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Why rebuild? The Habs have almost every piece now.

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Old
02-23-2012, 09:16 PM
  #1
Belso
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Why rebuild? The Habs have almost every piece now.

in 3 years..

Price 27
XXXXXX

Price will be in his prime at this time. Who cares who the back up is.
------

Subban 25, Beaulieu 22

Gorges 30, Emelin 28

Tinordi 23, Diaz 29

Subban, Gorges, Emelin and Diaz will all have enough pro experience to be effective and are all in their prime. Beaulieu and Tinordi will both be on entry level contracts and Emelin and Diaz shouldn't break the bank.

-----

Pacioretty 26, Desharnais 28, Cole36

Gallagher 23, Plekanec 32, (Grigorenko 21 or Forsberg 21 or Radulov 29)

Kristo 25, Leblanc 24, Eller 25

Conboy 27, White 26, Geoffrion 27

I know Cole is getting older and will be past his prime at 36 but there's no reason why he can't continue to contribute at that age. Darche is 35 this season and playing some of the best hockey in his career. But Max and David will both be either in their prime or close to it.

If the Habs draft a RW this summer (Grigorenko ranked 2nd by the ISS or Filip Forsberg ranked 3rd) or can land Radulov, they can have the above line you see.. Plekanec at the age of 32 is very good considering Zetterberg, Franzen and Datsyuk are 31, 32 and 33 respectfully.

Kristo, Leblanc and Eller all have enough grit and work ethics to be a good 3rd "checking" line and at the average age of 25 will have more than enough energy to play any minute given to them. As we have seen, Eller and Leblanc can already play effective hockey this season. They will both have a few more seasons under their belts to improve their play.

Conboy still has to prove he can play at the NHL level but is a big forward who can drop the gloves and stands up for his team mates. White is also a hitting, high energy Forward and Geoffrion might not be anywhere close to where he was drafted but this is what Hockeyfuture.com had to say about his attributes:

"Geoffrion is an excellent two-way forward that combines of size, power and energy. He thrives on the physical side of the game and can often be found delivering some very solid checks. Geoffrion is an outstanding skater with good agility, and power in his strides. He possesses very good hockey sense and on-ice vision. He utilizes his 6’2 frame quite effectively, particularly along the boards and in one-on-one situations. He is sound defensively as well. He’ll drive to the net hard and shown a willingness to go into the difficult areas to make the play. Geoffrion possesses a very hard shot and can get pucks to the net. While Geoffrion possesses good puck skills, he could stand to shoot the puck more often."

----

Now the thing is the Habs have plenty of time to make moves, draft other players etc. But other than one RW on Plek's line and a back-up to Price, they already have every player needed and don't have to look very far or make many moves to have a good and talented team on the ice in a few years. They can be a young team with a lot of experience if they start playing them now.

So ya, the Habs don't need to rebuild IMO. They just need to start playing their younger players now and allow them to improve their skills as fast as possible to be competitive when they finally call up Gallagher, Kristo, Beaulieu, and Tinordi up..

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02-23-2012, 10:01 PM
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SouthernHab
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Then you have injuries. Then you have projected young players not meeting expectations. Then you have another projected successful team in another 3 years.

We have been doing this for the past 18 years. We have always been slated to have a competitive team..........3 years from any year in the previous 18 years.

We deserve better.

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02-23-2012, 10:02 PM
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loudi94
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Re-tool then??

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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andy28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Then you have injuries. Then you have projected young players not meeting expectations. Then you have another projected successful team in another 3 years.

We have been doing this for the past 18 years. We have always been slated to have a competitive team..........3 years from any year in the previous 18 years.

We deserve better.
Agreed. It's so easy to just say these guys are gonna be awesome in 3 years. Experts can't even predict the standings for the upcoming year. I am not sure about rebuilding but I think a team always needs to be restocking its cupboard to some degree. I think a team should always be in the process of rebuilding.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:10 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Then you have injuries. Then you have projected young players not meeting expectations. Then you have another projected successful team in another 3 years.

We have been doing this for the past 18 years. We have always been slated to have a competitive team..........3 years from any year in the previous 18 years.

