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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 5

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Old
02-26-2012, 10:11 AM
  #476
stalockrox
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post
Bring up Stalock. Problem solved.

As far as the deadline, Im hoping DW stays quite now, or sells to obtain some picks/prospects cause at this point (baring a miracle) this team isn't going far if anywhere at all.
Not sure if you're serious or not - but people calling for Niitty (who's sucking it up in the AHL) or Sexsmith or Stalock really need to stop.

Stalock just came back from a year long injury and still doesn't have feeling in part of his leg, they're doing the right thing by easing him back into the AHL but he's just not an option, period.

I get people hate Niemi and think this slump is all on him, that's fine. I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't much matter who's been in goal over the last 10 games, the Sharks defensive game right now is absolute garbage. Somehow, they went from being a top 5 defensive team for the first 50 games to a bottom 5 team the past 10 games.

If Murray is going to be out for an extended period of time, they need to bring in a top 4 d-man to replace him & get Colin White out of the line up..and no, Vandermeer isn't any better than White.

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02-26-2012, 10:16 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
I'm sure while those are our top prospects they aren't really "top" prospects by league standards. Certainly not to the level that NYR can offer, that's for sure. I wouldn't give up the 2 1sts with all that though, that other than Nieto and maybe Petrecki are the most valuable things on there. I don't put much stock into Goalie prospects.

With that said, if all it took was a bunch of nickel and dime pieces to get a dollar piece (nash) I'd be all for it. We have to dump salary a bit to make it work I think? Clowe at the minimum has to go, both in the interest of SJ and CBJ (they have to have a semblance of a team next year.)

Compared to a NYR rumored package:

Clowe>Dubinsky
Kreider>>Nieto
Erixxon=Petrecki (?)
SJ 1st > NYR 1st

We can easily match their rumored best offer. Maybe Clowe hasn't been put on the table yet by DW, and is a move he'll save when everyone else bows out? Clowe is probably the best NHL forward Howson can get. I'd be skeptical on Clowe re-signing in CBJ though if I was Howson. Not that it'll be his problem to deal with
Erixxon is way, way, way better than Petrecki...

But I agree, if Wilson could get Nash for more or less nothing, I'd probably do it as well. They wouldn't have to clear salary until the offseason.

There's some rumors out there that Nashville has made a very good offer, if there's a team (fans) out there that deserves Rick Nash, it's Nashville - not sure he's waive his MNC for them though.

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02-26-2012, 10:22 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Erixxon is way, way, way better than Petrecki...

But I agree, if Wilson could get Nash for more or less nothing, I'd probably do it as well. They wouldn't have to clear salary until the offseason.

There's some rumors out there that Nashville has made a very good offer, if there's a team (fans) out there that deserves Rick Nash, it's Nashville - not sure he's waive his MNC for them though.
I actually like Nashville as a fan of the game, love their team and how they are built. The abundance of Carrie Underwood cut away shots in no way influences me at all. Nope, not at all

Unfortunately, I don't think Nash has them on the list, and per his/agent's comments I don't see that changing. Unless it was just a veiled power play attempt to tell howson to hurry the **** up.

I figured Erixxon was better, way better (just by the sounds of things) heh. Just didn't know enough to make a definitive statement on it.

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02-26-2012, 10:46 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
I'm sure while those are our top prospects they aren't really "top" prospects by league standards. Certainly not to the level that NYR can offer, that's for sure. I wouldn't give up the 2 1sts with all that though, that other than Nieto and maybe Petrecki are the most valuable things on there. I don't put much stock into Goalie prospects.
No, they aren't top prospects in the league by a long shot. But since I really don't want Nash in the first place, I remain concerned that DW will continue his long-term trend of "damn the future, damn the prospects, damn development.... I want BIG NAME players!!!!". Which to me means, he's continue to make dumb moves like Heatley, Geurin, Campell, Rivet, Brown, etc.

