1st get a clue, no one is actually saying the Flames have better prospects. We are just saying you are overstating your situation.
2nd, if you believe what Tambellini said about the free agents you are drinking waaaaaaaayy too much of his kool-aid. the mass exodus started before they reached their finals with Pronger and Peca requesting trades. When players start requesting trades and the chairman of the board does an interview airing a players dirty laundry its practically begging players to stay away.
The only "big" free agents they have gotten since before Pronger asked to be dealt were Souray and Khabibulin, both of whom were given horrible contracts (I often wonder if Horcoff got such a massive deal because he didn't really want to stay in Edmonton either).
I think its pretty obvious to everyone that the reason for the exodus and the reason for players not wanting to sign there is alot more than the fact they had sucked for a couple years.
I guess time will prove one of us correct. Until then I'll not only enjoy the young ***** the Oilers have been drafting but I'll also enjoy you guy picking 14th every year. Get some good scouts.
I guess time will prove one of us correct. Until then I'll not only enjoy the young ***** the Oilers have been drafting but I'll also enjoy you guy picking 14th every year. Get some good scouts.
Dude, it's not the players that are *****.
As for scouting - that's the thing. Drafting and trading away picks is/are/have been the source of the Flames' current problems.
The organization is clearly aware of this and is attempting to rectify it. The drafting over the past two years has been fantastic but that is a small sample size.
If they can keep drafting well, a rebuild shouldn't be necessary. But time will tell.
I guess time will prove one of us correct. Until then I'll not only enjoy the young ***** the Oilers have been drafting but I'll also enjoy you guy picking 14th every year. Get some good scouts.
I love Oiler fans who don't know what they are talking about and they get angry and start throwing out insults towards the team.
Just to inform you:
The Flames have completely revamped their scouting department. not only have they changed a bunch of scouts, just last summer they added 5 new scouts as well as an AGM with a very rich scouting background for them to answer to. Before that the Flames were slowly adding scouts and changing their drafting method. In fact if you actually paid attention the Flames draft picks this year (and even the 2 or 3 prior) have actually been pretty good.
What does our 2011 draft class include? A 2.0 point per game player in the WHL that scored 3 goals in his first 3 NHL games. A young Finnish forward that has impressed a ton of people by people up incredible numbers as a Finnish League rookie. A steady stay at home defenseman that that finished tied for 2nd among defensemen on one of the strongest teams in the CHL. A college Freshman that finished with 44 points in 44 games and was very instrumental in his team winning the NCAA championship. And a goaltender that is 8-0 in the WHL playoffs and in the top 2 in every goaltending category
Then in the draft prior we only drafted a WHL playoff MVP, a big stay at home defenseman that puts up decent points, a former captain of the US under 20 team, the #1 defensive center on the NCAA champions, a 5th round pick that only scored 47 goals and 96 points in the WHL this year, a 7th round pick (that was traded) that put up 109 points in the WHL this year.
You can trash us all you want, but if the team continues to draft the way they did in 2010 & 2011 they are going to find some gems in the next couple years if they haven't already.
And I never said anything about "*****", nor did I say anything about the Oilers future other than hinting that I don't think signing UFAs will get easier for them and that I think many fans overstate the future for that reason. SO you should get your facts straight before you get all pissy and start mouthing off
no one is arguing that the Flames have more prospects than the Oilers - of course the Oilers have more, it comes with sucking.
However, what the Oilers don't yet have is a plan to get them from 'a bunch of young talented players' to 'a team that can win'
More importantly for the long term however, is the fact that the Oilers have purposely allowed themselves to wallow at the bottom of the standings in order to acquire said prospects. In other words, they have slutted their way to a better team. And even if they do become successful, they will now always be *****.
Well in all fairness in the prior two seasons the Oilers were decimated by injuries also, something that some Flames fans like to say is a reason for the Flames missing this years playoffs
That's the whole point of the suckage. Tambo himself said in a presser after the oiler won the lottery that he knows that the a list free agents have not wanted to sign in Edmonton hence the scorched earth rebiuld. They don't want to come because they haven't been competitive not because they don't like the city. Management new they had to get there a list talent through the draft and tha is what they have done. I just don't get the hate the Oilers are getting for the path they have chosen to build a cup contending team. If you guys in Calgary think you can do it another way so be it. Oilers fans have supported the team through the rebuild and in the coming few year were going to reap the rewards of our patience. If your hate for the Oilers and/or Edmonton is so strong that you fail to see that the Oilers are doing whats going to work for the Oilers then you better find a rock to hide under for the next ten years cause the new Oilers are coming fast and the old Flames are just that, old!