We deserve better.
Yup, we always assume the best case scenario and never prepare for the worst. Who needs a rebuild? Pacman's a 50 goal scorer, Price is a Vezina winner and PK wins the Norris. And all of our other prospects who haven't even played an NHL game are going to be stars. We don't need no stinkin' rebuild.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:18 PM
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Well in 3 years, plenty can go on...
But for next season, we have no D. Yes, PK, Gorges and Emelin are great. Kaberle is, Kaberle. We still need to see Markov play. In the end, we know the D we have atm will just sink us as it did this season (some say it's just the pp, but honestly, I think it's the blueline at the pp, which is our D - otherwise we wouldn't have ever seen Pleks at the line). If we can get Pleks some solid wingers, we'll have two good offensive lines. Manage to give good rookie wingers for Eller (maybe keep AK for him and add Leblanc) as well and our 3rd line should be interesting as well. Seems like we have a 4th line. But our D... Needs plenty of work.
But in 3 years... a lot can happen. Beaulieu, Tinordi have yet to prove themselves in the NHL. And how do we know Diaz will still be a fit next season.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:23 PM
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SOLR
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Need centers....it's a simple equation really, we have a lot of the pieces but we really don't have the pieces at the center position.

Desharnais is a good center in 15th place team. Nothing less, nothing more. (I will pass on needing validation for that statement. I can see it from here, suddenly the habs will make the playoffs next year and we will get trounced somehow in the playoffs; outsized and outmuscled. We have watched 15 years of small centers, lesson learned, move on.)
Pleckanec is a great two-way center, but he's not a first center. We would be in great shape with Pleckanec on the third line.
Eller might grow into what we need ...for a 2nd center.
Leblanc... 2nd / 3rd center.

History repeating itself...

While I don't believe we need a Malkin type of player, I think we need a Toews-Backstrom-Duchene-etc type of player for our first line. Someone with the edge to produce about 80 pts regularly and possibilities for 1 or 2 100pts seasons. This is someone you are more likely to acquire at the draft than in a trade, but either would work. The problem with the trade for such player is that it would likely force hard choices. (Jack Johnson - Carter ? )

Also...

I'm not a believer in Diaz long term.
I'm not completely sold on Emelin
I'm not a believer in Beaulieu / Tinordi both being ready early and at the same time.
Why are you completely discounting Markov?
I think there is a lot of work to do with the D you are proposing.

Subban - Gorges
Markov(healthy)-Tinordi
Beaulieu-Emelin

Sounds more exciting for some reasons.

But

Subban - Gorges
UFA-Emelin
Tinordi-UFA
Diaz-Beaulieu

Looks more likely to me.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:35 PM
  #8
Pleky Roks
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I've been saying this for weeks now!!! The Habs don't need to rebuild at all....they just need to re-tool and not even that much!!

Gomez needs to go!!! We need a bigger better centerman than him. Darche needs to go...we need someone tougher, grittier and more energetic than him. And we need another top 3 defencemen with size and toughness who can add a little offence too.

The rest of the re-tooling needs to happen behind the bench with the coaching staff. They need to take a good look at the players and their strengths and come up with a style that suits the players. Martin tried to get players to play a defensive style of hockey but thats impossible when you have a small team that isn't physical. You need size and muscle to play that style and the Habs don't have that.

Bring in a new coach...with a new system that the players want to play and can excel at and the Habs will be in the top 5 of the conference in no time.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:42 PM
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You lost me at Diaz. Give me a break.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:43 PM
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Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Need centers....it's a simple equation really, we have a lot of the pieces but we really don't have the pieces at the center position.

Desharnais is a good center in 15th place team. Nothing less, nothing more. (I will pass on needing validation for that statement. I can see it from here, suddenly the habs will make the playoffs next year and we will get trounced somehow in the playoffs; outsized and outmuscled. We have watched 15 years of small centers, lesson learned, move on.)
Pleckanec is a great two-way center, but he's not a first center. We would be in great shape with Pleckanec on the third line.
Eller might grow into what we need ...for a 2nd center.
Leblanc... 2nd / 3rd center.

