If we get, say, Rick Nash, he isn't going to be gone after this season you know. Not only could he help us get into the playoffs this year, but for the next 10 to come.
That's thinking way too big picture here - scale it down before you decide to take a dip in the irrational.
I said this on Thursday but I believe that we get Geztlaf .....
Also the only way that we should even move Schenn is if we get a Geztlaf type player.
I love how people feel that he is horrible etc, but in reality he is nothing but a high end stud shut down D man suffering under one of the worse coaches to ever coach with his D zone coverage system of a passive box plus one with little pressure, yet Schenn is our best plus minus D man....but he is taking so much heat for his poor play.
This board if he is traded will see it filled with yeah but we traded Schenn for type posts....and if it is not for some stud the posts will all be negative.
Is untouchable in my eyes....no never no one is....but he is real close.
This is just slander. You don't have any semblance of an idea of what their relationship is. This team is barely able to contend for a playoff spot, was seeded 8-10th in the east at the start of season - they are achieving as such and somehow Wilson's a poor coach for it. Your desire for vindication at the last 6 (to 35) years' mediocrity has transformed your opinion into that of a jaded, irrationally emotional and short-sighted fan.
This whole "Wilson "he sucks at coaching because we get lots of goals scored on us" is just so incredibly weak. It fails to account for anything other than we get x amount scored on us so Wilson = bad, Burke = bad.
It just does not work like that.
Burke has overhauled the entire roster since he came on board. Wilson has been the coach for Burke's entire tenure. In that time, the Leafs have been abysmal--no playoffs, high draft picks every year (usually made by the Bruins), woeful special teams, huge goaltending question marks...
Somebody's gotta be responsible? Is it Burke for assembling a dud of a team? Or is it Wilson for failing to get anything out of the players Burke's given him? It has to be one or the other, doesn't it?
I said this on Thursday but I believe that we get Geztlaf .....
Also the only way that we should even move Schenn is if we get a Geztlaf type player.
I love how people feel that he is horrible etc, but in reality he is nothing but a high end stud shut down D man suffering under one of the worse coaches to ever coach with his D zone coverage system of a passive box plus one with little pressure, yet Schenn is our best plus minus D man....but he is taking so much heat for his poor play.
This board if he is traded will see it filled with yeah but we traded Schenn for type posts....and if it is not for some stud the posts will all be negative.
Is untouchable in my eyes....no never no one is....but he is real close.
Agree with your value of Schenn, disagree with your opinion on Wilson.
FWIW - Schenn is leading the team this year with +8, so something has to be going right.
If Kadri is being sent down for not playing well, isn't that accountability?
You mean a top 6 player, who is physically incapable of playing a grind, shut down game being put up against bigger players playing a grind shut down game? And he's not playing well because? I'll give you a hint: he wasn't on the right lines. You have kulemin who is sucking something fierce, who is 60 lbs heavier than Kadri who appears to be entirely fixated on the 2nd line
It's the worst assumption in hockey, that playing the third or fourth line somehow makes it easier to score- its not. This isn't a pee-wee league. The people that comprise most 3rd lines are bigger, stronger, and far more defensively reliable than the top 6. These guys, unless on the Toronto maple leafs, are fighting for their jobs.
Accountability? Bleh. It's not accountability when for the entire time Kadri was playing this year, even in the midst of the 2nd line performing terrible and Connolly/Bozak stinking it up, Kadri was not ONCE played on the first or second line. Last year he was pivot for a few games on the first line and he was the best player on the ice, only to be demoted because "hey that guy is paid more and has been here longer"
But keep making excuses for the worst coach in NHL history, that'll get your argument somewhere. Wake me up when there is a shred of accountability- I will go hibernate now...
Grabs will be dealt. Now with Hemsky off the table someone will give him a late first and mid range prospect for him. In my dream world this would allow Burke to package up our first in a deal for Nash, and still leave him with a first at the draft this year.
Or send both firsts to Nashville and lessen the prospect list headed over.
I don't think one Euro has been resigned since Burke took over (Kulemin maybe??)
that certainly doesn't work in Grabo's favour.
Interesting couple days.
Monday is my annual Trade Deadline Holiday, hope it isn't as lame as last years was!
You're definitely right that no European players have resigned while with the Leafs, but I think you meant re-signed
Burke isn't as anti-Euro as people make him out to be. Since he's been here he's signed (either FA or ELC): Gunnarsson, Gustavsson, Rynnas, Holzer, Mikus, Mueller, Wallin and Owuya. The Leafs have drafted: Granberg, Brodin, Olden and Nilsson. He's re-signed: Grabovski, Kulemin, Gustavsson and Gunnarsson and has acquired Sjostrom via trade. He's also created NHL or AHL partnerships with one or two German teams and a Dutch team.