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02-26-2012, 10:51 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
No, they aren't top prospects in the league by a long shot. But since I really don't want Nash in the first place, I remain concerned that DW will continue his long-term trend of "damn the future, damn the prospects, damn development.... I want BIG NAME players!!!!". Which to me means, he's continue to make dumb moves like Heatley, Geurin, Campell, Rivet, Brown, etc.
Exactly. The guy has one move - trade futures for expensive players and hope those picks don't pan out for the other team. He's getting pretty darn close to trading everything away too. Then what's he gonna do? Sign more Colin White's and Handzus's... not good for the future of this team.

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02-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #481
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Apparently Plekanec is willing to waive NTC. I'm just shooting out any name I see in hopes of an option other than Nash.

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02-26-2012, 11:21 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
since feb 12th (start of the road trip).

greiss has started in 3 and came into relief in 1 other game.
niemi has started in 6 games, got pulled in 1 game.

greiss in his 3 starts, has gone 1-2. allowing 9 goals in those games. has posted sv% of .875, .880, .929. 3 goals against average, 2 goals in the relief game, posting a sv% of .846.

niemi in his 6 starts has gone 1-3-1, allowing 18 goals against in those games. has posted sv% of .571, .967, .727, .893, .760, .926. 3 goals against average.

no matter how you slice it, both goalies have been brutal on this road trip. which tends to lead to the observation that it is more the team then the actual goalies.
Greiss has not started three on the trip. One of his losses was an early relief appearance.

LZ,
Nemo needed about 5 less games up to this point. More importantly, he needed a consecutive games stretch where Greiss started. I don't think it is confidence at all; it is hitting at about the same timing point as last year. It is the same timing point for a lot of goalies although some allowance has to be made for individuals in the larger observation.

Not disagreeing that Greiss has not looked good either, only slightly better. And relief appearances are terribly misleading.

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02-26-2012, 11:29 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Greiss has not started three on the trip. One of his losses was an early relief appearance.

LZ,
Nemo needed about 5 less games up to this point. More importantly, he needed a consecutive games stretch where Greiss started. I don't think it is confidence at all; it is hitting at about the same timing point as last year. It is the same timing point for a lot of goalies although some allowance has to be made for individuals in the larger observation.

Not disagreeing that Greiss has not looked good either, only slightly better. And relief appearances are terribly misleading.
Not sure what you mean by 'the same timing point as last year' as it was about this time that Niemi was carrying the team on his back.

I also completely disagree that it isn't confidence at all, confidence is a big factor in goaltending and it's pretty clear that Niemi's is suffering.

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02-26-2012, 11:49 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Apparently Plekanec is willing to waive NTC. I'm just shooting out any name I see in hopes of an option other than Nash.
I hear you. We clearly need something. Nash is too expensive and I think Pleks would be, too.

How about MacArthur or AK? Either may be good fits for the 3rd line tweener role.

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02-26-2012, 11:57 AM
  #485
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I think what we 'need' is a new coach. We have great personnel, players other teams would kill to have, and a lot of them. This team is highly dysfunctional. It's not really an effort problem, or a skill problem, it is a motivation and strategy problem.

Look at the NYR. That's a team that is playing well, but clearly still missing a piece of the puzzle. Adding any player at this point I don't feel is going to have a lot of impact. We have bigger problems.

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02-26-2012, 11:58 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Not sure what you mean by 'the same timing point as last year' as it was about this time that Niemi was carrying the team on his back.

I also completely disagree that it isn't confidence at all, confidence is a big factor in goaltending and it's pretty clear that Niemi's is suffering.
I agree that Niemi is suffering the confidence issue to a degree, but I don't think that is the root of the issue. Nemo started his descent last year in March. It is the issue of consecutive starts or almost consecutive. Last year, he had an extended time on IR and where he was splitting time. This year he started hitting the wall in late January.

