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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 5

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Old
02-25-2012, 08:44 PM
  #451
BigDmitriy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Oh sure he sucked so bad the Kings signed him for 7 years.... And no he is better then Demers
Read this: http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/2/24/...rter-for-kings

That is all you need to know about JJ. He is S***! Demers is MUCH better than he is

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02-25-2012, 09:44 PM
  #452
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Sharks better not trade their #1 next year for some rental. I think its likely going to be a Top 15 pick. :-(

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02-25-2012, 09:50 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by The McMafia View Post
Had an odd idea on the way home last night.

Clowe + pick for Semin + forward prospect?
hell ****ing no

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Old
02-25-2012, 10:19 PM
  #454
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Remember last year when we fell so far out of playoffs that we had to use extra energy just to get in playoffs? Remember last year when we played Niemi too many games... Remember last year when our GM said he took too long to finish putting together the roster and this was all used as an excuse for our playoff loss.

What the ****!

This team, this coach, this GM is doing the same exact BS that cost us last year. It's unbelievable that they'd pull the same crap this year, again.

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:15 AM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Remember last year when we fell so far out of playoffs that we had to use extra energy just to get in playoffs? Remember last year when we played Niemi too many games... Remember last year when our GM said he took too long to finish putting together the roster and this was all used as an excuse for our playoff loss.

What the ****!

This team, this coach, this GM is doing the same exact BS that cost us last year. It's unbelievable that they'd pull the same crap this year, again.
This year, I think that it's playing Niemi too much that will keep us out of the playoffs. Trade Niemi for a tweener/3rd liner and get me Harding/Vokoun and I'm happy. Probably won't happen, but I can dream.

My other option is putting Niemi on the injured list(upper body injury aka confidence), and calling up Sexsmith. Then put Niemi on a conditioning assignment til he no longer sucks. I'm getting tired of the "race to 3" being the race to see if you can score 3 goals in the 1st period and get Niemi pulled...

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Old
02-26-2012, 12:20 AM
  #456
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While I'm not a Niemi fan, he's better than any options out there.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:01 AM
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickety Cricket View Post
While I'm not a Niemi fan, he's better than any options out there.
Vokoun?

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:40 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Inub0i View Post
Vokoun?
Vokoun isn't that good. Giggy same thing. The guys that are available aren't that good.

If they rest Nemo and give Greiss time, Nemo should get better. It will also give him the warning that it is a "perform or sit" team. When catering to the goalie's psyche, it can't go so far as to seriously debilitate the team. Even the most hard-headed coaches aren't immune to performances such as we have seen recently. Conversely, there are no coaches that are as impatient as fans and rightfully so. Maximally, I think TM will accept no more than 2 more subpar performances in the next 3 games before he gives Nemo an extended timeout.

I remember being called out by someone else when saying that Nemo's performances were tailing off a couple of weeks ago. Wonder where that poster is now.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:50 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Vokoun isn't that good. Giggy same thing. The guys that are available aren't that good.

If they rest Nemo and give Greiss time, Nemo should get better. It will also give him the warning that it is a "perform or sit" team. When catering to the goalie's psyche, it can't go so far as to seriously debilitate the team. Even the most hard-headed coaches aren't immune to performances such as we have seen recently. Conversely, there are no coaches that are as impatient as fans and rightfully so. Maximally, I think TM will accept no more than 2 more subpar performances in the next 3 games before he gives Nemo an extended timeout.

I remember being called out by someone else when saying that Nemo's performances were tailing off a couple of weeks ago. Wonder where that poster is now.
That may have been me. I still think you called it a bit too early although you appeared to have been right

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02-26-2012, 01:52 AM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
That may have been me. I still think you called it a bit too early although you appeared to have been right
Predictions are kinda about calling it early.

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:54 AM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Predictions are kinda about calling it early.
Analysis isn't

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Old
02-26-2012, 01:56 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Analysis isn't
It is if you're doing it right.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:20 AM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
That may have been me. I still think you called it a bit too early although you appeared to have been right
Thank you for the admission.

All the little bits were there. Little mistakes by Nemo that he doesn't ordinarily make and they were repeating and showing up in his stats which were a slightly depressed SV%. It was both watching and reading the numbers. I did the same last year with Nemo before he melted against LA and I called it before it happened then.

