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Old
02-24-2012, 11:34 PM
  #301
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Win tomorrow and your team is a buyer. Plain and simple.

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02-25-2012, 12:49 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by troyerlaw View Post
And as you point out, RH, he hasnt historically been a liability in closing seconds.
True. But the Caps haven't had a lot of very late game leads to protect in the last few months either. I understand the instinct not to risk them when they happen. If they become more common then I think Ovie deserves the chance to salt the game and pad his stats. That said, good on Ward for getting it done tonight.

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02-25-2012, 01:44 AM
  #303
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Good win. Don't like Brooks at the point, but that's really my only complaint.

Gotta say, Orlov is incredibly impressive to watch. His body positioning is phenomenal behind the net.

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02-25-2012, 06:24 AM
  #304
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True. But the Caps haven't had a lot of very late game leads to protect in the last few months either. I understand the instinct not to risk them when they happen. If they become more common then I think Ovie deserves the chance to salt the game and pad his stats. That said, good on Ward for getting it done tonight.
Ward's warming up!

I think its good to note that in previous years past playing with a ton of leads, Ovi did fine. In part because when the puck was on his stick, he wouldn't do the predictable soft chip off the board to center, facing another attack in mere seconds; he would put the puck in the net and end the game proper.

Along those same lines, I wish more players would take the "risk" of icing the puck to get a good shot at the ENG knowing we have our faceoff ace out already. I am not sold the chip is always the best play, especially when you have someone that doesn't miss the empty net.

Its one of my complaints of Dale. Even up two goals, no Ovi? The fans are paying to see him. Dale could care less.

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02-25-2012, 07:26 AM
  #305
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Its one of my complaints of Dale. Even up two goals, no Ovi? The fans are paying to see him. Dale could care less.
He's just trying to help GM justify that $12M on a worthless player.

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02-25-2012, 07:28 AM
  #306
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it was bruce's philosophy to get his hands team on the ice with an empty net and ice the game. ov, backstrom, green were always on the ice. hunters goes the hands of stone route. its a typical difference. boudreau thought the best defense was playing in the other team's zone. huntsie thinks the best defense is by playing good defense.

its little things like no offensive players on the ice for empty net time that tell me the safe game plans are hunter's desire.

rh, i'll say this much. i am not in favor of trading off the ufa's when the playoffs are to be made. this i idea of selling and quitting when winning a single game gets them back in is wrong.

half of the best jobs ive had in my life were jobs i had no shot at getting when i applied. flyers went to the finals after making the 8 on the last day. montreal ecf after being an 8. carolina ecf after being a pretty awful 6 or 7. i am not surprised necessarily that so much of this forum has gone sjogren on us, but i chalk that up to so many loving the idea of firing and trading and making them pay with rejection.

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02-25-2012, 07:29 AM
  #307
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He's just trying to help GM justify that $12M on a worthless player.
Green looks fine.

I am now for a Wides trade. Add Knuble for someone like Stoll

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02-25-2012, 07:30 AM
  #308
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Good to see Alan May give Semin some props for the pass he made to spring Chimera for the breakaway. That was a classic take a hit to make a play -- he had 2 guys on him, contact was inevitable, but he still waited that extra second for Chim to come open, and put a beautiful pass onto his stick. If he doesn't disregard the contact that's coming and wait that extra beat, there's no goal there. People that call Semin soft don't watch him play along the boards very closely

RH - if you keep talking about empty net goals, we're gonna have to dredge up the old Al Iafrate quote. Maybe Dale's already explained to Ovie that that's why he doesn't put him out in ENG situations.

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02-25-2012, 07:36 AM
  #309
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Good to see Alan May give Semin some props for the pass he made to spring Chimera for the breakaway. That was a classic take a hit to make a play -- he had 2 guys on him, contact was inevitable, but he still waited that extra second for Chim to come open, and put a beautiful pass onto his stick. If he doesn't disregard the contact that's coming and wait that extra beat, there's no goal there. People that call Semin soft don't watch him play along the boards very closely

RH - if you keep talking about empty net goals, we're gonna have to dredge up the old Al Iafrate quote. Maybe Dale's already explained to Ovie that that's why he doesn't put him out in ENG situations.
That Semin hit was akin to a QB standing tall in the pocket.