History repeating itself...

While I don't believe we need a Malkin type of player, I think we need a Toews-Backstrom-Duchene-etc type of player for our first line. Someone with the edge to produce about 80 pts regularly and possibilities for 1 or 2 100pts seasons. This is someone you are more likely to acquire at the draft than in a trade, but either would work. The problem with the trade for such player is that it would likely force hard choices. (Jack Johnson - Carter ? )

Also...

I'm not a believer in Diaz long term.
I'm not completely sold on Emelin
I'm not a believer in Beaulieu / Tinordi both being ready early and at the same time.
Why are you completely discounting Markov?
I think there is a lot of work to do with the D you are proposing.

Subban - Gorges
Markov(healthy)-Tinordi
Beaulieu-Emelin

Sounds more exciting for some reasons.

But

Subban - Gorges
UFA-Emelin
Tinordi-UFA
Diaz-Beaulieu

Looks more likely to me.
I understand that every year things change if a team has little success. GM's aren't happy so they make moves. I don't expect the team I mentioned to be there in 3 years. But I truly think that with a good coach they have plenty of talent and enough size to be good. Sure they can look at signing free agents and making trades to be even better. I'm not saying otherwise. I just don't think the Habs need to blow up the team and start over.. As one posted mentioned yes Retool and tweaking is more what I would like to see. Sure if you can increase size down the middle on the top two lines, great. But I still think the lines I posted can be pretty good.

You might not be sold on Emelin. That's ok. But I am. And sure, Diaz is the least important of the defense men and feel free to put anyone there.

As for Markov, I have the utmost respect for him and I hope he can gain his game back, but after so many surgeries to his knee, I am not counting on him being back after 36. He will probably still be able to play and be ok, but it's a long shot and I'd rather not bank on it for now.

As for injuries, every team will have injuries. But if you consider the team I posted with a few injuries compared to those of other teams with a few injuries, I still think they can compete and be in the top third of the league.

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:48 PM
  #11
larek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
in 3 years..

Price 27
XXXXXX

Price will be in his prime at this time. Who cares who the back up is.
------

Subban 25, Beaulieu 22

Gorges 30, Emelin 28

Tinordi 23, Diaz 29

Subban, Gorges, Emelin and Diaz will all have enough pro experience to be effective and are all in their prime. Beaulieu and Tinordi will both be on entry level contracts and Emelin and Diaz shouldn't break the bank.

-----

Pacioretty 26, Desharnais 28, Cole36

Gallagher 23, Plekanec 32, (Grigorenko 21 or Forsberg 21 or Radulov 29)

Kristo 25, Leblanc 24, Eller 25

Conboy 27, White 26, Geoffrion 27

I know Cole is getting older and will be past his prime at 36 but there's no reason why he can't continue to contribute at that age. Darche is 35 this season and playing some of the best hockey in his career. But Max and David will both be either in their prime or close to it.

If the Habs draft a RW this summer (Grigorenko ranked 2nd by the ISS or Filip Forsberg ranked 3rd) or can land Radulov, they can have the above line you see.. Plekanec at the age of 32 is very good considering Zetterberg, Franzen and Datsyuk are 31, 32 and 33 respectfully.

Kristo, Leblanc and Eller all have enough grit and work ethics to be a good 3rd "checking" line and at the average age of 25 will have more than enough energy to play any minute given to them. As we have seen, Eller and Leblanc can already play effective hockey this season. They will both have a few more seasons under their belts to improve their play.

Conboy still has to prove he can play at the NHL level but is a big forward who can drop the gloves and stands up for his team mates. White is also a hitting, high energy Forward and Geoffrion might not be anywhere close to where he was drafted but this is what Hockeyfuture.com had to say about his attributes:

"Geoffrion is an excellent two-way forward that combines of size, power and energy. He thrives on the physical side of the game and can often be found delivering some very solid checks. Geoffrion is an outstanding skater with good agility, and power in his strides. He possesses very good hockey sense and on-ice vision. He utilizes his 6’2 frame quite effectively, particularly along the boards and in one-on-one situations. He is sound defensively as well. He’ll drive to the net hard and shown a willingness to go into the difficult areas to make the play. Geoffrion possesses a very hard shot and can get pucks to the net. While Geoffrion possesses good puck skills, he could stand to shoot the puck more often."

