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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part IX

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02-26-2012, 02:54 AM
  #26
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I've liked Gagner since his draft year. He's still only 23 years old and comes from a great NHL pedigree. Would love that pickup.

You have to give to get. Would be a really good hockey trade to get a guy like this. I would offer Eakin in a heartbeat. Oilers fans want Carlson.

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02-26-2012, 03:19 AM
  #27
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Taking a broad, long-term view of the Caps, the strengths are at wing (Ovie, Semin, Kuz, Brouwer) and D (Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov).

If Semin goes without being replaced or Green gets hurt again then these strengths become question marks.

The weaknesses, long-term are:

Goaltending. Neuvy isn't Lundqvist. Vokes isn't a long-term answer. Holtby has a chance to be. I believe Varlamov was the long-term answer but that ship has sailed. In any case, the goaltending position will have to be addressed.

Center. The Caps have always lacked talent and depth at center. Pivonka and Ridley were not good enough. Carpenter and Gustafsson were not good enough. Old Oates and Juneau were not good enough. A healthy Backstrom is a great enough #1C. But we've got zilch behind him. 2C, 3C and 4C are all without answers.

Team toughness. The Caps have been easy to play against since the mid to late 90's with the exception of when Brashear was around and briefly when knee-seeking Matt Cooke was here. Laich, Schultz, Mojo, Halpern, etc. are a picnic to play against if you are Chara, Lucic, Malkin, Kessel, Giroux. A team has to be intimidating physically and skilled.

Unless the NHL goes full on WWF and orchestrates the winners and losers, it's clear the Caps don't have the horses to win the Cup. I do hope we make the playoffs--we could knock off the Rags and win a couple rounds possibly. But the TDL should be used to address the core weaknesses of the team.

But Ted and McPhee don't approach the team this way. I'm not sure what their plan is or even if they have a plan.


Last edited by Atlas: 02-26-2012 at 03:25 AM.
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02-26-2012, 06:35 AM
  #28
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What was the first source to report Gagner? I know more about his pop Dave.

I see time spent in London, a center with history with a coach here, he does fit the deadline blueprint.

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02-26-2012, 06:38 AM
  #29
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Eklund - it's on the main boards.

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02-26-2012, 06:52 AM
  #30
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Thanks. Every year I struggle with the notion of valid rumor sources. If its that outrageous a rumor i found humor value, like the National Enquirer. I presume Eklund is valid enough to discuss. I for one set a low bar on the source thing since posters propose deals that get discussed. Or hearing an Eklund, posters can do the math work and figure it does it make sense on their own. Long live Dash Trays Twitter

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02-26-2012, 07:00 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Green has played what....~60 games the past two seasons

unwise to just assume all is well with him in terms of health this soon
here we go again. green makes wideman redundant. green didnt make wideman redundant when they got him last season.

no, thats not what i meant. the emergence of orlov makes wideman reduntant.
last night and the recent rangers game is why he doesnt make wideman reduntant.
he is a rookie. trying to hip check kessel at the blue line with no support was an idiot rookie decision. his turnover that lead to the goal against was a lesser mistake.

the caps can get by without wideman. if they feel like they need something else more than they need wideman, i could see him dealt. but make no mistake, he is not a redunant part.

as for eklund...why are we even talking about it? the deadline is monday. nobody ever sniffs out mcphee's moves ahead of time. just wait.
one more day.

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02-26-2012, 07:40 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
here we go again. green makes wideman redundant. green didnt make wideman redundant when they got him last season.

no, thats not what i meant. the emergence of orlov makes wideman reduntant.
last night and the recent rangers game is why he doesnt make wideman reduntant.
he is a rookie. trying to hip check kessel at the blue line with no support was an idiot rookie decision. his turnover that lead to the goal against was a lesser mistake.

the caps can get by without wideman. if they feel like they need something else more than they need wideman, i could see him dealt. but make no mistake, he is not a redunant part.

as for eklund...why are we even talking about it? the deadline is monday. nobody ever sniffs out mcphee's moves ahead of time. just wait.
one more day.
Orlov sees the ice better now than Wideman ever has. Look at his pass to Ovie on Friday that led to Ovie's goal.

Orlov's effort on Kessel was a high risk that failed, Wideman would have backed up and Kessel would have Michaleked him.

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02-26-2012, 07:44 AM
  #33
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I would like to see a list of any moves Caps related modern media era, who was the first to accurately report the rumor. Yes I am phishing for proven sources to scour, not just, "valid" or "accepted" sources. This is the infancy in the grand scheme of modern news reporting. At the end of the day, its a person. Does a person have to be paid to find rumors to be a valid source - maybe here yeah. In real life, hell no. The masses astronomically outnumber your valid source.