Extend him after the season.


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02-25-2012, 07:45 AM
  #310
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rh, i'll say this much. i am not in favor of trading off the ufa's when the playoffs are to be made. this i idea of selling and quitting when winning a single game gets them back in is wrong.

half of the best jobs ive had in my life were jobs i had no shot at getting when i applied. flyers went to the finals after making the 8 on the last day. montreal ecf after being an 8. carolina ecf after being a pretty awful 6 or 7. i am not surprised necessarily that so much of this forum has gone sjogren on us, but i chalk that up to so many loving the idea of firing and trading and making them pay with rejection.
The sell-off talk is crazy. In the John Druce year, when the Caps got to the Semis for the first time (89-90), they were 28-34-4 on March 2, and out of a playoff spot. They had to go 8-4-2 to make the playoffs. The Pens were ahead of the Caps that year on March 2 and collapsed, going 2-9-3. The Flyers also were ahead of them on that date, but went 4-8-2 down the stretch. It's all about getting your act together at the right time -- and since we haven't had our act together since October, we seem due here.

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02-25-2012, 08:10 AM
  #311
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much of the sell off talk comes from those that have an ax to grind with one or more the the potential victims. there is the anti-mcphee that want him fired and making the playoffs won't aid in their desire. those that are being put up to be traded are players the posters with few exceptions want off the team anyway.

the anti semin, anti wideman, anti green, anti schultz want them traded in the sell off.
not selling them leaves open the chance they might stay.

i didnt read much of the gdt, but rh must have been bouncing off the walls when schultz took the cross checking penalty. there was the great play by semin taking a hit to make a play. if this keeps up they might stay. oh the humanity

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02-25-2012, 08:22 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Ward's warming up!

I think its good to note that in previous years past playing with a ton of leads, Ovi did fine. In part because when the puck was on his stick, he wouldn't do the predictable soft chip off the board to center, facing another attack in mere seconds; he would put the puck in the net and end the game proper.

Along those same lines, I wish more players would take the "risk" of icing the puck to get a good shot at the ENG knowing we have our faceoff ace out already. I am not sold the chip is always the best play, especially when you have someone that doesn't miss the empty net.

Its one of my complaints of Dale. Even up two goals, no Ovi? The fans are paying to see him. Dale could care less.
Yep, always good to see a 3 million dollar fourth liner produce.

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02-25-2012, 09:02 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
The sell-off talk is crazy. In the John Druce year, when the Caps got to the Semis for the first time (89-90), they were 28-34-4 on March 2, and out of a playoff spot. They had to go 8-4-2 to make the playoffs. The Pens were ahead of the Caps that year on March 2 and collapsed, going 2-9-3. The Flyers also were ahead of them on that date, but went 4-8-2 down the stretch. It's all about getting your act together at the right time -- and since we haven't had our act together since October, we seem due here.
The sell-off talk is not crazy. Using the 1989-90 season as a comparison is flawed. That season the Capitals top three centers were Mike Ridley, Michal Pivonka and Dale Hunter who all played 74, 77 and 80 regular season games respectively. How many has Nick Backstrom played and what's his prognosis.

Besides we are not talking about selling off "key assets to the team". Rather we are discussing selling off pieces that in all likelihood will not return next season and who still have value to other teams now and their departure from the Capitals ranks will really not stall the Caps efforts of making the playoffs this season.

At the very least sell Hamrlik, Knuble, Wideman and Vokoun.

