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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 5

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Old
02-24-2012, 09:41 PM
  #276
Led Zappa
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Originally Posted by fasterthanlight View Post
I don't think that's necessarily true. While demand for Nash would decrease over the summer if his list shrinks, demand would also increase because teams have more cap flexibility. For example, if a team like the sharks wants to add Nash, it would be easier to do in the off season rather than now. I think these two effects might be a wash.
I know people disagree. That's why I posted it. In the offseason there will be UFA's to choose from as well as trades and teams that say we'll go with what we have and see what we have rather than pay that price to start the season.

Teams that want Nash want to win now and that's why the price will be higher now than in the off season and Nash will still hold the cards in the offseason. Why would he make it any easier then than now? Now he can still play for a contender and the PO's. My list would be as big now as it's going to be.

Also what CFY said.

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Old
02-24-2012, 10:02 PM
  #277
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Im all for Nash coming to the Sharks, (as long as clowe/pavs/couture are untouched). I trust DW. Hes always come through. But I agree, getting Nash now (and hoping he resigns) is better then waiting till off season

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02-24-2012, 10:09 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Im all for Nash coming to the Sharks, (as long as clowe/pavs/couture are untouched). I trust DW. Hes always come through. But I agree, getting Nash now (and hoping he resigns) is better then waiting till off season
Hes sgined til 2018 at 7.8m per. No fear in him not being here next year.

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02-24-2012, 10:12 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Im all for Nash coming to the Sharks, (as long as clowe/pavs/couture are untouched). I trust DW. Hes always come through. But I agree, getting Nash now (and hoping he resigns) is better then waiting till off season
He's signed through the 17-18 season for a 7.8M Cap hit.

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02-24-2012, 10:14 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Im all for Nash coming to the Sharks, (as long as clowe/pavs/couture are untouched). I trust DW. Hes always come through. But I agree, getting Nash now (and hoping he resigns) is better then waiting till off season
That won't happen. Howson is not that dumb. If those three are off the table, Nash will go elsewhere.

Please explain in detail why Nash will make the Sharks more likely to attain the cup. Saying that he is better than X or that he is a great player is an insufficient explanation. How does he make the team better assuming that you lose one of Clowe, Pavs, or Couture?

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02-24-2012, 10:17 PM
  #281
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That won't happen. Howson is not that dumb. If those three are off the table, Nash will go elsewhere.

Please explain in detail why Nash will make the Sharks more likely to attain the cup. Saying that he is better than X or that he is a great player is an insufficient explanation. How does he make the team better assuming that you lose one of Clowe, Pavs, or Couture?
His name alone will make opponents move out of the way and let the Sharks score.

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02-24-2012, 10:21 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
Hes sgined til 2018 at 7.8m per. No fear in him not being here next year.
holy crap! I did not know this. **** nash

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02-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
His name alone will make opponents move out of the way and let the Sharks score.


My questions:

He likes to carry the line. How will he adapt to TM's chip and chase? Will he try to be another Danny McDangles?

How will he do on one timers? He is a lefty like Heatley who did not do well with another lefty in JT. Realistically the only lefty that has adapted to JT for one-timers is Marleau and Marleau isn't that good in that respect. Keep in mind Heatley had Spezza (a righty) in Ottawa. Are one-timers even a viable option in the playoffs?

Will his presence make the team one dimensional on scoring? Does he have to be THE option on prime opportunities? One dimensional teams don't do so well in the playoffs.

He likes to create in the o-zone, keeping the puck. Will it work with JT or be redundant?

Will the cost of Nash deprive SJ of some defense (Pavs/Couture) at the forward position?

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02-24-2012, 10:40 PM
  #284
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Just a thought on the Nash sweeps and Howson.

CBJ is not a prime destination for FAs. CBJ has that issue. IMO, the centerpiece of any trade for Nash is likely going to be a guy who is signed long term or a guy who will only be RFA and can be retained by matching an offersheet. Howson would be an absolute fool to take a centerpiece player back who could be gone in a little over a year. That makes sense of the Carter/Johnson swap to an extent.

