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5 1st round picks

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Old
02-24-2012, 06:17 AM
  #1
coolbean04
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5 1st round picks

Will we ever see a trade with a team trading 5 first round picks? The closest I can remember is when The Rangers were willing to sign Sakic as a RFA while giving up the 5 picks.

Would you want your team to trade that many picks for a certain player in the league?

We can all eliminate Stamkos from this list.


The Rangers are very close to having the talent to win the SC. They also have an influx of talent on the roster with other guys waiting as prospects. I think the Rangers are in a position to trade that many picks to try to put them over the top.

Can the Rangers trade 5 1st round picks for Ovechkin?

He can probably be a 100+ point player (50+ goals) again playing on a line with Richards and Callahan.

Obviously the Rangers would have to shed salary to fit Ovechkin's 9M cap hit. Dubinsky and Wolski both combine for 8M so the Rangers would then have to include them in another deal.

Would WSH do it?

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02-24-2012, 06:33 AM
  #2
Synergy27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Will we ever see a trade with a team trading 5 first round picks? The closest I can remember is when The Rangers were willing to sign Sakic as a RFA while giving up the 5 picks.

Would you want your team to trade that many picks for a certain player in the league?

We can all eliminate Stamkos from this list.


The Rangers are very close to having the talent to win the SC. They also have an influx of talent on the roster with other guys waiting as prospects. I think the Rangers are in a position to trade that many picks to try to put them over the top.

Can the Rangers trade 5 1st round picks for Ovechkin?

He can probably be a 100+ point player (50+ goals) again playing on a line with Richards and Callahan.

Obviously the Rangers would have to shed salary to fit Ovechkin's 9M cap hit. Dubinsky and Wolski both combine for 8M so the Rangers would then have to include them in another deal.

Would WSH do it?
The cap has essentially eliminated the possibility of a deal like this every happening. High level production on ELCs is much too valuable.

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02-24-2012, 06:38 AM
  #3
hockeyviking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Will we ever see a trade with a team trading 5 first round picks? The closest I can remember is when The Rangers were willing to sign Sakic as a RFA while giving up the 5 picks.

Would you want your team to trade that many picks for a certain player in the league?

We can all eliminate Stamkos from this list.


The Rangers are very close to having the talent to win the SC. They also have an influx of talent on the roster with other guys waiting as prospects. I think the Rangers are in a position to trade that many picks to try to put them over the top.

Can the Rangers trade 5 1st round picks for Ovechkin?

He can probably be a 100+ point player (50+ goals) again playing on a line with Richards and Callahan.

Obviously the Rangers would have to shed salary to fit Ovechkin's 9M cap hit. Dubinsky and Wolski both combine for 8M so the Rangers would then have to include them in another deal.

Would WSH do it?
If it meant malkin och ovi to Colorado yes then i would do it, Those pick would proboly be high around 24-30, if that hapend

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02-24-2012, 06:43 AM
  #4
DesertDawg
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Nope. Doesn't make any sense for a team to trade their top player for draft picks that are more than likely be after the 20th pick. Won't be replacing that player with any of those picks.

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02-24-2012, 06:43 AM
  #5
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I can't imagine any reason any team would do this. Very short sighted.

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02-24-2012, 07:19 AM
  #6
sharks9
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Originally Posted by XDC-RES View Post
I can't imagine any reason any team would do this. Very short sighted.
Exactly. You never know what could happen 5 years from now, yes the Rangers are good but what if in 4 years they fell to the bottom of the conference? Losing those 1st rounders will give them a very small prospect pool.

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02-24-2012, 08:38 AM
  #7
danfromwaterloo
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There's a level of counterintuitiveness to this question.

Any player worth 5 1st round picks would be an ultra-elite player. We're not talking 5 lottery picks; we're talking about a guarantee of 3 to be in the 15-30 range. And as said, the last two would also presumably be in the same area.