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02-25-2012, 09:07 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
much of the sell off talk comes from those that have an ax to grind with one or more the the potential victims. there is the anti-mcphee that want him fired and making the playoffs won't aid in their desire. those that are being put up to be traded are players the posters with few exceptions want off the team anyway.

the anti semin, anti wideman, anti green, anti schultz want them traded in the sell off.
not selling them leaves open the chance they might stay.

i didnt read much of the gdt, but rh must have been bouncing off the walls when schultz took the cross checking penalty. there was the great play by semin taking a hit to make a play. if this keeps up they might stay. oh the humanity
I knew this was going to happen. The Capitals win against the lowly Canadiens and now some are stepping back from the idea that we should not be sellers at the TDL.

Of the players you noted, who do you not see in a Capitals jersey next season. That's the person and the only person that definitely needs to be moved and their value will never be higher than it is now. Trade Dennis Wideman. Semin you retain but since the Oilers were so generous I suppose 5 million is what we tell him he will have to re up for.

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02-25-2012, 09:20 AM
  #315
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Locker was thrilled to see Sarge take the cross checking penalty last night too. JJ is doing some good work with him. I suspect scratching him for a month helped motivate him to be more aggressive. We are seeing 4 years of development done in 4 weeks. There is a story here.

Stick to the obvious - move Hammer and Knuble. And take offers on Wideman/Vokoun holding out for a cant refuse deal. keep Semin, we need his skill set. I want George to add prosepcts, not just picks. Try and get our 2nd back, otherwise, to hell with hording picks right now - we need new blood in here and soon. Picks are so risky, and we don't need them right now.


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02-25-2012, 09:22 AM
  #316
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the last several seasons the caps have traded off ultimately worthless assets for rental players. teddy ruth and a 2nd to columbus. remember that? pothier, osala and a 2nd for corvo and so on. have any of the assets mcphee has traded for his selection of rental players amounted to anything?

now, many here are lining up to trade off players for the same sort of return. the reason i push back against the sell thinking is just this. if semin, vokoun, wideman and knuble were playoff rentals likely to walk at the end of the season like cooke, corvo, and so many others did, the caps would have their services for the playoffs and their cap space when they left.

the capitals are neither short on prospects in their system and in europe, nor are draft picks and non nhl ready prospects going to be of any help next season. with kuznetsov and johansson in the top 6 forwards and green, alzner, carlson and orlov on defense and neuvirth and holtby in the net the capitals dont need to get any younger anyway if they intend to win.

so....i dont see any value in a massive sell off.

yea, if mcphee can take advantage of the market place frenzy to move a matt pettinger bad contract like hamrlik( i am fin with that). but selling for a chance to roll the dice, the caps dont need that.

rh, i probably wouldnt trade schultz either, but i am just a schill for mcphee

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02-25-2012, 09:23 AM
  #317
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It's amazing the turnaround in people's opinions seen in one game.

Whether the Caps win or not tomorrow, my stance is staying the same as it has been. Sell off, but compete. That is, make changes, but still keep an eye for the future. Make trades picking up picks/prospects as well as bringing in new players.

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02-25-2012, 09:30 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Locker was thrilled to see Sarge take the cross checking penalty last night too. JJ is doing some good work with him. I suspect scratching him for a month helped motivate him to be more aggressive. We are seeing 4 years of development done in 4 weeks.

Stick to the obvious - move Hammer and Knuble. And take offers on Wideman/Vokoun holding out for a cant refuse deal. keep Semin, we need his skill set. I want George to add prosepcts, not just picks. Try and get our 2nd back, otherwise, to hell with hording picks right now - we need new blood in here and soon. Picks are so risky, and we don't need them right now.
RH our second is now in Minnesota. It was part of the Zidlicky deal. That was the trade I would have liked to see the Caps make.

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02-25-2012, 09:32 AM
  #319
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The sell-off talk is not crazy. Using the 1989-90 season as a comparison is flawed. That season the Capitals top three centers were Mike Ridley, Michal Pivonka and Dale Hunter who all played 74, 77 and 80 regular season games respectively. How many has Nick Backstrom played and what's his prognosis.