Hardly trade rumors coming true, but off the top of my head... I believe random twitter dude Incarcerated Bob was among the first to report BB about to get fired. Hardly difficult to guess, but no other source I know reported it before him. Dash I believe found on a feed Arnott coming here for a 2nd before anyone else. IIRC I got the outbound details of our Corvo trade off of a random twitter account I found and was first to post it here.

Do you like seeing what Eklund has to say, or not? But its not just rumors, its where news is first being reported.

McPhee's moves do get sniffed out, but on the other end. We have gotten a lot of reports on GMGM lately, unprecedented. We don't have to wait until Monday to get insight into what tires he kicks.

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02-26-2012, 07:45 AM
  #34
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Gagner is the type of trade GMGM should be making if he can get him for prospects and UFAs that doesn't involve Carlson, or Alzner.

I'd offer up Wideman, Eakin, and a 2nd. Probably a cond. 1st depending if Wideman resigned there.

Or they can change Wideman with Schultz or Hamrlik.

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02-26-2012, 07:59 AM
  #35
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re. the Edm Journal stuff, usually a collection of stuff held elsewhere; seems like the case again.

Jeremy Rutherford, STL, has already mentioned the possibility of Hamrlik to STL.

NESN talking heads last night were talking about Knuble as a possible option for Boston.


The McPhee comments, say nothing to me and fwiw, Whyno's version from the same time period of tweets last night was more wishy washy as in McPhee isn't showing his hand (now there's a surprise, lol.)


The ice time with Wideman isn't surprising and as Brs noted, he looked like he hurt his hand/wrist, lower arm when he got it jammed when he was checked into the boards.


Tim Leone's description of the Yingst/French post-game meeting after Hershey's loss last night is interesting:

"The growing gravity of Hershey’s situation was exemplified by a lengthy postgame meeting between Bears head coach Mark French and President-GM Doug Yingst, which precluded French from conducting his normal public press conference."

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02-26-2012, 08:05 AM
  #36
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I don't see a gun to GMGM's head on all of this as the TDL approaches. The worse case scenario at least from a fan's standpoint is if he did nothing and stood pat with the current roster. In reality the worse case scenario would be if he moved someone like John Carlson and I just don't see him doing that, at least I'm hoping he doesn't do that.

NHL team's know the Capitals situation and what the team has as far as surplus. They'll approach the Capitals and inquire about them, i.e. Knuble/Hamrlik. No need to take back a roster player that will not help the Capitals immediately or in the future. Get the draft picks that can be parlayed for the player the Capitals need.

As far as surplus players, just look at those who have not gotten a sweater of late or have not started.
- Hamrlik
- Knuble
- Vokoun
- even John Erskine perhaps

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02-26-2012, 08:09 AM
  #37
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Some info. (all in one place) leading up to the trade deadline:

Working Contract Count: out of a maximum of 50 contracts

The Washington Capitals have 49 players under contract; however, Galiev and Anderson qualify for the contract slide due to their age and being assigned to juniors, so really working with 47 contracts.

(Note, Grubauer’s contract will slide, too, unless he plays in 10 NHL games this season.)

Washington Capitals Draft Pick Information

2012 draft picks
1st WAS
1st COL (from Varlamov trade)
2nd (see notes below)
3rd WAS
4th WAS
4th WPG (from Fehr trade)
5th WAS
6th WAS
7th WAS

Notes
- Add either Boston's 2nd in 2012 or Colorado's 2nd in 2013 (Washington's option) from Varlamov trade
- 2nd WAS: Traded to NJD in Arnott trade; now traded to MIN

2013 draft picks
- Rounds 1-6: WAS pick
- 7th: Depends on if they have or have not released Taylor Stefishen’s name from the reserve list; Conditionally traded to Nashville if Caps sign Taylor Stefishen by June 1, 2012 deadline

Capitals Cap Space

With 23 players (out of 23 allowed until post trade deadline) on the active roster as of the time of this post, Backstrom on IR, plus Poti on LTIR, with Green removed from LTIR and counting Aucoin on the active roster, the cap space remaining based on cap hits using Poti LTIR cap space is approximately $344,000; however, CapGeek states that $110,000 of Orlov's bonus is unattainable and that figure is closer to $454,000.

As of now Backstrom is on IR not on LTIR. If Backstrom is put on LTIR, any trades made which use some of that LTIR cap space will limit ability for Backstrom to return during the regular season. Given current lack of updates, assume it is possible they will use his LTIR space, but possible they don’t if they need to leave the room for #19 to return during the regular season. If Backstrom is put on LTIR, his cap hit of $6.7M will provide additional cap space room.