The Flames future is NOT brighter than the Oilers.
Maybe we need to start a "Flames Future Is Brighter Than Oilers" thread on the Oilers board
The big surprise, though, was RNH. Nobody could have predicted that he was going to do what he did - I was way off on that one.
By the way... it wasn't Eberle's rookie season and he led the team in scoring the prior year as well (no longer sure what kind of an Oiler fan you are).
When I mention Eberle's rookie season why would you automatically assume 2011-12? I believe we both know he just finished his 2nd season in the league, please give people the benefit of the doubt when they post when it's clearly obvious what they're talking about. (No longer sure how much intelligence you have)
1) drinking the kool-aid... Tambo has done NOTHING so far. Anyone can draft 1st overall - try acquiring some supporting cast and leadership
2) excuses - the Flames led the league in man games lost at just under 400. So what? Every team has injuries. The Oilers have no deppth, no leadership, no goaltending, and a weak defense. What has Tambo done about any of those things?
Answer: stay at the bottom of the league and keep drafting
You obviously didn't read the rest of the post then. Fans of other teams love to talk smack about how we have no depth. When we reply that Oiler management was evaluating their prospects through call ups.........there's no response besides the Oilers have no depth, leadership, goaltending or defence. Tambellini made 3 different UFA signings to address grit, faceoffs and bottom 6 depth. He signed Barker to address top 4 depth. They blew up in his face the way Bouwmeester has blown up in Darryl Sutter's face.......does that mean Sutter never tried to sign a franchise Dman?
When I mention Eberle's rookie season why would you automatically assume 2011-12? I believe we both know he just finished his 2nd season in the league, please give people the benefit of the doubt when they post when it's clearly obvious what they're talking about. (No longer sure how much intelligence you have)
Dude,
check out your post #235. You started the conversation about Eberle with respect to this year and that is what I responded to.
And you want to make a comment about my intelligence?
You obviously didn't read the rest of the post then. Fans of other teams love to talk smack about how we have no depth. When we reply that Oiler management was evaluating their prospects through call ups.........there's no response besides the Oilers have no depth, leadership, goaltending or defence. Tambellini made 3 different UFA signings to address grit, faceoffs and bottom 6 depth. He signed Barker to address top 4 depth. They blew up in his face the way Bouwmeester has blown up in Darryl Sutter's face.......does that mean Sutter never tried to sign a franchise Dman?
You're claiming that signing Cam Barker Eager and Bellanger was an answer to the Oilers' depth problems? And you can't see from that why people argue that Tambo has done nothing?
I am done with this conversation... good luck with your team.
check out your post #235. You started the conversation about Eberle with respect to this year and that is what I responded to.
And you want to make a comment about my intelligence?
yeah I am. here's post #235 below. Replying to my post you spoke about this season only ignoring my point about Hemsky being the guy in Edmonton prior to this season. If you actually read what I wrote, I say that prior to this season Hemsky was expected to lead the Oilers in scoring. Nobody expected Hall or Eberle to outscore Hemsky prior to them ever lacing up the skates at the NHL level. Once again the post is below, so please do READ IT and don't attach meanings to my posts that aren't there.
The original discussion I was having with another Flames fan was comparing Hemsky to Cammalleri and I talked about how we can easily manipulate stats one way or another to support our arguments. I then added that Cammalleri never had to be the go to guy in Calgary because Iginla's the guy. In Edmonton, we haven't had a superstar since Pronger, so Hemsky was the go to guy. You then piped up about how Hemsky isn't the guy now.........again ignoring the main point of the whole discussion I was having with someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Unit
Are you saying that before the beginning of this season there was an expectation that someone else would lead the team in scoring? No such expectations were heaped upon Hall and Eberle in their rookie seasons and nobody expected RNH to be as good as he is. That's how Hemsky was the guy in Edmonton till 2011-12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles
Well, I can only speak for myself here but I certainly didn't think he would lead the team in scoring - I predicted Eberle, and pegged Hemsky at about 50 pts.
Maybe your expectations of him are too high (which would explain the last two pages of theis thread)
You're claiming that signing Cam Barker Eager and Bellanger was an answer to the Oilers' depth problems? And you can't see from that why people argue that Tambo has done nothing?
I am done with this conversation... good luck with your team.
Belanger was a regular 40 pt player, was Tambellini supposed to know that he'd play like ****?