Let's call all things even, and say 5 15th overall picks is what this would turn into.

Pick your favorite 5 consecutive years:

JT Miller (15th 2011)
Derek Forbort (2010)
Peter Holland (2009)
Erik Karlsson (2008)
Alex Plante (2007)
Riku Helenius (2006)
Ryan O'Marra (2005)
Alexander Radulov (2004)
Robert Nilsson (2003)
Jesse Niinimaki (2002)

Obviously Karlsson has evolved into a remarkable talent, and Radulov is one of the better talents in the KHL, but you're looking at a return of maybe 20% at the middle of the first round.

Let's take a team like the Leafs. Let's say they trade to get Malkin for 5 1sts. I believe even the biggest Leaf haters will conclude that the Leafs make the playoffs every year for the next five years. Let's also cherry pick and say that the best five players from the list above are what you can expect to develop.

Does Malkin = Karlsson + Radulov (assuming he stays in the NHL, is a 65 pt player?) + O'Marra + Nilsson + Forbort? I think it's close. And we've been generous in assuming that these hypothetical Leafs never get past the first round during that stretch, which makes this even worse.

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02-24-2012, 08:42 AM
  #8
jdr016
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The Kessel deal is the closest you will get to something like this happening post cap!

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02-24-2012, 09:11 AM
  #9
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For a generational talent like Malkin / Crosby / Ovi (if he stops playing like a bum) I think pretty well ANY trade would be done. There are like 5 players in the NHL that I wouldn't double up (i.e. any two players on the team) to get Malkin. If you can get one of those guys for no roster spots you sign that so quickly that your pen scorches the paper.

You can easily trade for draft picks (even 1st rounders) in the future or divert to developing college/overseas talent. 1st round draft picks don't always work out either (how many 1st are on the leafs again?)

In short: unless you're the edmonton oilers or columbus right now, you'd do this in a nano-second.

Will it ever happen? doubt it - why would the team trade the best player in the league?

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02-24-2012, 09:21 AM
  #10
coolbean04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfromwaterloo View Post
There's a level of counterintuitiveness to this question.

Any player worth 5 1st round picks would be an ultra-elite player. We're not talking 5 lottery picks; we're talking about a guarantee of 3 to be in the 15-30 range. And as said, the last two would also presumably be in the same area.

Let's call all things even, and say 5 15th overall picks is what this would turn into.

Pick your favorite 5 consecutive years:

JT Miller (15th 2011)
Derek Forbort (2010)
Peter Holland (2009)
Erik Karlsson (2008)
Alex Plante (2007)
Riku Helenius (2006)
Ryan O'Marra (2005)
Alexander Radulov (2004)
Robert Nilsson (2003)
Jesse Niinimaki (2002)

Obviously Karlsson has evolved into a remarkable talent, and Radulov is one of the better talents in the KHL, but you're looking at a return of maybe 20% at the middle of the first round.

Let's take a team like the Leafs. Let's say they trade to get Malkin for 5 1sts. I believe even the biggest Leaf haters will conclude that the Leafs make the playoffs every year for the next five years. Let's also cherry pick and say that the best five players from the list above are what you can expect to develop.

Does Malkin = Karlsson + Radulov (assuming he stays in the NHL, is a 65 pt player?) + O'Marra + Nilsson + Forbort? I think it's close. And we've been generous in assuming that these hypothetical Leafs never get past the first round during that stretch, which makes this even worse.

How about we take one step further. You're just using one player at a specific draft position. If a team is making this trade, they are more likely the bottom 3rd as they're making the trade to make them a championship team.

How about look at picks 22-26. Saying on average your picking around 22nd since I think 15 is too high. Each team value players differently so I would like to lump who's available at around the 22nd pick and who they could've gotten in the players talent range.

I will also start with 2009 since any sooner is too soon to judge talent.