Besides we are not talking about selling off "key assets to the team". Rather we are discussing selling off pieces that in all likelihood will not return next season and who still have value to other teams now and their departure from the Capitals ranks will really not stall the Caps efforts of making the playoffs this season.

At the very least sell Hamrlik, Knuble, Wideman and Vokoun.
I can see Hamrlik, Knuble and Schultz being on the block for a decent but unspectacular deal.

With last nights win, I do not see any of the UFA's going anywhere except for a really good deal. Trading off Wideman and Vokoun will ensure we don't make the playoffs.

txpd. I am one of the anti GMGM types. I don't want this team to fail. I want the GM to be held accountable for the team he has created. Blaming the horrible season on injuries is only partially true. It's his job to provide depth which he did not. He has also brought in 4 consecutive coaches that have 0 games at the NHL level prior to taking the job. How many free passes does he get for this? I will actually give him a pass on Hanlon as he was a decent developmental coach and that's what the team needed at the time. Cassidy was a general failure. BB was a great regular season coach but failed in the playoffs. Hunter has been average at best.

Leonsis needs to finally put his foot down and ask one simple question. Why have you not hired a playoff proven NHL coach for this team?

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02-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #320
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the last several seasons the caps have traded off ultimately worthless assets for rental players. teddy ruth and a 2nd to columbus. remember that? pothier, osala and a 2nd for corvo and so on. have any of the assets mcphee has traded for his selection of rental players amounted to anything?

now, many here are lining up to trade off players for the same sort of return. the reason i push back against the sell thinking is just this. if semin, vokoun, wideman and knuble were playoff rentals likely to walk at the end of the season like cooke, corvo, and so many others did, the caps would have their services for the playoffs and their cap space when they left.

the capitals are neither short on prospects in their system and in europe, nor are draft picks and non nhl ready prospects going to be of any help next season. with kuznetsov and johansson in the top 6 forwards and green, alzner, carlson and orlov on defense and neuvirth and holtby in the net the capitals dont need to get any younger anyway if they intend to win.

so....i dont see any value in a massive sell off.

yea, if mcphee can take advantage of the market place frenzy to move a matt pettinger bad contract like hamrlik( i am fin with that). but selling for a chance to roll the dice, the caps dont need that.

rh, i probably wouldnt trade schultz either, but i am just a schill for mcphee

Because the acquisition of the likes of Corvo, Arnott, Cooke and even Federov were the difference makers when it came to the Capitals playoff performance and success.

No one is talking about totally stripping down this team. Rather sell off the obvious.

Mike Green's return makes Dennis Wideman available

I have no problem moving forward this season with Neuvirth and Holtby and moving Vokoun

I think the last 24 hours has pretty much indicated the fate of Hamrlik and Knuble on this team

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02-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  #321
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much of the sell off talk comes from those that have an ax to grind with one or more the the potential victims. there is the anti-mcphee that want him fired and making the playoffs won't aid in their desire. those that are being put up to be traded are players the posters with few exceptions want off the team anyway.
I think thats pretty accurate

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02-25-2012, 09:46 AM
  #322
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I can see Hamrlik, Knuble and Schultz being on the block for a decent but unspectacular deal.

With last nights win, I do not see any of the UFA's going anywhere except for a really good deal. Trading off Wideman and Vokoun will ensure we don't make the playoffs.

txpd. I am one of the anti GMGM types. I don't want this team to fail. I want the GM to be held accountable for the team he has created. Blaming the horrible season on injuries is only partially true. It's his job to provide depth which he did not. He has also brought in 4 consecutive coaches that have 0 games at the NHL level prior to taking the job. How many free passes does he get for this? I will actually give him a pass on Hanlon as he was a decent developmental coach and that's what the team needed at the time. Cassidy was a general failure. BB was a great regular season coach but failed in the playoffs. Hunter has been average at best.

Leonsis needs to finally put his foot down and ask one simple question. Why have you not hired a playoff proven NHL coach for this team?
I'd be very surprised if Schultz gets traded now. He may very well be one of the success stories for JJ. His performance of late has been quite impressive and that's from somebody who wanted him out of here the day after Flash left or was that Steckel.