I don't know why people think he's against Europeans. He'll pick the best player available and is willing to sign anyone who he thinks can help this team, regardless where they're from.
I'm still thinking Nik Khabibulin for Keith Aulie, Brit Selby and a fourth round draft choice.
a 22 year old potential shut down dman who has already played at the nhl level plus another prospect and pick for a 40 year old goalie, so the leafs can just make the playoffs one year?
Burke has overhauled the entire roster since he came on board. Wilson has been the coach for Burke's entire tenure. In that time, the Leafs have been abysmal--no playoffs, high draft picks every year (usually made by the Bruins), woeful special teams, huge goaltending question marks...
Somebody's gotta be responsible? Is it Burke for assembling a dud of a team? Or is it Wilson for failing to get anything out of the players Burke's given him? It has to be one or the other, doesn't it?
We had no one dude! Why do you expect we'll acquire star-calibre players with the "abysmal" team that we had just 3 years ago? The "overhaul" is limited to what we started with - which was NOTHING. So we started with an abysmal nothing and turned that at least into a playoff contender so far, along with a ton of good prospects in the system. Now what more do you expect this year?!
Responsible for what exactly?! This is GOOD, not BAD. We turned our craptastic crap into something playoff contending. You all expect a cup contender within 3 years ... its laughable!!
I hope that Burke picks up a goaltender and nothing else. We have to let these kids grow and be patient with them. We are exactly where we are suppose to be, battling for a playoff spot.
Grabs will be dealt. Now with Hemsky off the table someone will give him a late first and mid range prospect for him. In my dream world this would allow Burke to package up our first in a deal for Nash, and still leave him with a first at the draft this year.
Or send both firsts to Nashville and lessen the prospect list headed over.
I don't think one Euro has been resigned since Burke took over (Kulemin maybe??)
that certainly doesn't work in Grabo's favour.
Interesting couple days.
Monday is my annual Trade Deadline Holiday, hope it isn't as lame as last years was!
The Leafs strength lies in their defensive depth (not how they are employed mind you) but Burke extended 31 year old Liles for 4 years 3.875.
You would think extending Grabovski, 3 years younger and in a position where there is a shortage of available talent at 4 years for 5 million would be an easy decision unless Burke has something else in his pocket.
Re-signing Liles makes sense if you are moving Gunnarsson, and think Gardiner can effortlessly move into the top pairing. Liles is at best a 2nd. pairing defender who you try and keep away from the heavy lifting.
Grabovski is probably their best centerman, so if you aren't willing to sign him there better be something besides a dream of a centerman somewhere in tow.
However, if you are going to move him do it now to get the best asset for him not at the draft when he'll land next to nothing.
If grabovski wont or cant be signed he has to be moved. Period!
Our problem is wehave great youth on our team and in the minors BUT
If you read the statements from the 61-64 cup winning team they all say the same thing. That team did not have a high end player they had a very good TEAM with a good blend of youth and veterens.
Toronto needs a couple of veterens who know how to win
I said this on Thursday but I believe that we get Geztlaf .....
Also the only way that we should even move Schenn is if we get a Geztlaf type player.
I love how people feel that he is horrible etc, but in reality he is nothing but a high end stud shut down D man suffering under one of the worse coaches to ever coach with his D zone coverage system of a passive box plus one with little pressure, yet Schenn is our best plus minus D man....but he is taking so much heat for his poor play.
This board if he is traded will see it filled with yeah but we traded Schenn for type posts....and if it is not for some stud the posts will all be negative.
Is untouchable in my eyes....no never no one is....but he is real close.
What if RW is never fired and continues to employ the same system?
You know what is funny? I believe Colaiacovo would fit with RW's system as good as any defender in the Leafs' line-up. Too bad his foot was out of shape ... and he gets injured so much (plays about 62 games a year).
If RW's system is staying would it be better for Schenn to be traded to a team where he would excell?
If you think about the big picture, wouldn't Schenn excelling somewhere else and the Leafs having a different player excelling under Wilson make more sense for the NHL and humanity ()?
This is just slander. You don't have any semblance of an idea of what their relationship is. This team is barely able to contend for a playoff spot, was seeded 8-10th in the east at the start of season - they are achieving as such and somehow Wilson's a poor coach for it. Your desire for vindication at the last 6 (to 35) years' mediocrity has transformed your opinion into that of a jaded, irrationally emotional and short-sighted fan.