2009 - Picks

22nd - J. Schroeder
23rd - T. Erixon
24th - M. Johansson
25th - J. Caron
26th - Kyle Palmieri

2008 - Picks

22nd - J. Eberle
23rd - T. Cuma
24th - M. Tedenby
25th - G. Nemisz
26th - Tyler Ennis

2007 - Picks

22nd - Max Pacioretty
23rd - Jonathon Blum
24th - Mikael Backlund
25th - Patrick White
26th - David Perron

2006 - Picks

22nd - Claude Giroux
23rd - Semyon Varlamov
24th - Dennis Persson
25th - Patrik Berglund
26th - Leland Irving

2005 - Picks

22nd - Matt Lashoff
23rd - Nicklas Bergfors
24th - T.J. Oshie
25th - Andrew Cogliano
26th - Matt Pelech


This just shows that if you have a lot of trust in your farm scouting, you can make out like bandits even if you're picking in the 20's. Every year gives you the opportunity of drafting a very solid player.

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02-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #11
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Nobody put in an offer sheet on Stamkos, so nobody will trade 5 1st rounders, which is too bad.

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02-24-2012, 09:40 AM
  #12
coolbean04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furkmyster View Post
Nobody put in an offer sheet on Stamkos, so nobody will trade 5 1st rounders, which is too bad.
LOL, no one put an offer because teams know it's a waste of time. Why piss off a team when you know they will match. If TB wasn't going to match, I would bet most teams would give up 5 1st round picks for him.

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02-24-2012, 09:41 AM
  #13
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I wouldnt do it for anyone.

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02-24-2012, 09:52 AM
  #14
thadd
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When you come to realization that the best players in the world are going to have off years or even get hurt before they even hit their prime, it surely makes you scratch your head.

Imagine if Buffalo had let Edmonton poach Vannek? 5 1sts for that guy would've been beyond scary. I'm not so sure Crosby or Malkin are worth 5 1sts and the idea of paying that much for a much lesser player is beyond scary.

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02-24-2012, 09:59 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I wouldnt do it for anyone.
As i wrote before from Colorados standpoint i would do it, but thats because we have a young team, so in theory we dont need to change are old players, for ex
Centers 1-2-3 are 26-21-21 years old.
wingers similar
and the defense is pretty young to.

So For a player like malkin och ovi yes i woluld do it because i think that would take us close to a Final.

But most team arent in that position so they need those picks.

+ our scouting the last years has been werry god att picking players in the second round, ex ROR

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02-24-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
When you come to realization that the best players in the world are going to have off years or even get hurt before they even hit their prime, it surely makes you scratch your head.

Imagine if Buffalo had let Edmonton poach Vannek? 5 1sts for that guy would've been beyond scary. I'm not so sure Crosby or Malkin are worth 5 1sts and the idea of paying that much for a much lesser player is beyond scary.
The number of times the Oilers have been saved by sheer luck from Lowebellinis utter incompetence is staggering. Vanek, Heatley, Nylander...

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02-24-2012, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The number of times the Oilers have been saved by sheer luck from Lowebellinis utter incompetence is staggering. Vanek, Heatley, Nylander...
I don't know which would have been worse... signing Vanek and giving up 5 first rounders or signing Nylander for more than what he was getting from Washington.

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02-24-2012, 10:56 AM
  #18
Helton4Hall
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If you can scout and develop, those five picks are worth a fortune. If your the Blue Jackets, maybe not.

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02-24-2012, 10:59 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by jdr016 View Post
The Kessel deal is the closest you will get to something like this happening post cap!
Penner is pretty close to that too. Technically that's all Burke needed to give up but instead he upgraded the 3rd to a 1st to keep good faith between the two GMs, which paid off when Chiarelli traded buckets of talent for Kaberle.

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02-24-2012, 11:02 AM
  #20
Phion Keneuf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
How about we take one step further. You're just using one player at a specific draft position. If a team is making this trade, they are more likely the bottom 3rd as they're making the trade to make them a championship team.

