HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jeff Carter to LA for Jack Johnson + LA 1st.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-31-2012, 07:20 AM
  #676
Halfboard
mmmm, beer
 
Halfboard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Springtucky
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
http://www.google.com/search?q=jeff+...ient=firefox-a


Plenty of links. Have fun. Mr. Carter's off ice activities make for voluminous reading.
No way! Professional athletes drink???? Are seen in the company of young women????? Like to party???? I thought they trained 24/7, baked cookies for their grandmas & spent all their spare time in church???

Halfboard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 07:50 AM
  #677
JACKETfan
Real Blue Jacketfan
 
JACKETfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice
Country: United States
Posts: 9,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfboard View Post
No way! Professional athletes drink???? Are seen in the company of young women????? Like to party???? I thought they trained 24/7, baked cookies for their grandmas & spent all their spare time in church???
In fairness, these two by all accts had more of a problem than others.

That raises the issue of WHY Howson thought Carter would be a good fit for the Jackets.

It also raises the question of whether Howson did due diligence about Carter, given reports, and given what subsequently happened (compare Carter to JMFJ for example). Typically when a player has a bad rep, teams ask around, which also means the player hears from the grapevine who is interested in them. Yet Carter claims he was blindsided by the trade.

In conclusion, Howson made a bad choice perhaps out of a sense of desperation. Does not bode well

JACKETfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 07:53 AM
  #678
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
http://www.google.com/search?q=jeff+...ient=firefox-a


Plenty of links. Have fun. Mr. Carter's off ice activities make for voluminous reading.
From your link, you might want to read this post:

http://kingshockeyforwomen.com/2012/...e-party-to-la/

Pictures of Ovie, Patrick Kane, Tootoo, Upshall, Staal and Malkin, Parros and Corey Perry partying with puckbunnies.

You make it sound as if Twenty-something millionaires not named Carter and Richards are cloistered monks. Do some research and you'll find plenty of NHL players and shockingly enough Columbus Blue Jackets players party and chase women regularly.


After cluing you in on this secret I now feel so dirty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
In fairness, these two by all accts had more of a problem than others.

That raises the issue of WHY Howson thought Carter would be a good fit for the Jackets.

It also raises the question of whether Howson did due diligence about Carter, given reports, and given what subsequently happened (compare Carter to JMFJ for example). Typically when a player has a bad rep, teams ask around, which also means the player hears from the grapevine who is interested in them. Yet Carter claims he was blindsided by the trade.

In conclusion, Howson made a bad choice perhaps out of a sense of desperation. Does not bode well
I agree Howson was foolish to trade for Carter but not because he's young and single and he likes to mingle. Carter was a poor fit because he was an answer to the wrong problem, because he was a player who had been mislead by his team and put in a terrible spot. Carter has proven over the years to be injury prone, apparently there is something wrong with his feet. When the Flyers made a run to the Finals he missed most of the post-season with foot problems. He missed significant parts of regular seasons in Philly as well. Most important, he is a #1 center, not a #1 defenseman. This team is going no where without a #1 goalie and top pairing defense. Howson decided to get a center for Rick Nash for his birthday instead of making a good team.

Carter is a helluva player, just not the right one here.


Last edited by TaketheCannoli: 03-31-2012 at 07:59 AM.
TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 07:55 AM
  #679
wahsnairb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
In fairness, these two by all accts had more of a problem than others.

That raises the issue of WHY Howson thought Carter would be a good fit for the Jackets.

It also raises the question of whether Howson did due diligence about Carter, given reports, and given what subsequently happened (compare Carter to JMFJ for example). Typically when a player has a bad rep, teams ask around, which also means the player hears from the grapevine who is interested in them. Yet Carter claims he was blindsided by the trade.

In conclusion, Howson made a bad choice perhaps out of a sense of desperation. Does not bode well
In fairness, Howson fixed that mistake by getting the amazing JJ and a 1st. He also did very well in some other trades recently.. see: Nikitin for RUSSELL hahah

wahsnairb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 08:52 AM
  #680
bizzz*
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Minsk
Country: Tokelau
Posts: 3,107
vCash: 500
Carter has a long way to go till he reaches Eddy Belfour or Theoren Fleury level in both partying and career departments.

bizzz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 09:27 AM
  #681
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
In fairness, these two by all accts had more of a problem than others.