I have a hypothesis about goalies. They are like marathon runners. Marathoners go through repeated dehydration/rehydration cycles like goalies. Most professional marathoners schedule out an extended break in training every couple of months to recover. It isn't being dehydrated that is the problem. It is the small nicks and dings to the electrolyte balance with each cycle which throws off stamina, concentration, etc. A week or two of rest is all that is required. Lifestyle can also increment or decrement the breakpoint. Every person is different, some more resilient than others. But if the pro-marathoners are taking breaks, it should be something that hockey is looking at for goalies. The marathoners are doing it based on science.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:29 AM
  #464
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@sjeasy

And tonight your were proven right?

That's a thin pole to hang your hat on.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:32 AM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
@sjeasy

And tonight your were proven right?

That's a thin pole to hang your hat on.
It wasn't just tonight if you followed my description and reasoning. I noted Nashville and Anaheim as second half teams. You might want to check their recent records. You might want to note that I called the same last year on Nemo. It isn't the first time. Not here, but I called the Rangers improvement in points this year and I called it for the Canadians falling out. In both cases, I got a lot of flack.


Last edited by SJeasy: 02-26-2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old
02-26-2012, 02:39 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
It wasn't just tonight if you followed my description and reasoning.
Yet tonight is the night when you decide to make your proclamation when it has no bearing on reality. Playing him less would likely make for a better outcome, but nothing in this road trip has made it so. The team has sucked and Murray and Havlat out make a big difference.

This is the same team, plus Moore who hasn't really played yet, and you said it was the same as last years when it started. What is your basis for your new assessment?

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:51 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Yet tonight is the night when you decide to make your proclamation when it has no bearing on reality. Playing him less would likely make for a better outcome, but nothing in this road trip has made it so. The team has sucked and Murray and Havlat out make a big difference.

This is the same team, plus Moore who hasn't really played yet, and you said it was the same as last years when it started. What is your basis for your new assessment?
Not saying the team wouldn't be in the same place regards losing, but Niemi's issues are obvious now to others. I made the assessment some time ago as WA will attest. My point is that it is a slow decline; it isn't like falling off a cliff. Nemo could have a shutout in his next game but it wouldn't disprove my point. My point is that until rested that his SV% will decline and more steeply than Greiss' will. The same issue occurs with teams other than the Sharks.

This was not an issue when Havlat first went out of the lineup. It was becoming an issue before Murray went out.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:57 AM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Not saying the team wouldn't be in the same place regards losing, but Niemi's issues are obvious now to others. I made the assessment some time ago as WA will attest. My point is that it is a slow decline; it isn't like falling off a cliff. Nemo could have a shutout in his next game but it wouldn't disprove my point. My point is that until rested that his SV% will decline and more steeply than Greiss' will. The same issue occurs with teams other than the Sharks.

This was not an issue when Havlat first went out of the lineup. It was becoming an issue before Murray went out.
Well, I think it's a silly and baseless observation. I think it's nothing but an understandable lack of confidence built by the lack of team defense and I loudly disagree with the "boards" assessment of Niemi.

I do agree that Niemi's game has been much less than expected during the last 10+ games, but I think it's a combination of lack of confidence on his mistakes combined with the complete breakdown of our defensive play. It has little to do with his overall ability.

EDIT: How fewer games do you think he should have played by now that would have made a substantial difference in our win/loss column?


Last edited by Led Zappa: 02-26-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old
02-26-2012, 06:24 AM
  #469
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since feb 12th (start of the road trip).

greiss has started in 3 and came into relief in 1 other game.
niemi has started in 6 games, got pulled in 1 game.

greiss in his 3 starts, has gone 1-2. allowing 9 goals in those games. has posted sv% of .875, .880, .929. 3 goals against average, 2 goals in the relief game, posting a sv% of .846.

niemi in his 6 starts has gone 1-3-1, allowing 18 goals against in those games. has posted sv% of .571, .967, .727, .893, .760, .926. 3 goals against average.

no matter how you slice it, both goalies have been brutal on this road trip. which tends to lead to the observation that it is more the team then the actual goalies.