How about look at picks 22-26. Saying on average your picking around 22nd since I think 15 is too high. Each team value players differently so I would like to lump who's available at around the 22nd pick and who they could've gotten in the players talent range.

I will also start with 2009 since any sooner is too soon to judge talent.

2009 - Picks

22nd - J. Schroeder
23rd - T. Erixon
24th - M. Johansson
25th - J. Caron
26th - Kyle Palmieri

2008 - Picks

22nd - J. Eberle
23rd - T. Cuma
24th - M. Tedenby
25th - G. Nemisz
26th - Tyler Ennis

2007 - Picks

22nd - Max Pacioretty
23rd - Jonathon Blum
24th - Mikael Backlund
25th - Patrick White
26th - David Perron

2006 - Picks

22nd - Claude Giroux
23rd - Semyon Varlamov
24th - Dennis Persson
25th - Patrik Berglund
26th - Leland Irving

2005 - Picks

22nd - Matt Lashoff
23rd - Nicklas Bergfors
24th - T.J. Oshie
25th - Andrew Cogliano
26th - Matt Pelech


This just shows that if you have a lot of trust in your farm scouting, you can make out like bandits even if you're picking in the 20's. Every year gives you the opportunity of drafting a very solid player.
imagine that

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02-24-2012, 11:38 AM
  #21
Zoidberg Jesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Will we ever see a trade with a team trading 5 first round picks? The closest I can remember is when The Rangers were willing to sign Sakic as a RFA while giving up the 5 picks.

Would you want your team to trade that many picks for a certain player in the league?

We can all eliminate Stamkos from this list.


The Rangers are very close to having the talent to win the SC. They also have an influx of talent on the roster with other guys waiting as prospects. I think the Rangers are in a position to trade that many picks to try to put them over the top.

Can the Rangers trade 5 1st round picks for Ovechkin?

He can probably be a 100+ point player (50+ goals) again playing on a line with Richards and Callahan.

Obviously the Rangers would have to shed salary to fit Ovechkin's 9M cap hit. Dubinsky and Wolski both combine for 8M so the Rangers would then have to include them in another deal.

Would WSH do it?
What makes you think he'd be better with Richards and Callahan than with Backstrom and whoever our 1RW is next year? The fact that the Rangers have the scoring depth to keep the opposition from totally keying in on him would help, but his linemates are better on the Caps.

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02-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #22
BeastoftheEast85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Will we ever see a trade with a team trading 5 first round picks? The closest I can remember is when The Rangers were willing to sign Sakic as a RFA while giving up the 5 picks.
Well St Louis did when they signed Scott Stevens from Washington as an RFA. Washington ended up with Brendan Witt and Segei Gonchar as the successes of those 5 draft picks. I would definitely rather have Stevens than both of those players.

For Ovechkin I think that it would be an interesting deal. Something like Dubinsky, Wolski and 4 firsts (top 10 protected). If Ovechkin can regain some form, it is extremely unlikely all of those draft picks combined could make the same impact for a Rangers team who wants to contend while Lundqvist is still is his prime. For Washington it gives them an opportunity to build a new team around Backstrom, Carlson, and Green.

Although, I really don't see Washington moving Ovechkin regardless, but if he did hit the market, I think Rangers would be at the top. (Deal might include guys like Erixon and Kreider instead of so many picks though)

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Old
02-24-2012, 11:51 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
The cap has essentially eliminated the possibility of a deal like this every happening. High level production on ELCs is much too valuable.
End of thread.

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Old
02-24-2012, 12:04 PM
  #24
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
imagine that
I can't!

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02-24-2012, 12:09 PM
  #25
bernmeister
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The other uber-elite with Stamkos, Malkin is worth 5; hard to see anyone being able to pay more than five even if it could be argued he was worth more.

Guys like Doughty worth 4 min, not sure about 4+

Taylor Hall is worth 4, IMO.
Another dozen or so are also worth 4.

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