Aucoin can be sent to the AHL without waivers at this time as he has not played 10 NHL games or been on the NHL roster for 30 days since the last time he cleared waivers. (I assume he will be assigned today unless unexpectedly they plan to keep him up for the remainder of the season.)

Post Trade Deadline

During the regular season, even post trade deadline, the cap maximum is still in effect. There is no cap restriction during the playoffs.

Post trade deadline, there is no active roster maximum; as long as a team stays within cap maximum rules, a team can carry more than 23 players on the active roster. There is a restriction on the number of recalls post trade deadline. Four allowed with exceptions for emergency recalls and after the AHL affiliate’s season is over.


Last edited by sk84fun_dc: 02-26-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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02-26-2012, 08:09 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I could see one of the first rounders for Gagner being something that McPhee would consider. While he's not a favorite of mine, Gagner provides center depth with Backstrom out. His age is attractive, and the long-term value is certainly better than the rentals that will be changing hands over the next 36 hours.

For a pick, I like it. For one of the Caps' better young players, I do not like it so much. Kuznetsov, Johansson, Orlov should not be negotiable. I'm not as certain where Eakin is concerned.
i think the oilers want more than a pick/eakin for gagner. what they need is a defenseman who is ready to play in the top four, so i bet they will be asking in the range alzner-orlov. i wouldn't give up any of them for gagner. what we need is someone with more size than gagner on the second center position. i would much more like the caps to look at someone like grabovski or roy. in saying this, gagner would be a good addition. i'm just not sure that he would be worth what we would have to give.

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02-26-2012, 08:09 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Orlov sees the ice better now than Wideman ever has. Look at his pass to Ovie on Friday that led to Ovie's goal.

Orlov's effort on Kessel was a high risk that failed, Wideman would have backed up and Kessel would have Michaleked him.
i am a realist. it happens regularly here were some highly thought of rookie shows up and is already better than most veterans on the team. eric fehr was never better than mike knuble. he never made it.

right now orlov is not better than wideman with or without the puck. he is not better than carlson or alzner or green. he might be better than schultz, but i am not sure about that in a big game. schultz is not used to playing against top nhl talent.

yes orlov is different than those players and brings skills that the other defensemen dont have all or some of. i think in 3 or 4 years orlov may be an elite player. he might be as good as carlson by that time, but i doubt that.

what i am pretty sure of is that i dont want a baby defenseman in his first north american season playing top 4 minutes in the stanley cup playoffs.

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02-26-2012, 08:12 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
Some info. (all in one place) leading up to the trade deadline:

Working Contract Count: out of a maximum of 50 contracts

The Washington Capitals have 49 players under contract; however, Galiev and Anderson qualify for the contract slide due to their age and being assigned to juniors, so really working with 47 contracts.

(Note, Grubauer’s contract will slide, too, unless he plays in 10 NHL games this season.)

Washington Capitals Draft Pick Information

2012 draft picks
1st WAS
1st COL (from Varlamov trade)
2nd (see notes below)
3rd WAS
4th WAS
4th WPG (from Fehr trade)
5th WAS
6th WAS
7th WAS

Notes
- Add either Boston's 2nd in 2012 or Colorado's 2nd in 2013 (Washington's option) from Varlamov trade
- 2nd WAS: Traded to NJD in Arnott trade; now traded to CBJ

2013 draft picks
- Rounds 1-6: WAS pick
- 7th: Depends on if they have or have not released Taylor Stefishen’s name from the reserve list; Conditionally traded to Nashville if Caps sign Taylor Stefishen by June 1, 2012 deadline

Capitals Cap Space

With 23 players (out of 23 allowed until post trade deadline) on the active roster as of the time of this post, Backstrom on IR, plus Poti on LTIR, with Green removed from LTIR and counting Aucoin on the active roster, the cap space remaining based on cap hits using Poti LTIR cap space is approximately $344,000; however, CapGeek states that $110,000 of Orlov's bonus is unattainable and that figure is closer to $454,000.

As of now Backstrom is on IR not on LTIR. If Backstrom is put on LTIR, any trades made which use some of that LTIR cap space will limit ability for Backstrom to return during the regular season. Given current lack of updates, assume it is possible they will use his LTIR space, but possible they don’t if they need to leave the room for #19 to return during the regular season. If Backstrom is put on LTIR, his cap hit of $6.7M will provide additional cap space room.

Aucoin can be sent to the AHL without waivers at this time as he has not played 10 NHL games or been on the NHL roster for 30 days since the last time he cleared waivers. (I assume he will be assigned today unless unexpectedly they plan to keep him up for the remainder of the season.)