I tell you the Oilers were evaluating their prospects but you ignore it. I tell you the UFA signings for depth players blew up in Tambellini's face but that means I'm claiming they're the answer to the Oilers depth problems. How bad is your reading comprehension? Like seriously buddy get a ****ing clue.
Tambellini tried but he failed and that's partly why the team ended up 29th. He traded for Schultz and most Oilers fans agree that was a great trade for our team.......but yeah he just sat around and made 0 roster changes from last year.
Belanger was a regular 40 pt player, was Tambellini supposed to know that he'd play like ****?
I tell you the Oilers were evaluating their prospects but you ignore it. I tell you the UFA signings for depth players blew up in Tambellini's face but that means I'm claiming they're the answer to the Oilers depth problems. How bad is your reading comprehension? Like seriously buddy get a ****ing clue.
Tambellini tried but he failed and that's partly why the team ended up 29th. He traded for Schultz and most Oilers fans agree that was a great trade for our team.......but yeah he just sat around and made 0 roster changes from last year.
The problem here isn't my reading comprehension, it's that you think, because you've commented on something (for example: the Oilers were evaluating their prospects) that you have definitively answered the issue.
My ignoring your comment simply meant that I didn't agree with it but arguing further would be pointless.
Look at your grammar: "I tell you" like it's a fact. Those aren't facts, they're opinions. Yes he signed those three guys but many people are of the opinion that that was NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH to address their depth issues. However, you seem to think that since you 'tell me' it is, it must be.
yeah I am. here's post #235 below. Replying to my post you spoke about this season only ignoring my point about Hemsky being the guy in Edmonton prior to this season. If you actually read what I wrote, I say that prior to this season Hemsky was expected to lead the Oilers in scoring. Nobody expected Hall or Eberle to outscore Hemsky prior to them ever lacing up the skates at the NHL level. Once again the post is below, so please do READ IT and don't attach meanings to my posts that aren't there.
The original discussion I was having with another Flames fan was comparing Hemsky to Cammalleri and I talked about how we can easily manipulate stats one way or another to support our arguments. I then added that Cammalleri never had to be the go to guy in Calgary because Iginla's the guy. In Edmonton, we haven't had a superstar since Pronger, so Hemsky was the go to guy. You then piped up about how Hemsky isn't the guy now.........again ignoring the main point of the whole discussion I was having with someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Unit
Are you saying that before the beginning of this season there was an expectation that someone else would lead the team in scoring? No such expectations were heaped upon Hall and Eberle in their rookie seasons and nobody expected RNH to be as good as he is. That's how Hemsky was the guy in Edmonton till 2011-12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles
Well, I can only speak for myself here but I certainly didn't think he would lead the team in scoring - I predicted Eberle, and pegged Hemsky at about 50 pts.
Maybe your expectations of him are too high (which would explain the last two pages of theis thread)
read post #235 a couple more times. When you see that there is another way to interpret it other than what you intended, let me know
Until then, just keep coming with the personal attacks because that will definitely strengthen your argument
The problem here isn't my reading comprehension, it's that you think, because you've commented on something (for example: the Oilers were evaluating their prospects) that you have definitively answered the issue.
My ignoring your comment simply meant that I didn't agree with it but arguing further would be pointless.
Look at your grammar: "I tell you" like it's a fact. Those aren't facts, they're opinions. Yes he signed those three guys but many people are of the opinion that that was NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH to address their depth issues. However, you seem to think that since you 'tell me' it is, it must be.
Ok then
The bolded above is the first time you've actually addressed any of my points instead of ignoring it. In order to debate someone you address what they're saying and come up with a counter point, ignoring it because you disagree is not debating. When I wrote "I tell you" it's not trying to pass it off like a fact, rather, I'm looking for a counterpoint which has not been offered. All you've done is restate your opinion that the Oilers didn't do enough. You offer no solutions whatsoever besides "they could have signed more guys or made trades". Do you know definitively it was Oilers policy to sit on their hands? What if the offers that were on the table weren't worth it? Do the Oilers have to have a press conference like Burke about every deal they turned down? Most Oilers fans, and it appears management, don't want to follow the Burke model of rebuilding.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or stating your opinion that what Tambellini did wasn't enough but I do think armchair GM's love using hindsight as though Tambellini was supposed to know last September that his signings wouldn't pan out. Or that Sutter was supposed to know signing Bouwmeester wouldn't lead to a cup......or even a playoff spot.