Part of my underlying reasoning is having watched a lot of playoff hockey over the last few years. I have been seeing a lot of goaltenders who are subpar in the playoffs. Almost all of those who look subpar are guys who have been overused but who are otherwise excellent. I have seen Miller drop off (not last year), Lundqvist, Luongo, etc. Another part is the track record of guys who have been given the appropriate rest which accounts for all SC wins since Brodeur last won the cup. As an example, I just upgraded my projection on Detroit where Howard's injury was likely a blessing in disguise. IMO, Nashville is hurting the team's chances by riding Rinne so hard.

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02-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think what we 'need' is a new coach. We have great personnel, players other teams would kill to have, and a lot of them. This team is highly dysfunctional. It's not really an effort problem, or a skill problem, it is a motivation and strategy problem.

Look at the NYR. That's a team that is playing well, but clearly still missing a piece of the puzzle. Adding any player at this point I don't feel is going to have a lot of impact. We have bigger problems.
I don't disagree but that's something for the offseason. TMac won't be fired during the season and DW can still find a high-end 3rd line tweener forward. We'll need one next year so if one can be had for cheap, he should still go for it.

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02-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think what we 'need' is a new coach. We have great personnel, players other teams would kill to have, and a lot of them. This team is highly dysfunctional. It's not really an effort problem, or a skill problem, it is a motivation and strategy problem.

Look at the NYR. That's a team that is playing well, but clearly still missing a piece of the puzzle. Adding any player at this point I don't feel is going to have a lot of impact. We have bigger problems.
I think the team has been struggling with finding a consistent strategy all year.

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02-26-2012, 12:21 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think what we 'need' is a new coach. We have great personnel, players other teams would kill to have, and a lot of them. This team is highly dysfunctional. It's not really an effort problem, or a skill problem, it is a motivation and strategy problem.

Look at the NYR. That's a team that is playing well, but clearly still missing a piece of the puzzle. Adding any player at this point I don't feel is going to have a lot of impact. We have bigger problems.
The players poll basically voted Mclellan as one of the best coaches in the league (players want to play for him, and he's a demanding coach). I don't see how we could get anyone better than T-Mac right now.

Some might disagree with me, but what about a new GM? Someone to finish the job ala Stan Bowman. We have top end pieces here already, he just has to fill out the roster with better depth players, and maybe the new guy won't be afraid to get "creative" with the contracts with more years to lower cap hits, etc. (or like Gillis did hiding Ballard yesterday) The window is closing. Who cares if we have a 40 year old with a $4M cap hit 7 years from now??

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02-26-2012, 12:25 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
since feb 12th (start of the road trip).

greiss has started in 3 and came into relief in 1 other game.
niemi has started in 6 games, got pulled in 1 game.

greiss in his 3 starts, has gone 1-2. allowing 9 goals in those games. has posted sv% of .875, .880, .929. 3 goals against average, 2 goals in the relief game, posting a sv% of .846.

niemi in his 6 starts has gone 1-3-1, allowing 18 goals against in those games. has posted sv% of .571, .967, .727, .893, .760, .926. 3 goals against average.

no matter how you slice it, both goalies have been brutal on this road trip. which tends to lead to the observation that it is more the team then the actual goalies.
Greiss has started two and come in relief for two. He is 1-1 in his starts and got hung for the loss in Columbus but the team didn't get started until it was 4-0.

Greiss has been good the entire time. The team has at points in his appearances not played that hard because the game was already decided or they had no momentum and hadn't got started.

Nemo has been hung out to dry as well during this road trip and while he can certainly play better himself, it won't make a difference with what the team has been giving up and asking him to stop on a regular basis. Ever since the All-Star break ended, the team has basically forgotten how to play defense in their own zone and until they fix it, they won't win.