Post Trade Deadline

During the regular season, even post trade deadline, the cap maximum is still in effect. There is no cap restriction during the playoffs.

Post trade deadline, there is no active roster maximum; as long as a team stays within cap maximum rules, a team can carry more than 23 players on the active roster. There is a restriction on the number of recalls post trade deadline. Four allowed with exceptions for emergency recalls and after the AHL affiliate’s season is over.
Skate that should be Minnesota I believe as it went in the Zidlicky trade.

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02-26-2012, 08:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
The ice time with Wideman isn't surprising and as Brs noted, he looked like he hurt his hand/wrist, lower arm when he got it jammed when he was checked into the boards.
when wideman was paired with schultz upon schultz return to the lineup his minutes dropped as a result. these were games where orlov's numbers jumped over 20 minutes. games where orlov was playing with hamrlik. i would not read too much into toi right now among the defense.

schultz played 21:00 last night because he was paired with green. meanwhile hamrlik is not even playing

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02-26-2012, 08:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
when wideman was paired with schultz upon schultz return to the lineup his minutes dropped as a result. these were games where orlov's numbers jumped over 20 minutes. games where orlov was playing with hamrlik. i would not read too much into toi right now among the defense.

schultz played 21:00 last night because he was paired with green. meanwhile hamrlik is not even playing
I didn't say to read anything into the TOI, well, other than I do agree with everyone to read plenty into the Hamrlik scratches.

Ref9, yes, sorry I was updating the post quickly and pre-caffeine, oops, but did you have to quote the entire thing.

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02-26-2012, 08:38 AM
  #43
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Not a fan of Gagner--unless you're getting Kane and Kostitsyn along with him.

If Plekanec or Getzlaf aren't possible, I think I like Hodgson the best among center targets going forward.

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02-26-2012, 08:38 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
I didn't say to read anything into the TOI, well, other than I do agree with everyone to read plenty into the Hamrlik scratches.

Ref9, yes, sorry I was updating the post quickly and pre-caffeine, oops, but did you have to quote the entire thing.
Sorry no excuse and I did it post-caffeine at that.

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02-26-2012, 08:42 AM
  #45
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i am a realist. it happens regularly here were some highly thought of rookie shows up and is already better than most veterans on the team. eric fehr was never better than mike knuble. he never made it.

right now orlov is not better than wideman with or without the puck. he is not better than carlson or alzner or green. he might be better than schultz, but i am not sure about that in a big game. schultz is not used to playing against top nhl talent.

yes orlov is different than those players and brings skills that the other defensemen dont have all or some of. i think in 3 or 4 years orlov may be an elite player. he might be as good as carlson by that time, but i doubt that.

what i am pretty sure of is that i dont want a baby defenseman in his first north american season playing top 4 minutes in the stanley cup playoffs.
I understand that we are dealing with a small sample size right now as far as it goes with Orlov, but at the same time aren't you being a bit bias or blinded by Carlson being an American as well as his WJC performance.

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02-26-2012, 09:03 AM
  #46
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I understand that we are dealing with a small sample size right now as far as it goes with Orlov, but at the same time aren't you being a bit bias or blinded by Carlson being an American as well as his WJC performance.
what? show me any evidence of that? just one thing. that was just a stupid comment.

honestly, buddy, there were people here not terribly long ago saying the caps could move green because carlson was there to replace him.
its the same thing as this orlov love.

as to the specifics, ive seen carslon as a strong shutdown pair defenseman. ive seen him do it game after game. he's regressed this season which is the natural process for many. ive never seen orlov do it. orlov shoots harder and hits harder. to date thats all ive seen him do even in flashes as well or better than what carlson does at his best. please dont take this as a shot at orlov. i like him a lot. i just dont drool over rookies and jump to conclusions like too many here do.


Last edited by txpd: 02-26-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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02-26-2012, 09:09 AM
  #47
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what? show me any evidence of that? just one thing. that was just a stupid comment.
When you respond accordingly you're demonstrating that you're having trouble refuting my message.

Based on current play, I'd rather Orlov playing top 4 defenseman minutes than Carlson.

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02-26-2012, 09:23 AM
  #48
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When you respond accordingly you're demonstrating that you're having trouble refuting my message.

Based on current play, I'd rather Orlov playing top 4 defenseman minutes than Carlson.
you realize you are asking me to prove a negative. please, show me anything that ive written that is either pro american players or anti russian?

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02-26-2012, 09:34 AM
  #49
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I'd be interested in Gagner, but if the price was Alzner, Carlson, or Orlov... absolutely not. Easily.

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02-26-2012, 09:37 AM
  #50
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Well, for one, you would have to change your handle again, but beyond that, ya.

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