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02-26-2012, 11:28 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You realize that the NHL leader in ESP plays in a trap? Do you think Stamkos would have scored 200 points playing under Bruce in 2009?

Systems are significant, but I really don't think they account for 50% power outages in Ovechkin and Semin. Semin's recent performance proves that to a degree.
Semin also was playing with Perreault in '09.

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02-26-2012, 11:35 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You realize that the NHL leader in ESP plays in a trap? Do you think Stamkos would have scored 200 points playing under Bruce in 2009?

Systems are significant, but I really don't think they account for 50% power outages in Ovechkin and Semin. Semin's recent performance proves that to a degree.
So if you aren't playing to Malkin's or Stamkos' level you aren't getting it done?

What does Semin have to do to earn the BCF seal of approval besides get traded away?

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02-26-2012, 11:38 AM
  #403
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So if you aren't playing to Malkin's or Stamkos' level you aren't getting it done?

What does Semin have to do to earn the BCF seal of approval besides get traded away?
Incredibly simple. 75 GP, 80 points. At least at a salary of $6.7 million. I don't think anyone would find that unreasonable.

edit: and everyone here knows damn well that he's capable of far more than that.

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02-26-2012, 11:43 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You realize that the NHL leader in ESP plays in a trap? Do you think Stamkos would have scored 200 points playing under Bruce in 2009?

Systems are significant, but I really don't think they account for 50% power outages in Ovechkin and Semin. Semin's recent performance proves that to a degree.
So what do you attribute their lack of production? I think system is a huge factor and it's no coincidence that the production has plummeted after the MTL series. I also think age may be a factor. Stamkos is 22, and although Ovie and Semin are still young at 26 and 27 there's no denying you are more "spry" at 22 then you are once you hit 25. I also think that maybe more than anything, it was unrealistic to expect them to produce at those levels for multiple years. Ovie will be in the HOF and his production his first few seasons are almost unmatched.

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02-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Incredibly simple. 75 GP, 80 points. At least at a salary of $6.7 million. I don't think anyone would find that unreasonable.

edit: and everyone here knows damn well that he's capable of far more than that.
And just so I know the bar what does Ovechkin need to do to earn his salary?

And also if Semin put those numbers you demand up while giving a crappy effort most of the time, neglecting the defensive side of things, and taking plenty of dumb/lazy penalties you would complain to no end so it isn't just the points with him and you know it.

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02-26-2012, 11:47 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Incredibly simple. 75 GP, 80 points. At least at a salary of $6.7 million. I don't think anyone would find that unreasonable.

edit: and everyone here knows damn well that he's capable of far more than that.
People were saying the same **** about Malkin for the past 2 seasons. His production was way down and everyone was saying he'd lost it, he was capable of far better, etc. This year has been a career renaissance for Malkin.

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02-26-2012, 11:49 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
And just so I know the bar what does Ovechkin need to do to earn his salary?

And also if Semin put those numbers you demand up while giving a crappy effort most of the time, neglecting the defensive side of things, and taking plenty of dumb/lazy penalties you would complain to no end so it isn't just the points with him and you know it.
Well put. Semin is developing into a complete player and those not willing to admit it are simply looking for things to bash him on.

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02-26-2012, 11:55 AM
  #408
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Semin has been our best forward, possibly our best player, since Hunter came around. He is scoring at a ppg pace, he has become more physical, he back checks and plays defense. How much more dynamic do you want than a player who can create his own shot, follow his rebound, pick the defender's pocket, and fire a goal 5-hole in front of 4 opposing players?

You do realize that we don't run the same run-and-gun system from 2009 correct? The Caps were shattering scoring records as a team and individually those seasons. It's about time for people to wake up and understand those Caps are done and gone. We are not going to play or win 6-5, 5-3, 7-4 games any more. That's not DH's system, nor was it BB's after the MTL series. Any comparisons to players/systems/results of those Caps are just going to lead to frustration and unfulfilled expectations.

Just don't get the Semin hate recently. I hope we bring him back.
Recently?


Its been here for years now.

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02-26-2012, 12:00 PM
  #409
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Recently?


Its been here for years now.
Yes but before it was warranted...

