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All-Purpose Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread Part 5

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02-24-2012, 09:03 AM
  #101
stalockrox
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Originally Posted by Sniper Archetype View Post
Richards and Pavelski were never that far apart. There was a lot of over-hyping of Richards in his Philly days. Pavelski does a lot of the things that Richards does, but he's probably less flashy and probably a less talented scorer. Just my opinion.
I think the biggest difference between Richards & Pavs is skating...

I've said it for a long time, but Pavelski should be in the same conversations (even though he's now playing wing) as Richards, Bergeron, Kesler. I know fans think Pavs is a step down from those 3 but I don't think there's a whole lot that separates them.

And I really can't understand how Dustin Brown is going to be worth more in a trade than Jeff Carter. Yes, his contract is long but Carter is the better player, by quite a bit - LA's looking for a good young top 4 d-man + a scorer...really?

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02-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I'm curious, next time LW is around, what his opinion on Mike Richards is (and anyone else that would like to chip in). I used to think that Richards was in a different league than Pavelski, but now I'm not so sure...
This might sound ridiculous but I really think Richards just wasn't cut out for the Western Conference. IMO there's a big difference between being matched up against the best forwards in the East and the best forwards in the West. A lot of the top guys in the East like Kovalchuk, Kessel, Gaborik, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Spezza (at least prior to this year...looks like that leopard may have changed his spots), etc. are in reality not that difficult to play against. They can create tons of scoring opportunities, sure, but they give up just as many at the other end of the ice and Richards was able to take advantage of that. Playing against complete players like Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Backes, M. Koivu, Thornton, Hanzal, Stastny and the like is a much different challenge and it's obvious based on Richards' numbers this year he wasn't at all cut out for it. His underlyings are grotesque and he's slowly been moved away from the top matchups, a process that even started when Murray was still head coach.

That's why I think his two-way game was always a bit overrated and it looks like Lavi agreed, at least last year, when he gave Carter tougher matchups (although some of that was Richards playing with crap for much of the season). He's a solid player I think and he might rebound eventually when he learns how to modify his game to play in the West (although it's been a while already) but I would definitely take Pavelski over him and would for the past 3-4 years, even without taking contracts into consideration.


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02-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
And I really can't understand how Dustin Brown is going to be worth more in a trade than Jeff Carter. Yes, his contract is long but Carter is the better player, by quite a bit - LA's looking for a good young top 4 d-man + a scorer...really?
Yeah, that's ridiculous. I guess it's a supply and demand thing but that makes it even more insane - why are more GMs interested in a second-line winger that's great at drawing penalties, not so great at much else than an elite, bonafide two-way force of a #1 center? The NHL is weird sometimes. There's like maybe eight GMs who actually know what they're doing.

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02-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
This might sound ridiculous but I really think Richards just wasn't cut out for the Western Conference. IMO there's a big difference between being matched up against the best forwards in the East and the best forwards in the West. A lot of the top guys in the East like Kovalchuk, Kessel, Gaborik, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Spezza (at least prior to this year...looks like that leopard may have changed his spots), etc. are in reality not that difficult to play against. They can create tons of scoring opportunities, sure, but they give up just as many at the other end of the ice and Richards was able to take advantage of that. Playing against complete players like Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Backes, M. Koivu, Thornton, Hanzal, Stastny and the like is a much different challenge and it's obvious based on Richards' numbers this year he wasn't at all cut out for it. His underlyings are grotesque and he's slowly been moved away from the top matchups, a process that even started when Murray was still head coach.

That's why I think his two-way game was always a bit overrated and it looks like Lavi agreed, at least last year, when he gave Carter tougher matchups (although some of that was Richards playing with crap for much of the season). He's a solid player I think and he might rebound eventually when he learns how to modify his game to play in the West (although it's been a while already) but I would definitely take Pavelski over him and would for the past 3-4 years, even without taking contracts into consideration.
I agree and have thought so for a long time.

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02-24-2012, 09:47 AM
  #105
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Per Dreger:
Busy day ahead. Leafs will push CBJ to make decision on Nash. Would like to know by tomorrow. NYR will likely do the same. Brown is plan B.

I still think Nash remains a Blue Jacket until this summer.

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02-24-2012, 10:01 AM
  #106
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so did DW pull any trigger after that Jeff Carter deal?.... no huh... oh well....

1st round exit here we come! ha ha. esp after watching Detroit and Vancouver last night. G-dman they are fast! and i still hate those teams! GRRRRRR!!!