----

Now the thing is the Habs have plenty of time to make moves, draft other players etc. But other than one RW on Plek's line and a back-up to Price, they already have every player needed and don't have to look very far or make many moves to have a good and talented team on the ice in a few years. They can be a young team with a lot of experience if they start playing them now.

So ya, the Habs don't need to rebuild IMO. They just need to start playing their younger players now and allow them to improve their skills as fast as possible to be competitive when they finally call up Gallagher, Kristo, Beaulieu, and Tinordi up..
LoL-----nhl12. Sure--real world - nope

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:50 PM
  #12
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that's why I've been wanting to just tank the season...we are in 28th place now I believe and through one of many possibilities could end up with Grigorenko at the draft. Have him as our future #1 (should be ready within 3 years at most I'd imagine) and just roll with what else we have while making other beneficial moves in the meantime obviously. Just write this season off, trade the UFAs for what you can get (assuming they won't be re-signed), get Grigorenko and a few other good prospects at the draft, and look to the future

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Old
02-23-2012, 10:57 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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We are having technical difficulties... please stand by.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:00 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Gentlemen, we can rebuild him...

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02-23-2012, 11:05 PM
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Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
in 3 years..

Price 27
XXXXXX

Price will be in his prime at this time. Who cares who the back up is.
------

Subban 25, Beaulieu 22

Gorges 30, Emelin 28

Tinordi 23, Diaz 29

Subban, Gorges, Emelin and Diaz will all have enough pro experience to be effective and are all in their prime. Beaulieu and Tinordi will both be on entry level contracts and Emelin and Diaz shouldn't break the bank.

-----

Pacioretty 26, Desharnais 28, Cole36

Gallagher 23, Plekanec 32, (Grigorenko 21 or Forsberg 21 or Radulov 29)

Kristo 25, Leblanc 24, Eller 25

Conboy 27, White 26, Geoffrion 27

I know Cole is getting older and will be past his prime at 36 but there's no reason why he can't continue to contribute at that age. Darche is 35 this season and playing some of the best hockey in his career. But Max and David will both be either in their prime or close to it.

If the Habs draft a RW this summer (Grigorenko ranked 2nd by the ISS or Filip Forsberg ranked 3rd) or can land Radulov, they can have the above line you see.. Plekanec at the age of 32 is very good considering Zetterberg, Franzen and Datsyuk are 31, 32 and 33 respectfully.

Kristo, Leblanc and Eller all have enough grit and work ethics to be a good 3rd "checking" line and at the average age of 25 will have more than enough energy to play any minute given to them. As we have seen, Eller and Leblanc can already play effective hockey this season. They will both have a few more seasons under their belts to improve their play.

Conboy still has to prove he can play at the NHL level but is a big forward who can drop the gloves and stands up for his team mates. White is also a hitting, high energy Forward and Geoffrion might not be anywhere close to where he was drafted but this is what Hockeyfuture.com had to say about his attributes:

"Geoffrion is an excellent two-way forward that combines of size, power and energy. He thrives on the physical side of the game and can often be found delivering some very solid checks. Geoffrion is an outstanding skater with good agility, and power in his strides. He possesses very good hockey sense and on-ice vision. He utilizes his 6’2 frame quite effectively, particularly along the boards and in one-on-one situations. He is sound defensively as well. He’ll drive to the net hard and shown a willingness to go into the difficult areas to make the play. Geoffrion possesses a very hard shot and can get pucks to the net. While Geoffrion possesses good puck skills, he could stand to shoot the puck more often."

----

Now the thing is the Habs have plenty of time to make moves, draft other players etc. But other than one RW on Plek's line and a back-up to Price, they already have every player needed and don't have to look very far or make many moves to have a good and talented team on the ice in a few years. They can be a young team with a lot of experience if they start playing them now.

