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Esche: "They're being led by a mad man."

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Old
11-02-2004, 06:41 PM
  #1
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Esche: "They're being led by a mad man."

Now, I don't have a link for this, but CBC was interviewing players as they were leaving and Esche said, and I quote "There are good owners out there, unfortunately, they're being led by a mad man." I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this.......does it drive Gary to play replacement players? I still can't believe Esche said that.

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11-02-2004, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
Now, I don't have a link for this, but CBC was interviewing players as they were leaving and Esche said, and I quote "There are good owners out there, unfortunately, they're being led by a mad man." I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this.......does it drive Gary to play replacement players? I still can't believe Esche said that.
The word madman should only be used in this manner. "They're being led by a madman I tell you, a madman"

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11-02-2004, 07:47 PM
  #3
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The players continue to remain delusional.

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11-02-2004, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
Now, I don't have a link for this, but CBC was interviewing players as they were leaving and Esche said, and I quote "There are good owners out there, unfortunately, they're being led by a mad man." I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this.......does it drive Gary to play replacement players? I still can't believe Esche said that.
Well...he is right.

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11-03-2004, 01:31 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
Well...he is right.
Yes, he is right but the NHLPA is also being led by a madman, who will bluff his way into losing this season and probably next.

Message to Bob Goodenow: Stop squeezing the Golden Goose for one last egg. She's all out.

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11-03-2004, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
Well...he is right.
If by madman he meant 'a man who is doing what he has to do to fix the financial problems with the NHL', then yes, he'd be right.

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11-03-2004, 04:55 PM
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I think what he meant was that the owners are being led by a mad man. In other words, GB is pretty pissed that the players are allowing themselves to be deluded by Bob G. I can't say I blame him. I'd be angry too!

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11-03-2004, 05:08 PM
  #8
Dr Love
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Here is your link:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/10085194.htm

I might be the biggest Esche fan on these boards, but he needs to shut the hell up. What he said can do no good, and isn't going to get anybody anywhere.

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11-03-2004, 05:23 PM
  #9
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People's mouths haven't said this many things about the lockout since right before the World Cup ended...



....Hmmm.......

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11-03-2004, 06:21 PM
  #10
Douggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this........
The owners aren't allowed to take shots. They get fined more money than I've made in my entire life if they say anything.

Also, if owners talked smack about the players, or individual players, those players would be less likely to want to play for them in the future.

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11-03-2004, 06:41 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
The owners aren't allowed to take shots. They get fined more money than I've made in my entire life if they say anything.

Also, if owners talked smack about the players, or individual players, those players would be less likely to want to play for them in the future.
Regardless, personalizing the dispute is a disturbing tactic used by the NHLPA not only this year, but also 10 years ago when Chris Chelios essentially threatened Gary Bettman's family.
I'm no fan of Bettman and believe's he's done the league more harm than good. But what's the point of taking personal shots at him? He for the most part is doing the owner's bidding and the NHLPA's strategy of casting dispersions on him is counterproductive. My guess is it's an all-out campaign to convince the owners Bettman must go, but if anything it's more likely to strengthen their support for him and resolve for their posiiton. It's certainly going to bring about a faster resolution.

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11-03-2004, 06:49 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
Now, I don't have a link for this, but CBC was interviewing players as they were leaving and Esche said, and I quote "There are good owners out there, unfortunately, they're being led by a mad man." I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this.......does it drive Gary to play replacement players? I still can't believe Esche said that.
Is Esche the kind of guy that talks about himself using the third person?

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11-04-2004, 01:57 AM
  #13
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Esche, among others, is in a bad spot during this lockout for more reasons beyond money.

He had a very strong regular season and playoffs and 'appears' to be a solid #1 for PHI. However, it was really only one season and right now, he is not playing. No momentum to build off, keep the confidence going, and maintain his #1 spot. #1 spot is BIG money.

I believe Esche does not have a contract. If I am wrong however, don't you think after this past season he would holdout for more money. Ala Jiggy, Boucher, etc.. So, in that manner, he is not MADE. His earning power is just beginning. Therefore, w/o playing he can not tap into his earning potential.

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11-04-2004, 02:58 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
Esche, among others, is in a bad spot during this lockout for more reasons beyond money.
I think you can say this about every player, although I agree that Esche is in the same boat as Rebeiro, Dagenais and Commodore and all the Calgary Flames. Everybody is frustrated about not playing but some are more frustrated than others.