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02-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #107
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From the sounds of it only the leafs and rangers have significant deals tabled for Nash. It makes sense, I suppose we could give clowe, prospect, prospect, 1st for Nash...and it really comes down to what the GM/Coach feels about those prospects and who they may be able to draft if thats an overpayment or not.

but ferriero, wingels, mcarthy, sexsmith ...i really only see wingels making the step up a la couture, and mcarthy definitely has 3/4 potential while sexsmith/stalock could both be our future goalies.

so ferriero to me is expendable, and our 1st rounder is pretty valuable but no AS valuable as it could be.

clowe is a good player, but if that package nets nash i think we improve overall when havlat returns. is it a big enough improvement? im guessing thats what they are trying to figure out.

If it has taken them this long to determine pavelskis worth in this situation i feel sorry for our management situation.

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02-24-2012, 10:12 AM
  #108
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Yeah let's get Brown ha ha!

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02-24-2012, 10:26 AM
  #109
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I doubt Carter going to Hell A. will make much of a difference, especially if they put the entire offense on his shoulders not unlike Columbus. I feel bad for JJ. First Simmonds and now Brown, does that team have any productive players with grit left? Desperate Deano is going to get fired again.

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02-24-2012, 10:33 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Per Dreger:
Busy day ahead. Leafs will push CBJ to make decision on Nash. Would like to know by tomorrow. NYR will likely do the same. Brown is plan B.

I still think Nash remains a Blue Jacket until this summer.
I think the only circumstances where I trade Nash are at the deadline. That's where you're going to get the most value for him, simply because of the teams bidding for him will be more aggressive now than they will in the off-season. I think you either trade him now, or if the offers suck, you hold him until next deadline.

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02-24-2012, 10:34 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
I think the only circumstances where I trade Nash are at the deadline. That's where you're going to get the most value for him, simply because of the teams bidding for him will be more aggressive now than they will in the off-season. I think you either trade him now, or if the offers suck, you hold him until next deadline.
That would be brutal man.

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02-24-2012, 10:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
I think the only circumstances where I trade Nash are at the deadline. That's where you're going to get the most value for him, simply because of the teams bidding for him will be more aggressive now than they will in the off-season. I think you either trade him now, or if the offers suck, you hold him until next deadline.
I've already said many times why I think Howson would get a better deal in the summer, so I'll just say I disagree. But, seeing has he just got fleeced on the Carter deal, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nash moved for secondary players and picks.

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02-24-2012, 10:42 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by crunchyblack View Post
This was basically my train of thought too, although I like that he's a skilled, big bodied dude which would be great on a line with cooter and clowe. Could really help open up the ice and add some scoring flare.

I was hoping that maybe DW would be able to get him a little discounted since he's injured.
I don't know if you realize this, but there's no way we get JVR without giving up at least Clowe...

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02-24-2012, 11:13 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I don't know if you realize this, but there's no way we get JVR without giving up at least Clowe...
Well, you could, but you'd have to instead give up a defensemen + or something.

The problem with Clowe is, he only has a year left on his contract and CBJ needs to be concerned he won't re-sign. That said, I'm not sure it's much better to have a guy signed long term on your team that doesn't want to be there either.

If New York is stupid enough to trade for Nash, I think they are going to get him at this point. I honestly didn't think they'd be that dumb (to mess with what's working). Honestly, NYR would be better to trade for Dustin Brown or JVR or someone on that level, not Rick Nash.

Be funny if New York trades for Dustin Brown, Leaf's trade for JVR, and CBJ is left with only Doug Wilson to talk to. heh.

I would btw love to get JVR or Brown, Brown especially.

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02-24-2012, 11:29 AM
  #115
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Well, you could, but you'd have to instead give up a defensemen + or something.

The problem with Clowe is, he only has a year left on his contract and CBJ needs to be concerned he won't re-sign. That said, I'm not sure it's much better to have a guy signed long term on your team that doesn't want to be there either.

If New York is stupid enough to trade for Nash, I think they are going to get him at this point. I honestly didn't think they'd be that dumb (to mess with what's working). Honestly, NYR would be better to trade for Dustin Brown or JVR or someone on that level, not Rick Nash.

Be funny if New York trades for Dustin Brown, Leaf's trade for JVR, and CBJ is left with only Doug Wilson to talk to. heh.

I would btw love to get JVR or Brown, Brown especially.
That would be hilarious - then it would certainly be Clowe + combo of picks or prospects. Take it or leave it Howsen and he'd know it's not like things get better in the offseason if the Rangers and Leafs bow out. Who else could fit Nash in, want Nash and vice versa?