So ya, the Habs don't need to rebuild IMO. They just need to start playing their younger players now and allow them to improve their skills as fast as possible to be competitive when they finally call up Gallagher, Kristo, Beaulieu, and Tinordi up..
Without drastic changes to personnel and the way this team conducts business and makes decisions this team will be in exactly the same position in 3 years.

It's a wreck.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:08 PM
  #16
shakenbake7
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You're right in saying that we don't need a rebuild, but the big problem is that this team lacks first line forwards. Our goaltenders are great, our blueline is stacked assuming Markov can return to form, and our 2nd-4th lines look good as well. The only player on this current roster that I would POTENTIALLY call a first liner is Pacioretty, but that depends on how the rest of his development plays out.

This is why tanking is not a bad thing. Assuming we can get one of Yakupov/Grigs/Forsberg/Galchenyuk, then I think we're short one big trade/FA signing from contention annually.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:22 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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You're right in saying that we don't need a rebuild, but the big problem is that this team lacks first line forwards. Our goaltenders are great, our blueline is stacked assuming Markov can return to form, and our 2nd-4th lines look good as well. The only player on this current roster that I would POTENTIALLY call a first liner is Pacioretty, but that depends on how the rest of his development plays out.

This is why tanking is not a bad thing. Assuming we can get one of Yakupov/Grigs/Forsberg/Galchenyuk, then I think we're short one big trade/FA signing from contention annually.
How is our blueline stacked? Seriously man... it's got huge holes in it right now. Markov would obviously be huge if he returned but that's a huge 'if' and there isn't much beyond PK.

And you're right we ALSO don't have a first line forward other than the rapidly emerging Paccioretti.

But hey as the OP said... we don't need a rebuild.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:32 PM
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Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
How is our blueline stacked? Seriously man... it's got huge holes in it right now. Markov would obviously be huge if he returned but that's a huge 'if' and there isn't much beyond PK.

And you're right we ALSO don't have a first line forward other than the rapidly emerging Paccioretti.

But hey as the OP said... we don't need a rebuild.
A team needs to be effective in net and going in both the north and south directions of the rink. That needs 23 effective players and young bucks challenging.

People are too eager to look at 3 players (Max, Carey, Pk) and say the heavy lifting is done. There's a big problem in this organization it needs a lot more of everything.

Wouldn't you agree LG?

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02-23-2012, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Then you have injuries. Then you have projected young players not meeting expectations. Then you have another projected successful team in another 3 years.

We have been doing this for the past 18 years. We have always been slated to have a competitive team..........3 years from any year in the previous 18 years.

We deserve better.
So, basically what you're saying is, one way or another we have no guarantees...

interesting.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
How is our blueline stacked? Seriously man... it's got huge holes in it right now. Markov would obviously be huge if he returned but that's a huge 'if' and there isn't much beyond PK.

And you're right we ALSO don't have a first line forward other than the rapidly emerging Paccioretti.

But hey as the OP said... we don't need a rebuild.
Our blueline basically depends on Markov, and our prospects. Personally I think that one of the biggest power moves, assuming it's available, is Suter. If Markov is okiedoke, a serious team would bury Gomez and swing for the moon with Suter.

At that point, our blueline would be stacked.

Suter - Subban
Markov - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz

That's ****in' stacked, with a very respectable prospect pool feeding our blueline bottom-up.

If PG drafted Grigorenko/Galchenyuk, buried Gomez, and signed Suter, he would absolutely deserve his job.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:47 PM
  #21
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Anything can happen. Parity's a female dog, but it's the name of the game these days. For all we know, everything could go right and we could win the division next year. Or strike out again. Or be middle of the pack.
I'm just happy this year is almost over.

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Old
02-23-2012, 11:55 PM
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Our blueline basically depends on Markov, and our prospects. Personally I think that one of the biggest power moves, assuming it's available, is Suter. If Markov is okiedoke, a serious team would bury Gomez and swing for the moon with Suter.

At that point, our blueline would be stacked.

Suter - Subban
Markov - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz

That's ****in' stacked, with a very respectable prospect pool feeding our blueline bottom-up.