People who don't understand hockey players point to the money like financial pressure will cause them to cave. It won't. The money is nothing next to not playing. The owners aren't letting them play in the best league in the world and that's what they want to do more than anything. That's the real owner pressure point. Everybody wants to have a Stanley Cup Tournament, just to see who is best, just for the fun of it.

Tom

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11-04-2004, 10:33 AM
  #15
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I agree with Esche ... Bill Wirtz is indeed a madman.

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11-04-2004, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
If by madman he meant 'a man who is doing what he has to do to fix the financial problems with the NHL', then yes, he'd be right.
Too bad those problems only started popping up when Gary the Midget did. Expanding too fast into locations where 3/4 of the population doesn't know a hockey stick from a manure shovel killed the game of hockey as we knew it, and now he's making the players pay for the sins of himself and the owners.
I agree wholeheartedly with Esche's stance and I love the guy's heart and passion for the game showing through his comments. Everybody knows this guy is a highly competitive class act on and off the ice.
Don't get me wrong, Bob Goodenow is pretty much on the same level as Bettman, but anybody who proposes a cap at $31 million, along with non-guaranteed player contracts and saying there's no negotiation without a cap is clearly just out to destroy the sport.
If people can't see that Bettman is the cause of the problem, rather than the solution, then this lockout is headed for way more than one season off of NHL hockey.

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11-04-2004, 11:00 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside9711
Too bad those problems only started popping up when Gary the Midget did. Expanding too fast into locations where 3/4 of the population doesn't know a hockey stick from a manure shovel killed the game of hockey as we knew it, and now he's making the players pay for the sins of himself and the owners.
I agree wholeheartedly with Esche's stance and I love the guy's heart and passion for the game showing through his comments. Everybody knows this guy is a highly competitive class act on and off the ice.
Don't get me wrong, Bob Goodenow is pretty much on the same level as Bettman, but anybody who proposes a cap at $31 million, along with non-guaranteed player contracts and saying there's no negotiation without a cap is clearly just out to destroy the sport.
If people can't see that Bettman is the cause of the problem, rather than the solution, then this lockout is headed for way more than one season off of NHL hockey.
Well said. Those of you who do not understand that expansion has had a direct impact on TV ratings and contracts need to do a little research.

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11-04-2004, 11:09 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
Well said. Those of you who do not understand that expansion has had a direct impact on TV ratings and contracts need to do a little research.
Why should they.. its much easier for them to blame the players, talk gleefully about how they wish the billionaires could break the union and salavate about how they wish they could pay a lot of money to watch Rodney Dumbass skate on the top line with Kevin Notalent and Mike Commodore.

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11-04-2004, 11:29 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
Now, I don't have a link for this, but CBC was interviewing players as they were leaving and Esche said, and I quote "There are good owners out there, unfortunately, they're being led by a mad man." I don't see owners or Bettman taking such ridiculous shots like this.......does it drive Gary to play replacement players? I still can't believe Esche said that.
Boy. What a bunch of reactionaries.
My take: If that's what he means, then that is what he should say. I'd rather hear what parties are thinking, you know? It gives me some idea where this is headed. Unlike the owners, who've taken a fascist stance on the lockout.
If you ask me, Bettman is a little on the mad side.
He overexpanded. He allowed teams to spend one-time revenue on player salaries. He passed the last CBA over without addressing the cost situation whatsover.
And then he comes to this year with completely UNREASONABLE demands, knowing full well that the players would never 1) accept a cap, and 2) accept a cap that cuts salaries by 33 percent.

It's outrageous. It's downright loony. Yes, it's mad. Simply mad.

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11-04-2004, 11:30 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside9711
If people can't see that Bettman is the cause of the problem, rather than the solution, then this lockout is headed for way more than one season off of NHL hockey.
No kidding. I thought the most insulting - and perhaps the most accurate - thing Esche said was hardly reported. "I don't even think he is a hockey fan."

How many good things has Bettman done? How many bad? Is the game better off for his tenure as commissioner? If he has been bad for the game, what gives anyone confidence he knows what he is doing now? It is hard to find a single positive thing to say about Bettman. I don't think he is a hockey fan either. He's a money fan. "Gimme an M..."

How anyone can believe he's got the right answer now is beyond me.