I don't think Wideman will be a determining factor whether this team makes the playoffs or not. His performance against the Senators this week when he went Ole on Michalek was spotlighting his warts. Vokoun could be critical to the team for the rest of the season but I still have no problems with moving him. Just looking at the schedule for the next few weeks and I think it'll be a tough climb catching the Jets for the Division lead, so position #3 will be out. The best we can hope for then is position #8. Actually I would prefer the 8 slot as that means we would be playing the Rangers. Just think we might have a chance against the Rangers. Beating the Rangers in the first round would make this season a success no matter what would happen thereafter.

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02-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Jedgi View Post
It's amazing the turnaround in people's opinions seen in one game.

Whether the Caps win or not tomorrow, my stance is staying the same as it has been. Sell off, but compete. That is, make changes, but still keep an eye for the future. Make trades picking up picks/prospects as well as bringing in new players.
sorry, my friend. i dont see a difference. if they have a reasonable shot at the playoffs, i see no point in selling. this is not a rebuild situation. loading up on picks and prospects isnt going to help this team unless you turn around and trade them for something current.

the caps already have two first round picks. if they are going to collapse and miss the playoffs easily, then sell because they have nothing to lose. if they are 1pt out of a playoff spot, selling is just a waste of time. make the playoffs if you can and try and build some confidence.

lets say the caps make the playoffs and lose in the first round. if in the process mike green has a great playoffs and finds his playoff game, its worth not getting a pick and a prospect for dennis wideman.

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02-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #324
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I'd be very surprised if Schultz gets traded now. He may very well be one of the success stories for JJ. His performance of late has been quite impressive and that's from somebody who wanted him out of here the day after Flash left or was that Steckel.

I don't think Wideman will be a determining factor whether this team makes the playoffs or not. His performance against the Senators this week when he went Ole on Michalek was spotlighting his warts. Vokoun could be critical to the team for the rest of the season but I still have no problems with moving him. Just looking at the schedule for the next few weeks and I think it'll be a tough climb catching the Jets for the Division lead, so position #3 will be out. The best we can hope for then is position #8. Actually I would prefer the 8 slot as that means we would be playing the Rangers. Just think we might have a chance against the Rangers. Beating the Rangers in the first round would make this season a success no matter what would happen thereafter.
Oh I have no doubt at all that we can still put it together and win the division. I also have no doubt that we can fall apart and get at least close to a lottery pick. I think we will make the playoffs. It may not be pretty but I think we will. My desire to see Schultz gone is more about additional cap space that he is taking up sitting in the press box. Wideman has his gaffes but he also brings desperately needed offense that Schultz does not and his salary is off the books if we choose not to sign him.

This entire organization needs a swift kick in the *** IMO.

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02-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #325
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RH our second is now in Minnesota. It was part of the Zidlicky deal. That was the trade I would have liked to see the Caps make.
To clarify, get A 2nd rounder back not ours. But I want new blood more than picks, basically a roster trade at the end of the day. That day being Monday. Selling to get value from current positions of strength, RW and D, parlayed into a 2C, if even a rental. Not sell to regroup next season.

Sarge II may have made Hammer expendable. Sarge is like a TDL add himself, a pleasant surprise. Orlov is in that mix of realizing D is now a position of strength, he can go both RD and LD. So that opens the door to move Wideman. Orlov should be getting more PP time to be ready. I think like we did Carlson last year, he is being asked to stay back, keep it simple, dont be an Orr, and don't be a minus. But we all know the kid has offense and it looks pretty polished to me.

George has many options to sell which will then open the door to buy, he and Fishman are going to be busy beavers the next few days. He will be buying at the end of the day.

I am thinking more and more Vokoun will be moved. he has sucked and we were ready to go Holtby/Neuvirth last summer as we all remember. So why not now? I dont think he has been happy at all here.

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