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Old
02-26-2012, 06:35 AM
  #470
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I'm really worried that DW will do something out of desperation.

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02-26-2012, 06:43 AM
  #471
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I'm really worried that DW will do something out of desperation.
That's my worry too. I think DW isn't stupid enough to move Pavelski, Couture, or Vlasic (the only real top-end talent without NTC's or NMC's), but I could see him gutting the prospect pool and saying to Howson "We'll give you everyone one of our best prospects and a couple of firsts for Nash". So:

Irwin or Petrecki + Sateri + Nieto + Sgarbossa + Hamilton + 2012 1st + 2013 1st + ??

for

Nash

And DW will hold a press conference saying how he got Nash without giving up any current roster players and how Nash is signed long term, yada, yada, yada.

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:03 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
That's my worry too. I think DW isn't stupid enough to move Pavelski, Couture, or Vlasic (the only real top-end talent without NTC's or NMC's), but I could see him gutting the prospect pool and saying to Howson "We'll give you everyone one of our best prospects and a couple of firsts for Nash". So:

Irwin or Petrecki + Sateri + Nieto + Sgarbossa + Hamilton + 2012 1st + 2013 1st + ??

for

Nash

And DW will hold a press conference saying how he got Nash without giving up any current roster players and how Nash is signed long term, yada, yada, yada.
I'd rather him give up all that for another D-man at this point.

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:49 AM
  #473
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Bring up Stalock. Problem solved.

As far as the deadline, Im hoping DW stays quite now, or sells to obtain some picks/prospects cause at this point (baring a miracle) this team isn't going far if anywhere at all.


Last edited by sjshrky27: 02-26-2012 at 08:07 AM.
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Old
02-26-2012, 08:41 AM
  #474
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If DW makes any moves it will be a depth move. The trade market is dead this year due to the tighness of each conference. So unless he pulls something out of nowhere, I'm not expecting much.

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Old
02-26-2012, 10:04 AM
  #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
That's my worry too. I think DW isn't stupid enough to move Pavelski, Couture, or Vlasic (the only real top-end talent without NTC's or NMC's), but I could see him gutting the prospect pool and saying to Howson "We'll give you everyone one of our best prospects and a couple of firsts for Nash". So:

Irwin or Petrecki + Sateri + Nieto + Sgarbossa + Hamilton + 2012 1st + 2013 1st + ??

for

Nash

And DW will hold a press conference saying how he got Nash without giving up any current roster players and how Nash is signed long term, yada, yada, yada.
I'm sure while those are our top prospects they aren't really "top" prospects by league standards. Certainly not to the level that NYR can offer, that's for sure. I wouldn't give up the 2 1sts with all that though, that other than Nieto and maybe Petrecki are the most valuable things on there. I don't put much stock into Goalie prospects.

With that said, if all it took was a bunch of nickel and dime pieces to get a dollar piece (nash) I'd be all for it. We have to dump salary a bit to make it work I think? Clowe at the minimum has to go, both in the interest of SJ and CBJ (they have to have a semblance of a team next year.)

Compared to a NYR rumored package:

Clowe>Dubinsky
Kreider>>Nieto
Erixxon=Petrecki (?)
SJ 1st > NYR 1st

We can easily match their rumored best offer. Maybe Clowe hasn't been put on the table yet by DW, and is a move he'll save when everyone else bows out? Clowe is probably the best NHL forward Howson can get. I'd be skeptical on Clowe re-signing in CBJ though if I was Howson. Not that it'll be his problem to deal with

Edit:
Assuming CBJ takes an SJ offer of Clowe, Nieto, Petrecki, (maybe a goalie prospect?) 1st and 2nd (high end of the offers we can give.) Their team is in as a good a shape you can be after trading their two best players.

Yakupov/Johansen/Clowe
x/Brassard/Umberger
x/Letetsu/Pahlson

Tyutin/JJ
xx/Wiz
Clitsome/Methot

I probably got their depth wrong, trying to remember what it looked like off the top of my head. But they'll also have 3 1sts in 2012 most likely, multiple 2's and 3's. They easily have the ammo to move back up in the top 5 and maybe score a Grigorenko or a top D man in the draft along with Nail.


Last edited by Franchise13: 02-26-2012 at 10:17 AM.
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