That raises the issue of WHY Howson thought Carter would be a good fit for the Jackets.

It also raises the question of whether Howson did due diligence about Carter, given reports, and given what subsequently happened (compare Carter to JMFJ for example). Typically when a player has a bad rep, teams ask around, which also means the player hears from the grapevine who is interested in them. Yet Carter claims he was blindsided by the trade.

In conclusion, Howson made a bad choice perhaps out of a sense of desperation. Does not bode well
Who better to ask than his coach in Philly, who undoubtedly would have not only had some insight but also would have heard and continue to hear plenty? He was still around at the time.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 11:36 AM
  #682
JACKETfan
Real Blue Jacketfan
 
JACKETfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice
Country: United States
Posts: 9,235
vCash: 500
All interesting conjectures about partying, but the facts speak for themselves.

1) The fact that he didn't know he was on the block means they didn't look beyond the rink to discover he'd be a pouting jerk about the trade. JMFJ's handling of his trade by contrast shows exactly the kind of man we want. A fact obviously not lost on Howson as a lesson learned too late with respect to Carter.

2) see #1 above.

Re: "Who better to ask?"
Sorry Bee, but the soon to be former coach is the last opinion I'd trust in evaluating a player. In addition to scouting there's a large back channel network of players and former staff etc that get consulted. And when they do, the rumors find their way back to the player.

JACKETfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 12:11 PM
  #683
KeithBWhittington
Going North
 
KeithBWhittington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brick by Brick
Country: Hungary
Posts: 10,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizoncol View Post
Carter has a long way to go till he reaches Eddy Belfour or Theoren Fleury level in both partying and career departments.
Carter was never arrested at a C-bus strip club to the best of my knowledge....

KeithBWhittington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 02:04 PM
  #684
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfboard View Post
No way! Professional athletes drink???? Are seen in the company of young women????? Like to party???? I thought they trained 24/7, baked cookies for their grandmas & spent all their spare time in church???
I'm no advocate of having a team full of Boy Scouts. Au contraire. However, when a guy's off ice behavior is an issue AND he has a GUARANTEED $50+million contract, a great deal of due dilligence should be done. I'm guessing-and I say guessing-that it wasn't done by Howson.

I have never heard anything about Carter behaving poorly in Columbus, but there was enough evidence to suggest that he wasn't an ideal candidate for acquisition. The 10 year contract is what made his alleged off ice issues in Philly a major concern, imo.

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 03:20 PM
  #685
EDM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,478
vCash: 500
There is a significant amount of background information, as I previously reported, that Howson was ordered in absolute terms by Priest to trade for Carter. If the many sources who are aware of this story are correct, that would explain why no background research was done.

EDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 10:44 PM
  #686
ClevelandJacketFan
Awesome Mascots!
 
ClevelandJacketFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ...Really?
Country: United States
Posts: 3,288
vCash: 500
I have a serious man crush on JMFJ.

Dude is a straight up beast of a player.

ClevelandJacketFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2012, 10:45 PM
  #687
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDM View Post
There is a significant amount of background information, as I previously reported, that Howson was ordered in absolute terms by Priest to trade for Carter. If the many sources who are aware of this story are correct, that would explain why no background research was done.
Source and link please?

TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 02:45 PM
  #688
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,857
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Howson really couldn't have done this deal. Could he have?

CBJ lose: A one dimensional, pouting brat who enjoys partying and was going to be an albatross for 10 years at $5.5 million/year.

Jackets get: A minute-eating, power play point man, offensively gifted defenseman who exudes nothing but positivism and has legitimate leadership qualities and costs over a million bucks per year less.

AND

A first round pick.
Oh, please. Just 'cause it's effective doesn't mean Howson didn't make it happen. His slipups have been generally about failure to see the forest for the trees, especially on the blueline and in free agency. Good value trades have generally been a hallmark of his, with only two significant exceptions - Tarnstrom and Carter-to-CBJ. Heck, look at his other two trades this season - Letestu for a 4th and Nikitin for KRussell. Both have been fantastic.