If PG drafted Grigorenko/Galchenyuk, buried Gomez, and signed Suter, he would absolutely deserve his job.
Where's Kaberle? Cause he'll be on this team next year too, no one will take him right now. I personally have him where you have Markov as I feel Markov may be done.

This team does need a rebuild. Our D this season has been banged up and the ones that weren't were mostly rookies and a sophmore. So it's had major issues, a crap PP and key FWD Injuries have hurt.

We get a high draft pick, open up some cap space and sign a big UFA Dman, hire a coaching staff that can re-ignite our PP and continue the PK as it is working and this team will be a solid playoff team, maybe even a borderline contender.


BUT

If people here want a full on rebuild, MTL may as well trade away all UFAs to be, and Plekanec as he would land you a great package deal

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Old
02-24-2012, 12:06 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
A team needs to be effective in net and going in both the north and south directions of the rink. That needs 23 effective players and young bucks challenging.

People are too eager to look at 3 players (Max, Carey, Pk) and say the heavy lifting is done. There's a big problem in this organization it needs a lot more of everything.

Wouldn't you agree LG?
Yes. We've got reason to be optimistic but we're kidding ourselves if we think we're anywhere close to a contender. We're not.
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Our blueline basically depends on Markov, and our prospects. Personally I think that one of the biggest power moves, assuming it's available, is Suter. If Markov is okiedoke, a serious team would bury Gomez and swing for the moon with Suter.
1. If Suter comes, okay different story. But that's not going to happen man...
2. Markov is a question mark and should be treated as such. We can't rely on him being healthy. If he goes down, we're right back where we were.
3. The prospects on the blueline actually look good. But they're two or three years away minimum from being effective defensemen. That's a long time to wait.

So while we're waiting... why not continue the rebuild?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
At that point, our blueline would be stacked.

Suter - Subban
Markov - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz

That's ****in' stacked, with a very respectable prospect pool feeding our blueline bottom-up.

If PG drafted Grigorenko/Galchenyuk, buried Gomez, and signed Suter, he would absolutely deserve his job.
If PG did all of this he'd absolutely have a magic wand. I'm sorry but Suter isn't going to want to come here. The guy wants a cup. Why come here when we don't have legit first liners and holes on defense? He can just go someplace where the club is already stacked or... just stay in Nashville.

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02-24-2012, 12:09 AM
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Desharnais as our number 1 center?? Yeah we sure have everything..

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02-24-2012, 12:34 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
1. If Suter comes, okay different story. But that's not going to happen man...
2. Markov is a question mark and should be treated as such. We can't rely on him being healthy. If he goes down, we're right back where we were.
3. The prospects on the blueline actually look good. But they're two or three years away minimum from being effective defensemen. That's a long time to wait.

So while we're waiting... why not continue the rebuild?
I don't see why it can't. It seems pretty clear that Suter's going to test the waters. He officially announced that he wont sign before the deadline. He's seeing dollar signs, and we've got the cash to support him.

Montreal should have been a much more competitive team this year. No one saw this season coming, and no one saw what will be 300+ man games lost to injury.

I think if we make a competitive offer to Suter, there's no reason for him to not listen.

Markov is a question mark, which is why I prefaced my entire statement by saying "our blueline basically depends on Markov."

And the prospects, as you say, are good. Yes, they are 2 to 3 years away, so that should be planned for.

In the mean time, attempt to field competitive teams, and use this year's draft pick as a major kick in the arse to our team. We have a real opportunity this year to get the elite offensive centerman of the future for this team.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If PG did all of this he'd absolutely have a magic wand. I'm sorry but Suter isn't going to want to come here. The guy wants a cup. Why come here when we don't have legit first liners and holes on defense? He can just go someplace where the club is already stacked or... just stay in Nashville.
I don't know why you say that. There's only 3 things I suggested:

1.) Draft one of the 2 big centers, which appears to be in the cards

2.) Bury Gomez, which is a teleological necessity at this point

3.) Make a big swing for Suter, who I think will test the UFA market.

None of those are outlandish. All are good moves, that PG would probably want to do anyways.

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