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02-24-2012, 10:42 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just a thought on the Nash sweeps and Howson.

CBJ is not a prime destination for FAs. CBJ has that issue. IMO, the centerpiece of any trade for Nash is likely going to be a guy who is signed long term or a guy who will only be RFA and can be retained by matching an offersheet. Howson would be an absolute fool to take a centerpiece player back who could be gone in a little over a year. That makes sense of the Carter/Johnson swap to an extent.
So really that eliminates Clowe.

If I had my druthers I'd actually trade Havlat - but he has a NTC. He is the one I'd send back though.

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02-24-2012, 11:12 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
His name alone will make opponents move out of the way and let the Sharks score.
I thought Colin White was a Shark.

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02-24-2012, 11:45 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
He's signed through the 17-18 season for a 7.8M Cap hit.
and I thought the Heatly contract made me cry.

yeah I have zero interest in Nash now

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02-24-2012, 11:57 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post




My questions:

He likes to carry the line. How will he adapt to TM's chip and chase? Will he try to be another Danny McDangles?

How will he do on one timers? He is a lefty like Heatley who did not do well with another lefty in JT. Realistically the only lefty that has adapted to JT for one-timers is Marleau and Marleau isn't that good in that respect. Keep in mind Heatley had Spezza (a righty) in Ottawa. Are one-timers even a viable option in the playoffs?

Will his presence make the team one dimensional on scoring? Does he have to be THE option on prime opportunities? One dimensional teams don't do so well in the playoffs.

He likes to create in the o-zone, keeping the puck. Will it work with JT or be redundant?

Will the cost of Nash deprive SJ of some defense (Pavs/Couture) at the forward position?
Can someone explain to me why McLellan takes the players given to him and doesn't necessarily utilize their strengths. If it's a legitimate concern to bring in a player of Nash's ability and be worried that he might not be able to fit in the system, shouldn't we be looking for a coach who adapts his system based on the talent presented to him. My primary complaints in this regard are towards his usage of Brent Burns and Martin Havlat and too a lesser extent, Patrick Marleau, and if we bring in another player, doesn't matter who, shouldn't we trying to get the most of them? Havlat and Burns are both dynamic players, as is Nash, and I don't want to bring in any more guys who's talents are going to be muddled by the team's "system." I'd rather stick with the team we have and after they inevitably poop themselves in the playoffs we can try a new more darwinian coach.

Maybe I'm ranting...

I don't know.

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Old
02-25-2012, 12:09 AM
  #289
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Can someone explain to me why McLellan takes the players given to him and doesn't necessarily utilize their strengths. If it's a legitimate concern to bring in a player of Nash's ability and be worried that he might not be able to fit in the system, shouldn't we be looking for a coach who adapts his system based on the talent presented to him. My primary complaints in this regard are towards his usage of Brent Burns and Martin Havlat and too a lesser extent, Patrick Marleau, and if we bring in another player, doesn't matter who, shouldn't we trying to get the most of them? Havlat and Burns are both dynamic players, as is Nash, and I don't want to bring in any more guys who's talents are going to be muddled by the team's "system." I'd rather stick with the team we have and after they inevitably poop themselves in the playoffs we can try a new more darwinian coach.

Maybe I'm ranting...

I don't know.
I too find myself wondering about the system and difficulty fitting in. For example, how was it so easy for Boyle to adapt to TMac, but not Burns?

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02-25-2012, 12:37 AM
  #290
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Having a familiar partner in Lukowich was probably a big help.

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02-25-2012, 12:42 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Lebanezer View Post
Can someone explain to me why McLellan takes the players given to him and doesn't necessarily utilize their strengths. If it's a legitimate concern to bring in a player of Nash's ability and be worried that he might not be able to fit in the system, shouldn't we be looking for a coach who adapts his system based on the talent presented to him. My primary complaints in this regard are towards his usage of Brent Burns and Martin Havlat and too a lesser extent, Patrick Marleau, and if we bring in another player, doesn't matter who, shouldn't we trying to get the most of them? Havlat and Burns are both dynamic players, as is Nash, and I don't want to bring in any more guys who's talents are going to be muddled by the team's "system." I'd rather stick with the team we have and after they inevitably poop themselves in the playoffs we can try a new more darwinian coach.