If anything, Patrick may well have said "yeah, he's a good guy to get overall, let's push for it" - i.e. provided the needed Big Picture perspective. Based on that, a Howson-Patrick combo could still work going forward, despite the eagerness to Fire Everybody.

...although I must admit I don't have the same kind of faith in that sort of thing that I used to have.

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 02:49 PM
  #689
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,857
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDM View Post
There is a significant amount of background information, as I previously reported, that Howson was ordered in absolute terms by Priest to trade for Carter. If the many sources who are aware of this story are correct, that would explain why no background research was done.
If you've got outside confirmation of that, please share. That would make me feel a lot better. Seriously, the only reasons I ever ended up defending the Carter trade (after a while) were 1) faith that Howson knew what he was doing despite being out-of-character, and 2) I figured we'd patched the blueline issue in free agency with Wiz and Martinek. (Oops.) Carter's spectacular failure here is why #1 is in short supply with me of late, and if his arm was twisted to make that happen then that means he's not screwed up as badly as I thought. (He'd still be down points for the Nash presser debacle, but, well, that was as much Nash's agent's fault for instigating. Not that that justifies, but, y'know.)

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 02:59 PM
  #690
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
If you've got outside confirmation of that, please share. That would make me feel a lot better. Seriously, the only reasons I ever ended up defending the Carter trade (after a while) were 1) faith that Howson knew what he was doing despite being out-of-character, and 2) I figured we'd patched the blueline issue in free agency with Wiz and Martinek. (Oops.) Carter's spectacular failure here is why #1 is in short supply with me of late, and if his arm was twisted to make that happen then that means he's not screwed up as badly as I thought. (He'd still be down points for the Nash presser debacle, but, well, that was as much Nash's agent's fault for instigating. Not that that justifies, but, y'know.)
Got to say, Viq, if he made as big a deal as that one strictly because he was forced into it by a boss who knows nothing about hockey, I will lose whatever respect remains for him. If that truly is the case, and EDM has been very nebulous with the source, any self respecting GM would have gotten up and walked away from the job.

pete goegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 03:53 PM
  #691
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Oh, please. Just 'cause it's effective doesn't mean Howson didn't make it happen. His slipups have been generally about failure to see the forest for the trees, especially on the blueline and in free agency. Good value trades have generally been a hallmark of his, with only two significant exceptions - Tarnstrom and Carter-to-CBJ. Heck, look at his other two trades this season - Letestu for a 4th and Nikitin for KRussell. Both have been fantastic.

If anything, Patrick may well have said "yeah, he's a good guy to get overall, let's push for it" - i.e. provided the needed Big Picture perspective. Based on that, a Howson-Patrick combo could still work going forward, despite the eagerness to Fire Everybody.

...although I must admit I don't have the same kind of faith in that sort of thing that I used to have.
So let's see.

Jackets hires NHL HHOFer who had a major hand in building a very solid, Cup winning organization. This HHOFer takes the job to sit back passively and sign off blindly on the overall strategy and major personnel moves of a thoroughly unaccomplished (most might say failure of a) GM. "Call me when the Carter thing is done-if you think that it even should be done, won't you please, Scotty?"

I don't think so. Howson probably doesn't even sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-01-2012 at 03:58 PM.
Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #692
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Howson probably doesn't even sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.
Oh my. We really are taking Patrick's hire to the extreme aren't we?

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:23 PM
  #693
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Oh my. We really are taking Patrick's hire to the extreme aren't we?
There would be no point in hiring him nor any point in him taking the job-unless he is broke-if Patrick weren't playing a major role in the major decisions of the operation.

So, in response to your query. No, "we" aren't.

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:27 PM
  #694
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
There would be no point in hiring him nor any point in him taking the job-unless he is broke-if Patrick weren't playing a major role in the major decisions of the operation.

So, in response to your query. No, "we" aren't.
First off, Patrick's hire may or may not have been what it appears to have been. Frankly, I don't believe that to be the case.