We're both making assumptions anyway so at least try and make yours plausible. In your scenario the Oilers management are sitting around and plotting to suck on purpose to the point that they're turning down trades that upgrade their team and refusing to contact Free Agents so they can get another 1st overall pick. In my scenario they're accepting their depth signings failed, they don't like whatever deals are on the table because they aren't getting enough return for their assets, and they want to assess what they have on the farm team so they're not going to make a midseason signing. Which one sounds more realistic?
Last edited by The Big Unit: 04-14-2012 at 10:57 AM.
Tambellini said there’s still no plan of going after what he terms “the A+” free agent on July 1.
“We still have to do a terrific job developing this core team first, so that they want to come. Not only that they want to come, but we want them to come at the right time. So the direction has not changed.
“We just feel we have the option of adding an extra piece and accomplishing what we want to do, out of the draft.”
Right out of the GM's mouth what the team's plan is. Oilers are not pursuing high end free agents but want to focus on development and drafting so when they're ready to contend, high end free agents choose Edmonton as a destination. Looking for shortcuts will likely lead to mediocrity.
Tambellini said there’s still no plan of going after what he terms “the A+” free agent on July 1.
“We still have to do a terrific job developing this core team first, so that they want to come. Not only that they want to come, but we want them to come at the right time. So the direction has not changed.
“We just feel we have the option of adding an extra piece and accomplishing what we want to do, out of the draft.”
Right out of the GM's mouth what the team's plan is. Oilers are not pursuing high end free agents but want to focus on development and drafting so when they're ready to contend, high end free agents choose Edmonton as a destination. Looking for shortcuts will likely lead to mediocrity.
And to me that says that there is still no apetite or ability to take some bold steps and actually try and improve the team.
Frankly I find it amazing that you and other Oiler fans lap that up and accept his plan of sitting on his hands and losing for years (yes, that is what it means to lose on purpose) until the draft GIVES him what it is supposed to be his job to be creating and building. But good on ya for the support.
Enjoy. Due to the nature of the draft, if you keep losing long enough, it will eventually and inevitably lead to some success.
Last edited by OrrwastheBeatles: 04-14-2012 at 03:53 PM.
And to me that says that there is still no apetite or ability to take some bold steps and actually try and improve the team.
Frankly I find it amazing that you and other Oiler fans lap that up and accept his plan of sitting on his hands and losing for years (yes, that is what it means to lose on purpose) until the draft GIVES him what it is supposed to be his job to be creating and building.
Enjoy. Due to the nature of the draft, if you keep losing long enough, it will eventually and inevitably lead to some success.
I think we can both agree that winning the Stanley Cup is the goal. Many Oilers fans (not all of course) and it appears our management and owner, feel that this route will lead to long term success not short term mediocrity with the odd playoff spot.
We've tried trying to reel in the big fish unsuccessfully for years. We've come to accept it's not happening here unless we have a team worth joining. I'm not surprised, nor do I blame, Heatley, Hossa, Jagr, Nylander etc. for refusing to join an Oilers team that was going to fight for 8th at best and probably miss. These guys want to win a cup and it probably wasn't going to happen here. By accepting that high end UFAs or players with NTC/NMC's aren't coming, what means do the Oilers have at their disposal to improve or become elite?
I'd be much more accepting of your opinion and many others who feel the way you do, if the Oilers had a proper AHL team or development system prior to owning the OKC Barons or if there was a history of success in the draft. The Oilers had neither. In order to compete for a cup you need elite talent and there is no other way for the Oilers to get it.
The funniest part about the whole Oilers rebuild is that they didn't even plan on it, they failed their way into it. After the 2008-09 season the Oilers fired MacTavish for failing to qualify for the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive year. They hired what was a power duo of Quinn and Renney (not to lose but to make the playoffs) and were praised for doing so by the talking heads. They signed Khabibulin who had just come off an amazing playoff run with the Blackhawks and made a serious but unsuccessful push for Heatley. What followed was the worst season in franchise history with essentially the same team that fell just short of the playoffs when MacT was in charge. It's pretty clear today that the Oilers were overachieving with MacT behind the bench.......how sad is that?
This was a team that tried competing seriously and kept getting slapped in the face. After securing the 1st overall pick........it became apparent that rebuilding the big club through drafting and developing the farm team was their best option to become elite.