Maybe I'm ranting...

I don't know.
Because he has multiple players who might all have different preferences? Teams generally need to have some kind of overall strategy; it can vary a bit line-by-line, but even then, getting 3+2 players to gel together is not easy.

Moreover, TMac's job isn't to provide a situation where the players can thrive. It isn't to provide an atmosphere where they are happy; where they get nice statistics. It is to WIN. By forcing Nash or Heatley to backcheck hard, not overely on the one-timer, share the wealth, and be perhaps the "secondary" threat on the team/line, is what TMac must think is condusive to winning.

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02-25-2012, 12:47 AM
  #292
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Purcell would be perfect, but my thread on the trade board some months ago got shot down by Bolts fans, saying they wouldn't give him up/don't think we're good trading partners. D prospect, 2013 2nd...and what?

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02-25-2012, 12:50 AM
  #293
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By forcing Nash or Heatley to backcheck hard, not overely on the one-timer, share the wealth, and be perhaps the "secondary" threat on the team/line, is what TMac must think is condusive to winning.
I was just thinking about the full team defense argument. Is there any reason why Thornton can't play sheltered minutes like the Sedins (~80% ES zone starts in the offensive zone, no PK, etc). It obviously isn't that detrimental on post-season play considering the Canucks were 1 game away from winning it all.
Is it because they have Kesler and Malhotra to do the heavy lifting for them? Couldn't Thornton have theoretically played sheltered minutes in 09-10, giving the defensive work to Pavelski and Malhotra?

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02-25-2012, 01:20 AM
  #294
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I'd rather Ott than Nash at this point, even though that will never happen.

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02-25-2012, 01:25 AM
  #295
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Because he has multiple players who might all have different preferences? Teams generally need to have some kind of overall strategy; it can vary a bit line-by-line, but even then, getting 3+2 players to gel together is not easy.

Moreover, TMac's job isn't to provide a situation where the players can thrive. It isn't to provide an atmosphere where they are happy; where they get nice statistics. It is to WIN. By forcing Nash or Heatley to backcheck hard, not overely on the one-timer, share the wealth, and be perhaps the "secondary" threat on the team/line, is what TMac must think is condusive to winning.
I understand what you're saying, but I get the impression that Tmac sticks with what's worked in the past with the players he knows. I don't feel like there is much adaption in his system or philosophy, or even opportunity for the newer players that come in. My point is simply about analyzing the talent and finding a way to use the entire team in the most effective way possible. I just don't feel like he does that. Which in turn concerns me when DW is thinking about bringing a player like Rich Nash or any other dynamic player.

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02-25-2012, 01:42 AM
  #296
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Can you imagine if we traded for Ott and he and Joe became good buds?
And I'm sure they would be. He seems a good guy off the ice.

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02-25-2012, 01:43 AM
  #297
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holy crap! I did not know this. **** nash
With a steadily rising salary in real dollars each year.

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02-25-2012, 01:45 AM
  #298
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Can you imagine if we traded for Ott and he and Joe became good buds?
And I'm sure they would be. He seems a good guy off the ice.
Man we should be bidding on him just to keep him off Vancouver

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02-25-2012, 02:03 AM
  #299
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Man we should be bidding on him just to keep him off Vancouver
Real. ****ing. Talk.

Marleau-Thornton-Ott
Clowe-Couture-Pavelski
McGinn-Moore-Wingels
Winchester-Handzus-Desjardins
Mitchell

Pretty awesome. But I'm bad at proposals and don't know what Dallas would want for him. And I doubt they'd trade with us anyway.

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02-25-2012, 02:04 AM
  #300
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If Anaheim can trade us Selanne, anybody in the Pacific can hook us up, provided we hook them up. I'm sure DW can swindle the Stars, play up a prospect to make the Stars think they simply can't pass him up. Hell even hype Ferriero's playoff "success."

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