This whole "Wilson "he sucks at coaching because we get lots of goals scored on us" is just so incredibly weak. It fails to account for anything other than we get x amount scored on us so Wilson = bad, Burke = bad.
It just does not work like that.
I disagree, sure on paper the leafs are right where they should be 8th-10th, but let's see where they end up at the end of the season. Look at teams like the Blues, Yotes, or Sens, they're doing much better with much less, why......coaching, those teams have bought in to their respective coach's plan, something that obviously hasn't happen with the Leafs. The Leafs simple don't have the players to play a run and gun style of hockey, like it or not, Wilson's plan hasn't worked, can't work without better players. Wilson, as coach should know this and he should have implemented a system that the Leafs could exceed at. This is simply HIS fault, and by Burke endorsing Wilson's mediocrity with a contract extension, it becomes HIS fault. Doesn't anyone wonder why the Leafs really started to slide after Wilson's extension?
Anything but Gardiner. Schenn/Gunnarsson, 1st round pick, Kadri, and another prospect.
It's a lot to give up but you are getting a sure thing in return. People look far too much into what is going the other way in these deals, and not what we are getting in return. These type of deals where it is 4 or 5 pieces for 1 big piece rarely work out for the team trading the bigger piece, for every Lindros type deal there are 2 deals like the Kovalchuk or Hossa ones in previous years.
Ron Wilson needs to go before we can truly take the next step.I do believe he is being kept due to a strong relationship with Burke. It's not even a question of whether he has the proper tools to coach in this league. He has much experience. It simply comes down to how the players respond to his coaching.He has been in this city 4 years without results. Period. He is by no means the ONLY issue with this team but there are many other qualified options out there that ought to be explored.Brian Burke is simply cheating this organization by not exploring all of these options. I was very dissapointed with the contract extension and thought it was uncalled for given the situation.I believe it was made in case they missed the playoffs in order to ease the pressure of releasing his buddy.I think regardless of this years outcome that Ron will be here atleast to start the next campaign and thats ashame.
The Leafs strength lies in their defensive depth (not how they are employed mind you) but Burke extended 31 year old Liles for 4 years 3.875.
You would think extending Grabovski, 3 years younger and in a position where there is a shortage of available talent at 4 years for 5 million would be an easy decision unless Burke has something else in his pocket.
Re-signing Liles makes sense if you are moving Gunnarsson, and think Gardiner can effortlessly move into the top pairing. Liles is at best a 2nd. pairing defender who you try and keep away from the heavy lifting.
Grabovski is probably their best centerman, so if you aren't willing to sign him there better be something besides a dream of a centerman somewhere in tow.
However, if you are going to move him do it now to get the best asset for him not at the draft when he'll land next to nothing.
I agree with you pretty much.
There are kids on this team right now sitting in the AHL that are better than the product on the ice at current. They may not be seasoned in the NHL but they will learn and have more raw talent as is.
Kadri ~ Frattin ~ Colborne are all shoe in's. Frattin from what I can see is ready to explode on the scene at any time. As soon as that guy finds his finishing touch watch out, he's in the Grabovski category. Colborne and Kadri need some time with Gary Roberts in the gym.
If we go after Nash some of those will not be with us and I also agree with the poster who said we may need to get rid of some of the big contracts.
I disagree, sure on paper the leafs are right where they should be 8th-10th, but let's see where they end up at the end of the season. Look at teams like the Blues, Yotes, or Sens, they're doing much better with much less, why......coaching, those teams have bought in to their respective coach's plan, something that obviously hasn't happen with the Leafs. The Leafs simple don't have the players to play a run and gun style of hockey, like it or not, Wilson's plan hasn't worked, can't work without better players. Wilson, as coach should know this and he should have implemented a system that the Leafs could exceed at. This is simply HIS fault, and by Burke endorsing Wilson's mediocrity with a contract extension, it becomes HIS fault. Doesn't anyone wonder why the Leafs really started to slide after Wilson's extension?
Your argument is predicated on a future scenario(s). Saying we'll see what happens at the end of the season still doesn't substantiate ripping Wilson and Burke for what's happening now....
They certainly have the forwards to play the run/gun, they just need the goaltending. Scoring has won us many games this year, games that would be lost scoring less and favouring a more defensive system. You just don't get anywhere with the "Wilson's fault for not making this team better" argument. What's better than what they are now? Who's to say this isn't already the best case scenario that Wilson has us in? Sorry dude, doesn't fly.