If you want to boil that down to "lose your way to a cup", fine, that's your prerogative. Such a strategy fails bigtime if there's no real program to take 2nd, 3rd and later round picks and turn them into NHLers. This is why Columbus, NYI, Florida, Atlanta and others sucked for years, their development system isn't strong. So far the Oilers development program implemented in the WHL with the Oil Kings and the AHL with the Barons has worked very well. It was always expected that the wins and success would come last with the Oilers and that success at the NHL level would become sustained over a decade. If the rebuild ultimately leads to more high draft picks because the Oilers keep spinning their wheels then the naysayers can have a huge laugh at Edmonton's expense. But what if it works?
I saw this as the last thread in Northwest divisions and wanted to see what Avs fans were saying about their team. At first I was disappointed but now I'm entertained.
The Flames could end up better than the Oilers in the future if they make the right moves with Iggy and Kipper, but it looks like that's not going to happen.
I saw this as the last thread in Northwest divisions and wanted to see what Avs fans were saying about their team. At first I was disappointed but now I'm entertained.
The Flames could end up better than the Oilers in the future if they make the right moves with Iggy and Kipper, but it looks like that's not going to happen.
or Edmonton makes the wrong moves and with Lowe and Tambo running your team it is entirely possible.
There is something Oiler fans have to accept about the future. It hasn't happened yet and anything can happen. A good or a bad trade can change the future of a team. A late round gem can turn things around, a contract dispute could cost you a top young player. A player could get hurt, or simply not develop. Lots of possibilities and none of us know how they will play out.
It could be good and it could be bad, but in the end potential is just potential until it has been reached.
sports is a cycle! down years followed by up years. This is going to be more prevalent in a cap system! the way to minimize the down years is to make proper trades when an aging core i.e. CGY has seen there best before date. Feaster or CGY owners have already missed the boat on this, a year to late to maximize return in the case of iggy. My OIL on the other hand are starting the upswing well they be a success? In oil country we base that on cups so well see but yah oil future is better ATM but smart trading/drafting could minimize CGY's down years
Flames - Oilers both out of the play offs last 3 years. Oilers drafting and fans watching exciting young talent on the way up . Flames drafting young "maybe" Nhl'ers (sven an exception ) and fans watching old declining stars on their way down. next year much of the same with Oilers in play offs years before Flames. Sad time to be a Flames fan. How come the company B***h King wasn't the one apologizing he was the one who kept Darryl way past his best before date . Feasters mandate keep the core add UFA's fight for 8th. Last time this team was this bad they called them the young guns this time its the old gums .
There is no doubt Edm right now looks to have a team that will be better based on losing their way to top picks.
3 year's of last place has to be a sight for soar eye's though so there is a price to pay. They are lucky they got the 1st overall pick the last 3 years and didn't end up 3rd or 4the last like the Islander's.
I will be watching both calgary and edm on sportsnet this year though. lol.
Edmonton has a way of shooting themselves in the foot though so I wouldn't say their future is set yet. Knowing their managment they will trade Yakupov for Subban and not go out and get an actual goalie and end up being just like the Lightning.
And to me that says that there is still no apetite or ability to take some bold steps and actually try and improve the team.
Frankly I find it amazing that you and other Oiler fans lap that up and accept his plan of sitting on his hands and losing for years (yes, that is what it means to lose on purpose) until the draft GIVES him what it is supposed to be his job to be creating and building. But good on ya for the support.
Enjoy. Due to the nature of the draft, if you keep losing long enough, it will eventually and inevitably lead to some success.
And what pray tell are the BOLD moves the Flames are making? Even Lanny Macdonald says that the Flames need to be dismantled and Kiprusoff was masking the problems of the team.
Feaster obviously doesn't have much of a plan. And please don't give me the argument that he has only been GM for just over a year. If he wanted to make some BOLD moves he could have and should have traded Iggy and Kipprusoff at the trade deadline, he will still get good value trading them but not as much now as he would have at the trade deadline when GM's will over pay a bit.
In order to debate someone you address what they're saying and come up with a counter point, ignoring it because you disagree is not debating. When I wrote "I tell you" it's not trying to pass it off like a fact, rather, I'm looking for a counterpoint which has not been offered. All you've done is restate your opinion that the Oilers didn't do enough. You offer no solutions whatsoever besides "they could have signed more guys or made trades". Do you know definitively it was Oilers policy to sit on their hands? What if the offers that were on the table weren't worth it? Do the Oilers have to have a press conference like Burke about every deal they turned down? Most Oilers fans, and it appears management, don't want to follow the Burke model of rebuilding.