Shifting gears, contract aside, how about Umberger? He could be another buy low situation and actually, his $4.6m deal is probably what Clowe would want in his next deal?

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02-24-2012, 11:35 AM
  #116
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Miettinen on waivers.. Don't do it DW.

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02-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #117
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Miettinen on waivers.. Don't do it DW.
The Sharks can't claim Miettinen w/o getting rid of an NHL contract first...not that they would put in a claim anyway.

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02-24-2012, 11:45 AM
  #118
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Well, you could, but you'd have to instead give up a defensemen + or something.

The problem with Clowe is, he only has a year left on his contract and CBJ needs to be concerned he won't re-sign. That said, I'm not sure it's much better to have a guy signed long term on your team that doesn't want to be there either.

If New York is stupid enough to trade for Nash, I think they are going to get him at this point. I honestly didn't think they'd be that dumb (to mess with what's working). Honestly, NYR would be better to trade for Dustin Brown or JVR or someone on that level, not Rick Nash.

Be funny if New York trades for Dustin Brown, Leaf's trade for JVR, and CBJ is left with only Doug Wilson to talk to. heh.

I would btw love to get JVR or Brown, Brown especially.
You guys don't feel that JVR is even more of a risk than Nash? Yes, he's younger, but his ceiling is what Nash is now and Nash might not have reached his yet.

Lots of parallels between the two of them, besides the similarities in their game. Both are definitely paid for their unrefined talent moreso than actual production. Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to have another awesome American player on the Sharks to pair with Pavs, but there should be questions on why JVR is available in the first place.

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02-24-2012, 11:46 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
That would be hilarious - then it would certainly be Clowe + combo of picks or prospects. Take it or leave it Howsen and he'd know it's not like things get better in the offseason if the Rangers and Leafs bow out. Who else could fit Nash in, want Nash and vice versa?

Shifting gears, contract aside, how about Umberger? He could be another buy low situation and actually, his $4.6m deal is probably what Clowe would want in his next deal?
Whatever we do, I think DW will try to make the team faster (as he should).

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02-24-2012, 11:51 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
You guys don't feel that JVR is even more of a risk than Nash? Yes, he's younger, but his ceiling is what Nash is now and Nash might not have reached his yet.

Lots of parallels between the two of them, besides the similarities in their game. Both are definitely paid for their unrefined talent moreso than actual production. Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to have another awesome American player on the Sharks to pair with Pavs, but there should be questions on why JVR is available in the first place.
It's probably because all of their rookies are really good. Schenn, Read, and Courtier...

Oh and there's this guy named Giroux...

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02-24-2012, 11:51 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Whatever we do, I think DW will try to make the team faster (as he should).
Would you guys be open to a rental Hemsky? ...or is that too much of a risk considering Havlat's tendency to get hurt already.

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02-24-2012, 11:55 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by LionSpeak View Post
It's probably because all of their rookies are really good. Schenn, Read, and Courtier...

Oh and there's this guy named Giroux...
Having other good players doesn't make him less valuable. Expendable to fill a hole, maybe. Need to realize this guy is going to get paid more than Pavelski. Granted Pavs is on a sweetheart deal, but if that's the standard we are holding Nash to it should be the same for JVR who's even less of a guarantee.

Like I said, don't get me wrong, I like JVR, very much so actually... But both Nash and JVR are probably overpaid by about 1.5M.

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02-24-2012, 12:00 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
Having other good players doesn't make him less valuable. Expendable to fill a hole, maybe. Need to realize this guy is going to get paid more than Pavelski. Granted Pavs is on a sweetheart deal, but if that's the standard we are holding Nash to it should be the same for JVR who's even less of a guarantee.

Like I said, don't get me wrong, I like JVR, very much so actually... But both Nash and JVR are probably overpaid by about 1.5M.
I wasn't implying that it did, but if there is more than enough talent at the forward position to go around and you have a very alarming need on D then you definitely have to explore your options. I'd love to have JVR, but I don't think it'll happen. Philly will (probably) just hose Toronto or something, get Luke to play with his brother.

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02-24-2012, 12:02 PM
  #124
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We can't even afford to give up the kind of dman the Flyers want so pass on JvR.

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02-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Yeah, that's ridiculous. I guess it's a supply and demand thing but that makes it even more insane - why are more GMs interested in a second-line winger that's great at drawing penalties, not so great at much else than an elite, bonafide two-way force of a #1 center? The NHL is weird sometimes. There's like maybe eight GMs who actually know what they're doing.
Even if they adhere so strongly to hockey sabremetrics, they may believe that in different circumstances, a player can do better.

Team philosophies, team ideologies, etc.

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