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02-26-2012, 12:40 PM
  #491
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It is becoming more apparent that Wilson is not going to do anything major again this year and maybe pull off a minor deal for some depth either today or tomorrow. He will say he is gonna rely on his injured stars to come back to form for the playoffs,and then when they lose in the 1st round to VAN or DET the organization will blame the injuries. That's not why this will be a shorter season this year.Its the next two days and what front office does to get some confidence back in this under performing team. What gonna be the state of this Team on Tuesday against Philly

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02-26-2012, 01:09 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
The players poll basically voted Mclellan as one of the best coaches in the league (players want to play for him, and he's a demanding coach). I don't see how we could get anyone better than T-Mac right now.

Some might disagree with me, but what about a new GM? Someone to finish the job ala Stan Bowman. We have top end pieces here already, he just has to fill out the roster with better depth players, and maybe the new guy won't be afraid to get "creative" with the contracts with more years to lower cap hits, etc. (or like Gillis did hiding Ballard yesterday) The window is closing. Who cares if we have a 40 year old with a $4M cap hit 7 years from now??
Stan Bowman cared

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02-26-2012, 01:26 PM
  #493
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Stan Bowman cared
He's the one that signed Keith to the 13 year contract. Bowman doesn't care.

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02-26-2012, 01:30 PM
  #494
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He's the one that signed Keith to the 13 year contract. Bowman doesn't care.
Keith is a home grown norris winning number 1 D. That is totally different. This had nothing to do with adding a piece. In fact Bowman put considerable effort dropping large contract that had to do with added pieces.

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02-26-2012, 01:42 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Keith is a home grown norris winning number 1 D. That is totally different. This had nothing to do with adding a piece. In fact Bowman put considerable effort dropping large contract that had to do with added pieces.
Doesn't matter. Keith isn't going to be Norris calibur at age 40, and he still signed him to the deal ($5.5M is a lot more than the $4M example I used anyways). He dumped Campbell, but that contract wasn't one of those cap circumventing ones. $7 million on the cap hit is no discount. Wilson has made some great moves to put us in this position, but like Tallon, he's not getting the job done. Bring in a closer (a Bowman) to get us a championship and help rebuild the scorched Earth prospect pool that we now have. Sign a Hossa to a monster deal if you have to. It really doesn't matter, because Wilson isn't setting up this team to compete 5,6,7 years from now.

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02-26-2012, 04:20 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think what we 'need' is a new coach. We have great personnel, players other teams would kill to have, and a lot of them. This team is highly dysfunctional. It's not really an effort problem, or a skill problem, it is a motivation and strategy problem.

Look at the NYR. That's a team that is playing well, but clearly still missing a piece of the puzzle. Adding any player at this point I don't feel is going to have a lot of impact. We have bigger problems.
I think we need more strategists. I mean all the championship teams have 2-3 capable head coaches roaming the benches. They are just not named the head coach. I think Vancouver uses there roster to maximum efficiency as well as Nashville, I think Nashville will be a tough team because they seem to have every line meshing. I think our lines are kind of the same ol. I hope they have a couple of tricks up there sleeve or we are a one trick pony.

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02-26-2012, 04:56 PM
  #497
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If we lose today, does DW panic? Is his job on the line this year? I know there's no precedent for him overpaying for a star player, but would he cave in and give CLB Pavelski for Nash?

I know nobody here wants him to do that, but with us being a borderling playoff team right now, does anyone fear that DW might do a panic move?

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02-26-2012, 04:58 PM
  #498
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I'm expecting atleast one more move for a depth forward and/or Dman depending on the health of murray and Havlat. Not much more than that.

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02-26-2012, 05:07 PM
  #499
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I'm expecting a top 6 FW but that's about it

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02-26-2012, 05:20 PM
  #500
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Vokoun isn't that good.
He has a better save percentage each of the last 3 years than Niemi's best, and has had 7 in a row (8 including this year) with a Sv% better than Niemi's current numbers. He has saved more than 92% of his shots 4 times in the last 6 years, the other two being a .919. You can say that you don't think we need Vokoun, but he is a really good goalie, and we'd be better with him.

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