams are?
Im not a cocky fan, Im simply looking for someone to clarify their statements.
I understand your point, but remember those cities- Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton, dont have a Pro Baseball Team, or Pro Basketball Team, or an affiliated AHL team in their respective cities.
IMHO, there is too much to do in Toronto, and us fans can only spread our dollars so thin.
what else do they need to discuss between the two parties that they havnt already?
Quote:
Council postpones vote on bringing OHL team to Hamilton
The city has postponed a vote that would have officially approved bringing an Ontario Hockey League team to Hamilton.
Councillors were expected to hear a presentation Monday outlining a proposal from an existing OHL team—which sources say is the Erie Otters—looking to make the move to Hamilton. Council is being asked to approve a memorandum of understanding that would allow the team to play at the Dave Andreychuk Mountain Arena for as long as five years beginning this fall.
Fans in most areas will support the best product out there. If NHL is there, then they will support it. If AHL is best ticket there, then that team will be supported. If OHL team is best product in town/city then they will be the team of choice, and so on....
Its not about Toronto, its about what a City has to offer.
As mentioned before, Toronto has too many teams, and fans cant support all the teams. So they pick the best.
Majors couldnt even sell out the Mem Cup. That's 5000 seats for 8-9 games. Only games that were sellouts were the games that Owen Sound played in, because 2000-2500 fans made the 2 1/2 hour trip to Mississauga.
Your arguement still makes absolutely no sense. The Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions, and Detroit Red Wings are within 5km of downtown Windsor. A HUGE number of people from Windsor attend these 3 Pro teams home games on a regular basis, however, even with the NHL, NFL, and MLB a stones throw away, our OHL team still thrives.
On the other hand, the Hershey Centre is over 30km from the home of the Leafs, Blue Jays, Argos, etc. Heck, Mississauga doesn't even the NFL to compete with.
If anything, there's actually much more choice in the Windsor area when it comes to professional sports.
Junior and Minor teams can co-exist just fine with Pro teams in most other markets. ckg927 already brought up the Vancouver Giants.
The Ottawa 67's is another good example.
What about the Calgary Hitmen? They still have no problem attracting well over 7000 per game in the land of the Flames.
How about the Edmonton Oil Kings? Their attendance was over 10,000 on Wednesday against Kelowna and is typically well over 7000 as well.
Your argument doesn't seem to hold water in any other professional sports market other than the GTA.
1. Why exactly is there a push for Pegula to get into the OHL and bring it to Buffalo? Doesn't he have enough on his hands with the Sabres and getting Penn State's D1 program up and running?
Agreed.....I doubt very much that a guy who donates $60,000,000+/- to get an arena built and a NCAA D1 hockey team up and going would then go ahead and fund a CHL team!
It would seem to me that at least the NCAA wouldn't be too fond of Mr Pegula!
I understand your point, but remember those cities- Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton, dont have a Pro Baseball Team, or Pro Basketball Team, or an affiliated AHL team in their respective cities.
IMHO, there is too much to do in Toronto, and us fans can only spread our dollars so thin.
True. Also, the Leafs are #1 in most people's minds up there. And the Blue Jays, TFC, Raptors, Argos and Marlies are basically there to fight for whatever table scraps are left when it comes to entertainment dollars. The Majors and Batallion may not even factor much in the equation.
I see your issues now. I get your bias, but heres my question again.
You claimed that Hamilton would be in the backyard of two teams, Im still trying to figure out who those two teams are?
Im not a cocky fan, Im simply looking for someone to clarify their statements.
You may not be cocky but many fans are they will pick on any market that a nhl game and at the same time say there the worlds best hockey market as Look t Mississauga/Brampton and to a lesser degree Niagara fans will travel to see game in those city's.
You may not be cocky but many fans are they will pick on any market that a nhl game and at the same time say there the worlds best hockey market as Look t Mississauga/Brampton and to a lesser degree Niagara fans will travel to see game in those city's.
Ill ask again, who's backyard will Hamilton be in, I don't understand that statment, and you've refused to clarify.
The Bulldogs have one year left on their lease, I think? The Otters will sign a one year extension and then viola .... the Bulldogs move ship to Quebec and the Otters will leave Erie and go to Hamilton and everybody will be happy.
I'll make a better prediction: Nothing happens. Everything remains status quo.
And we all wind up with egg on our faces for wasting so many pages over the possibility of Hamilton failing at the OHL for a FOURTH time!
ETR: Thanks for the props. I should also note that the 67s will be moving into Scotiabank Place for the next 2 seasons thanks to work being done at the Ottawa Civic Centre/Lansdowne Park.-bringing to 3 the number of NHL facilities who share the ice with a major junior team.
Ill ask again, who's backyard will Hamilton be in, I don't understand that statment, and you've refused to clarify.