Tom

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11-04-2004, 11:35 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
No kidding. I thought the most insulting - and perhaps the most accurate - thing Esche said was hardly reported. "I don't even think he is a hockey fan."

How many good things has Bettman done? How many bad? Is the game better off for his tenure as commissioner? If he has been bad for the game, what gives anyone confidence he knows what he is doing now? It is hard to find a single positive thing to say about Bettman. I don't think he is a hockey fan either. He's a money fan. "Gimme an M..."

How anyone can believe he's got the right answer now is beyond me.

Tom
And yet, people who share our thinking seem to be in the minority while everybody else blames the players/agents/union/etc...

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11-04-2004, 11:47 AM
  #22
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I really dont think that Bettman cares much about the game either. He just wants to show everybody that he can win this war with the players. He will never admit all the harm that he did to the game and neither will the owners.

I still can't believe how ignorant the general public is acting and how most people are showing more sympathy to billionaire businessman than to millionare players who inspire the magical moments that hockey has brought to all us fans.

Its sad and frustrating and i cant handle mcuh more of it.

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11-04-2004, 12:02 PM
  #23
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It kills me when people talk about Gary Bettman and list all the things he's done wrong, then choose to IGNORE the fact that he's ACTUALLY TRYING TO FIX many of the problems that have surfaced over his tenure. It's not ALL on Bettman but yeah, he has made a lot of mistakes as the commish. No question about it. He hasn't been helped by some of his owner buddies, either.

However, what has Bob Goodenow done for the NHL? No, not what he's done for the PA, because we all know what he's done for the PA, but what has he done for the "NHL" portion of his title of NHLPA head??? Anyone?

As far as I'm concerned, Goodenow is the anti-Alan Eagleson...both were bad, just from the opposite point of view.

And Tom Benjamin, when you say that the players want to play "more than anything" that's a boatload of krap. They obviously don't want to play more than accepting a "salary cap", you know those two evil words that Goodenow and co. have effectively used to brainwash the nest.

Goodenow is Jim Jones, and the "salary cap" is the kool-aid.

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11-04-2004, 12:15 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
It kills me when people talk about Gary Bettman and list all the things he's done wrong, then choose to IGNORE the fact that he's ACTUALLY TRYING TO FIX many of the problems that have surfaced over his tenure. It's not ALL on Bettman but yeah, he has made a lot of mistakes as the commish. No question about it. He hasn't been helped by some of his owner buddies, either.

However, what has Bob Goodenow done for the NHL? No, not what he's done for the PA, because we all know what he's done for the PA, but what has he done for the "NHL" portion of his title of NHLPA head??? Anyone?

As far as I'm concerned, Goodenow is the anti-Alan Eagleson...both were bad, just from the opposite point of view.

And Tom Benjamin, when you say that the players want to play "more than anything" that's a boatload of krap. They obviously don't want to play more than accepting a "salary cap", you know those two evil words that Goodenow and co. have effectively used to brainwash the nest.

Goodenow is Jim Jones, and the "salary cap" is the kool-aid.
Bettman is not trying to fix anything. Two of the top sports economists in the world think that a salary cap is the doom of the NHL not the salvation, I suggest you read articles from Reis or Zimbalist before you swallow the NHL propoganda hook line and sinker. Both Zimbalist and Reis agree the only salvation for the NHL is revenue sharing and a strict audit process. Oh both Reis and Zimbalist agree on one other thing, the NHL is not in the trouble it says it is in, based on publically filed SCC reports.

For those of you that seem to think all the corruption among owners magically disappeared with Eagleson I suggest you do your research. The NHL has had 3 owners in the last 10 years go to jail for fraud and currently Sanjay Kumar one of the owners of the Islanders is on trail for fraud, guess what for, shaddy accounting practices at CA. I guess he took a few to many things away from the URO process.

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11-04-2004, 12:21 PM
  #25
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Does anyone have a solid list of Bettman's job responsibilities and the things he's done as commissioner? Not the things the Board of Governors has done, just the things Bettman has done. I've never seen one. Seems that whenever people say Bettman's done terrible things they list a handful of items that someone else comes along and says Bettman isn't actually responsible for. I'd like to see the definitive list. I always thought the commissioner position was more of a business/marketing position for the league rather than a 'mess about with the game' position, but I could surely be wrong.

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