And yeah it has been pretty steady since he chose to play in Russia instead of playing in the AHL during the lockout.

The curse of Dave Fay...

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02-26-2012, 12:04 PM
  #410
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Being a leafs fan in the last decade would be even worse than a Caps fan. Huge budget, no playoffs.
Living in Toronto my whole life, I've been a fan of both teams since 1982.

I'll enjoy a Championship from one of them.......in my afterlife.

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02-26-2012, 12:06 PM
  #411
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People were saying the same **** about Malkin for the past 2 seasons. His production was way down and everyone was saying he'd lost it, he was capable of far better, etc. This year has been a career renaissance for Malkin.
Well, Malkin was injured for the past two years. Plus, he worked like a dog this past offseason and got a lot of press for it. I don't recall seeing any reports of Semin's offseason training, but feel free to post them if I missed em.

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02-26-2012, 12:08 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Incredibly simple. 75 GP, 80 points. At least at a salary of $6.7 million. I don't think anyone would find that unreasonable.

edit: and everyone here knows damn well that he's capable of far more than that.
No -everyone here does not know that. It's probably much harder to do the things he does than you assume it to be -- which is why most other players can't do it.

Just because he can do things most other players can't -- and just because his talent level sometimes makes it look easy when he does it -- doesn't mean it actually is easy, and that he's not performing to his capabilities unless he's in God mode all the time.

Look at Datsyuk -- his first 4 playoff years: 42 games, 3G, 12A. Yes he took some heat for under-performing, but he was never condemned as a lazy, shiftless floater who doesn't care. People still focused more on what he could do, than on what he wasn't doing. Semin has really never received the benefit of that doubt.

Hopefully, what we're seeing right now is a really talented guy who is maturing and becoming much more of a professional.

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02-26-2012, 12:10 PM
  #413
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I find it amusing that the 2 biggest whipping boys on the team over the years, Semin and Schultz, are the ones who have made the biggest strides under Hunter and Johnson. Yes it took Schultz a little while to figure out what they wanted but still...
Very happy with sarge.. Well relatively. I said at the beginning of his benching that if dh/jj either makes him a player or forces a trade, they've been successful this year.

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02-26-2012, 12:12 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Incredibly simple. 75 GP, 80 points. At least at a salary of $6.7 million. I don't think anyone would find that unreasonable.

edit: and everyone here knows damn well that he's capable of far more than that.
Do you watch the games? Semin is on the second line playing with MP.

If he was on the top line with a healthy Backstrom without OV, that would be highly possible. As it stands, OV is going to be the first option, and hinder is point production.

I also don't think you can ask a consistently 80 point player to play for 6.7 mil.

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02-26-2012, 12:13 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
And just so I know the bar what does Ovechkin need to do to earn his salary?

And also if Semin put those numbers you demand up while giving a crappy effort most of the time, neglecting the defensive side of things, and taking plenty of dumb/lazy penalties you would complain to no end so it isn't just the points with him and you know it.
Is it really that big a deal to demand that players play to their potential. Semin is capable of being a mini Datsyuk -why doesn't he do it? Ovechkin is capable of being a 60 goal Hossa -why doesn't he do it?

Other players work on their weaknesses and develop -Crosby worked his ass off on faceoffs after his rookie year and turned it from a weakness into a strength. Stamkos said that he faded the second half of his rookie year and has been working with Gary Roberts the past two offseasons to ensure that he's in shape. Hell, Ovechkin completely altered his body after a "disappointing" sophomore season to get back to 50 goal form.

Where is that drive in Washington?

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02-26-2012, 12:22 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Do you watch the games? Semin is on the second line playing with MP.

If he was on the top line with a healthy Backstrom without OV, that would be highly possible. As it stands, OV is going to be the first option, and hinder is point production.

I also don't think you can ask a consistently 80 point player to play for 6.7 mil.
semin is not a consistant 80pt player. he doesnt deserve to be paid like one. he is also a player of very hard to replace ability and i would be very cautious about cutting him loose.

since hunter has arrived what i see is a very methodical semin. completely different. i see regular body checks. i see much better decision in the turnover danger zones. at the same time i still see a game breaker that can create offense on his own.

the two on one with hendricks last night was a prime example. good defense. stole the puck. explosion and acceleration. great read on the play. elite level pass. the only reason that wasnt a goal was he passed it to a plugger that took to long to shoot the puck.