I have talked to people in the Hamilton area who go to see games in the gta now is it every home game no is it many fans no but some fans do travel to other markets you add Hamilton are those fans going to still travel to other markets i don't think so i could be wrong but thats my feeling is they want travel to the other markets as much and thats my only point.
I had to read your rebuttal to one of my points at least 10 times to clarify your point, and to see if it actually addressed my point??
How many OHL teams are close to Windsor? Within 1 hr drive from centre of Toronto, you can visit 6 OHL teams. One hour drive from Windsor, I dont think you hit another OHL team, except for maybe Sarnia.
Also, as I indicated before and you fail to realize, I referred to suburb/remote areas do succeed, and not Metropolitan centres, when it comes to Jr. Hockey. I wouldnt consider Windsor a Metropolitan type city like Toronto, or Vancouver or Montreal.
On a given night in Toronto, you can have a Marlie game, or a Leaf Game or a Majors Game or Battalion game. Too much to do in Toronto.
Yes, Calgary and Vancouver have successful Jr. teams, but as I mentioned before, what other pro teams do those cities have besides the NHL. NONE. Maybe soccer or Lacrosse.
If it were exactly as you have indicated, than a population of nearly 4 million people in the GTA area shouldnt have any problems supporting a couple of OHL teams. But reality is , Brampton and Mississauga suffer at the gate.
For an OHL/JR team to succeed, it usually must be the major sports team in town, with some exceptions.
I had to read your rebuttal to one of my points at least 10 times to clarify your point, and to see if it actually addressed my point??
How many OHL teams are close to Windsor? Within 1 hr drive from centre of Toronto, you can visit 6 OHL teams. One hour drive from Windsor, I dont think you hit another OHL team, except for maybe Sarnia.
Also, as I indicated before and you fail to realize, I referred to suburb/remote areas do succeed, and not Metropolitan centres, when it comes to Jr. Hockey. I wouldnt consider Windsor a Metropolitan type city like Toronto, or Vancouver or Montreal.
On a given night in Toronto, you can have a Marlie game, or a Leaf Game or a Majors Game or Battalion game. Too much to do in Toronto.
Yes, Calgary and Vancouver have successful Jr. teams, but as I mentioned before, what other pro teams do those cities have besides the NHL. NONE. Maybe soccer or Lacrosse.
If it were exactly as you have indicated, than a population of nearly 4 million people in the GTA area shouldnt have any problems supporting a couple of OHL teams. But reality is , Brampton and Mississauga suffer at the gate.
For an OHL/JR team to succeed, it usually must be the major sports team in town, with some exceptions.
Sure there is lots to do in Toronto just as there are lots to do in Montreal,Ottawa,Vancouver,Calgary yes in some cases you can't have any other major teams but in some cases you can it all depends on the market.
I have talked to people in the Hamilton area who go to see games in the gta now is it every home game no is it many fans no but some fans do travel to other markets you add Hamilton are those fans going to still travel to other markets i don't think so i could be wrong but thats my feeling is they want travel to the other markets as much and thats my only point.
I know what your saying Sir, but what your not doing is answering my question.
You made a statement that moving a team to Hamilton would put them in the backyard of two teams.
What teams are those? This is my third time trying to find out, and It seems like your avoiding the answer.
Im not fan of blanket general statements that dont make sense, so I want to be sure what two teams you where refering to before making that judgement.
I know what your saying Sir, but what your not doing is answering my question.
You made a statement that moving a team to Hamilton would put them in the backyard of two teams.
What teams are those? This is my third time trying to find out, and It seems like your avoiding the answer.
Im not fan of blanket general statements that dont make sense, so I want to be sure what two teams you where refering to before making that judgement.
I really did not say there in Hamilton's backyard what i am saying is there are a fair amount of teams with in a short drive now i hope Hamilton does well and wish them all the best i just have some concerns if they will get the support some seem to think we people say they will get easy 6000-7000 if they did play at the Copps.
I really did not say there in Hamilton's backyard what i am saying is there are a fair amount of teams with in a short drive now i hope Hamilton does well and wish them all the best i just have some concerns if they will get the support some seem to think we people say they will get easy 6000-7000 if they did play at the Copps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan
Well if it is i hope fans are ready to step and support the team 3 teams in such a small area travel wise does concern me.
Your right, you didnt say backyard. You said three teams in a small area.
So again, who are the other two teams in that small area?
Your right, you didnt say backyard. You said three teams in a small area.
So again, who are the other two teams in that small area?
By small area i mean a 2 hour drive i am not saying your going to have thousands of fans go to Brampton and Mississauga but there are some i am not saying it can't work i hope it does.
Your right, you didnt say backyard. You said three teams in a small area.
So again, who are the other two teams in that small area?
I would think he would mean Guelph, Kitchener and Niagara. All three are in regions that border on Hamilton. Both Guelph and Kitchener are fairly close to me, but I would rather go to Hamilton for junior hockey simply for the fact that's where my loyalty lies...