Secondly there is a huge difference between playing a "major role" and "doesn't sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.". One is perfectly reasonable, the other is... Well... I'll just avoid saying what I really think of the statement.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #695
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,857
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
So let's see.

Jackets hires NHL HHOFer who had a major hand in building a very solid, Cup winning organization. This HHOFer takes the job to sit back passively and sign off blindly on the overall strategy and major personnel moves of a thoroughly unaccomplished (most might say failure of a) GM. "Call me when the Carter thing is done-if you think that it even should be done, won't you please, Scotty?"

I don't think so. Howson probably doesn't even sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.
"Sign off blindly?" Where did I say that? I believe the point being made was that he may have had a hand in advising and approving the deal without necessarily single-handedly orchestrating it from start to finish. Heck, he might have been integral in our not going after Bernier, for all we know.

He's an advisor. His job would be to advise. That's what I'd assume he's doing, and given how the front office has done so far since he came in, I find the results a tad encouraging.

As for your "please be willing to say Gesundheit" theory...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Secondly there is a huge difference between playing a "major role" and "doesn't sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.". One is perfectly reasonable, the other is... Well... I'll just avoid saying what I really think of the statement.
I believe the phrase "utterly ludicrous" can be fairly applied without being too nasty about it.

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 04:36 PM
  #696
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,857
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Got to say, Viq, if he made as big a deal as that one strictly because he was forced into it by a boss who knows nothing about hockey, I will lose whatever respect remains for him. If that truly is the case, and EDM has been very nebulous with the source, any self respecting GM would have gotten up and walked away from the job.
I would contest the "knows nothing about hockey" bit, but that's even more of a hopeless pit of despair than the current conversation thread, so we'll just let that go.

Successful, proven GMs have made dumb decisions under pressure before. See, for example, Dale Tallon in re: Christobal Huet and Brian Campbell in free agency.

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 05:01 PM
  #697
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
First off, Patrick's hire may or may not have been what it appears to have been. Frankly, I don't believe that to be the case.

Secondly there is a huge difference between playing a "major role" and "doesn't sneeze anymore without Patrick's approval.". One is perfectly reasonable, the other is... Well... I'll just avoid saying what I really think of the statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
"Sign off blindly?" Where did I say that? I believe the point being made was that he may have had a hand in advising and approving the deal without necessarily single-handedly orchestrating it from start to finish. Heck, he might have been integral in our not going after Bernier, for all we know.

He's an advisor. His job would be to advise. That's what I'd assume he's doing, and given how the front office has done so far since he came in, I find the results a tad encouraging.

As for your "please be willing to say Gesundheit" theory...



I believe the phrase "utterly ludicrous" can be fairly applied without being too nasty about it.
It is Columbus so it's mostly about titles, seniority, rankings and pay grades... I'll try to be more mindful of this.

His title is this so he limited to this and this only. No doubt.

Hyperbole tends to escape the bureaucratic mind most of the time as well. Achooooooooooooooooooo

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 05:49 PM
  #698
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,857
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
It is Columbus so it's mostly about titles, seniority, rankings and pay grades... I'll try to be more mindful of this.

His title is this so he limited to this and this only. No doubt.

Hyperbole tends to escape the bureaucratic mind most of the time as well. Achooooooooooooooooooo
Assuming that what you're trying to say here is "I was deliberately dramatically overstating the situation" (which would be unhelpful, disruptive, and inflammatory, but not necessarily ignorant), I should point out that Poe's Law applies to hyperbole as well.

Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:34 PM
  #699
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Hyperbole tends to escape the bureaucratic mind most of the time as well.
And there are those that believe that Patrick's powers extend much farther than they likely do. The hyperbole was easy to detect (after all, I didn't believe that Howson couldn't sneeze on his own), however the message was the same. Howson is now the "puppet", Patrick is now "pulling the strings".

I believe the closer answer is that the relationship is far more equal. After all if Howson was perceived as that incompetent, his existence would not be needed.

blahblah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2012, 08:50 PM
  #700
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,455
vCash: 500
I'm glad Jack is playing great for you guys, it's not too often you see win-win trades. When JJ is on he can really bring it.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.