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02-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Do you watch the games? Semin is on the second line playing with MP.

If he was on the top line with a healthy Backstrom without OV, that would be highly possible. As it stands, OV is going to be the first option, and hinder is point production.

I also don't think you can ask a consistently 80 point player to play for 6.7 mil.
Don't bring logic into this discussions.

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02-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #418
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blah blah blah...
Are you or are you not happy with Semin's play over the last say 30 games? Not quite a point per game but given his usual ice time and line mates and how the team has been playing as a whole I don't know how realistic that is and his effort is good, his defense is good, and he isn't taking too many bad penalties. So happy or not?

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02-26-2012, 12:25 PM
  #419
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Are you or are you not happy with Semin's play over the last say 30 games? Not quite a point per game but given his usual ice time and line mates and how the team has been playing as a whole I don't know how realistic that is and his effort is good, his defense is good, and he isn't taking too many bad penalties. So happy or not?
Ha. Yeah, I'm very happy with it. Given his 6 year NHL history of giving us glimpses of greatness though, I'm not sold that it's anything but a passing phase.

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02-26-2012, 12:27 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Is it really that big a deal to demand that players play to their potential. Semin is capable of being a mini Datsyuk -why doesn't he do it? Ovechkin is capable of being a 60 goal Hossa -why doesn't he do it?

Other players work on their weaknesses and develop -Crosby worked his ass off on faceoffs after his rookie year and turned it from a weakness into a strength. Stamkos said that he faded the second half of his rookie year and has been working with Gary Roberts the past two offseasons to ensure that he's in shape. Hell, Ovechkin completely altered his body after a "disappointing" sophomore season to get back to 50 goal form.

Where is that drive in Washington?
I think the point folks are making here is that Semin IS evolving as a player. It's still a work in progress but that doesn't mean we can't be glad for the progress the far.

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02-26-2012, 12:29 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Ha. Yeah, I'm very happy with it. Given his 6 year NHL history of giving us glimpses of greatness though, I'm not sold that it's anything but a passing phase.
I 100% understand your feelings.

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02-26-2012, 12:32 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Is it really that big a deal to demand that players play to their potential. Semin is capable of being a mini Datsyuk -why doesn't he do it? Ovechkin is capable of being a 60 goal Hossa -why doesn't he do it?

Other players work on their weaknesses and develop -Crosby worked his ass off on faceoffs after his rookie year and turned it from a weakness into a strength. Stamkos said that he faded the second half of his rookie year and has been working with Gary Roberts the past two offseasons to ensure that he's in shape. Hell, Ovechkin completely altered his body after a "disappointing" sophomore season to get back to 50 goal form.

Where is that drive in Washington?
i think players playing to their potential is far rarer than you want to give credit for.
for every datsyuk there are three yashins. for every datsyuk there is one ovechkin and two semins.

stamkos is where ov was three or four seasons ago. lets see where in his 3 years from now if that team still stinks. btw....look right next to him at Vinny 4.

the losing has hurt ovechkin's pride and his passion. thats probably a character failure. same problem took something out of backstrom who has seemed to recover better.

carlson is having a poor sophmore season. its not unusual. subban is having a far worse sophmore season. you dont think they dont demand value and commitment from their players in montreal?

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02-26-2012, 12:38 PM
  #423
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People were saying the same **** about Malkin for the past 2 seasons. His production was way down and everyone was saying he'd lost it, he was capable of far better, etc. This year has been a career renaissance for Malkin.
I think much of that was because of his knees

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02-26-2012, 12:41 PM
  #424
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Yes but before it was warranted...

And yeah it has been pretty steady since he chose to play in Russia instead of playing in the AHL during the lockout.

The curse of Dave Fay...
I never understood that hate....the guy decides to play in his home country, for more money. The nerve of him

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02-26-2012, 12:44 PM
  #425
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I think the point folks are making here is that Semin IS evolving as a player. It's still a work in progress but that doesn't mean we can't be glad for the progress the far.
Semin is 28 years old...I really doubt that he's still evolving as a player. He is what he is.

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